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RE: treason? - 3/1/2013 10:36:09 AM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

Bradley Manning pleads guilty to misusing classified data in WikiLeaks case


(Reuters) - The U.S. Army private accused of providing diplomatic cables and other secret documents to the WikiLeaks website pleaded guilty on Thursday to misusing classified material, but denied the most serious charge in the case, aiding the enemy.

Source


My opinion is that this was treason, and should have been charged as such.



since billy ole boy clinton was not charged with treason for selling nuke plans to china reconcile why should this guy be charged?

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RE: treason? - 3/1/2013 10:56:19 AM   
Nosathro


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


The point of the link was that the White House did not leak Plame's name.

However, "when the former ambassador [Wilson] spoke to Committee staff, his description of his findings differed from the DO intelligence report and his account of information provided to him by the CIA differed from the CIA officials' accounts in some respects."

It gets deeper. But if you want to pursue it, the [redacted] documentation is here, and a full overview of U.S. intelligence regarding Iraq's nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons capabilities and delivery systems is here.

K.


Still nothing you provided proves your claim, "the Senate Intelligence Committee concluded that nearly everything Wilson wrote or said about Bush, Cheney, Iraq, and his own trip to Africa was untrue. Wilson was a fraud".

I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby - Chief of Staff, Office of the Vice President. I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, Vice President Cheney's top aide and Assistant to the President during the administration of President George W. Bush. was convicted of two counts of perjury, two counts of making false statements to federal investigators, and one count of obstruction of justice.
Libby resigned all three government positions immediately after the indictment was announced and was upon conviction disbarred later the disbarring was made permanent. Now are you saying that being top Aide to the VP has nothing to do with the White House?

It is true that Saddam Hussein did have and use chemical weapons but no nuclear weapons or any facilities making nuclear weapons were found. The last report indicates Saddam Hussein had abounded his nuclear weapons project in 1991. This is proof Wilsons' report was correct.

http://larouchepub.com/other/2005/3228rove_cheney_plame.html

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2004-10-06-wmd_x.htm


< Message edited by Nosathro -- 3/1/2013 11:01:08 AM >

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RE: treason? - 3/1/2013 11:01:57 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

Libby resigned all three government positions immediately after the indictment was announced and was upon conviction disbarred later the disbarring was made permanent. Now are you saying that being top Aide to the VP has nothing to do with the White House?

You need to stop putting off that appointment.

K.

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RE: treason? - 3/1/2013 11:02:29 AM   
Owner59


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RE: treason? - 3/1/2013 11:05:28 AM   
Nosathro


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

Libby resigned all three government positions immediately after the indictment was announced and was upon conviction disbarred later the disbarring was made permanent. Now are you saying that being top Aide to the VP has nothing to do with the White House?

You need to stop putting off that appointment.

K.


Your the one who is delusional. At least when it come to the truth, the kind you can not stand.

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RE: treason? - 3/1/2013 11:13:32 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

Your the one who is delusional. At least when it come to the truth, the kind you can not stand.

Heh. Freud would be amused. I never said you were delusional.

K.

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RE: treason? - 3/1/2013 11:18:15 AM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		My vote...He should be imprisoned for life. He betrayed his fellow soldiers putting them at risk and his nation.

He could have protested in any way he liked without divulging entrusted information.

Butch

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RE: treason? - 3/1/2013 11:29:55 AM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


The point of the link was that the White House did not leak Plame's name.

However, "when the former ambassador [Wilson] spoke to Committee staff, his description of his findings differed from the DO intelligence report and his account of information provided to him by the CIA differed from the CIA officials' accounts in some respects."

It gets deeper. But if you want to pursue it, the [redacted] documentation is here, and a full overview of U.S. intelligence regarding Iraq's nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons capabilities and delivery systems is here.

K.


Still nothing you provided proves your claim, "the Senate Intelligence Committee concluded that nearly everything Wilson wrote or said about Bush, Cheney, Iraq, and his own trip to Africa was untrue. Wilson was a fraud".

I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby - Chief of Staff, Office of the Vice President. I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, Vice President Cheney's top aide and Assistant to the President during the administration of President George W. Bush. was convicted of two counts of perjury, two counts of making false statements to federal investigators, and one count of obstruction of justice.
Libby resigned all three government positions immediately after the indictment was announced and was upon conviction disbarred later the disbarring was made permanent. Now are you saying that being top Aide to the VP has nothing to do with the White House?

It is true that Saddam Hussein did have and use chemical weapons but no nuclear weapons or any facilities making nuclear weapons were found. The last report indicates Saddam Hussein had abounded his nuclear weapons project in 1991. This is proof Wilsons' report was correct.

http://larouchepub.com/other/2005/3228rove_cheney_plame.html

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2004-10-06-wmd_x.htm


I recommend to ignore the whole case and all its ramifications. It may be all true. On the other hand - though I have no indication for such whatsoever - there may be various rats buried and what we see is a mixture of truths, half-truths, half-lies and lies.

< Message edited by Rule -- 3/1/2013 11:30:53 AM >

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RE: treason? - 3/1/2013 11:30:23 AM   
Nosathro


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

Your the one who is delusional. At least when it come to the truth, the kind you can not stand.

Heh. Freud would be amused. I never said you were delusional.

K.


Freud did not work much with delusions his work centers around the Id and developmental stages in a person. I am more of a Carl Jung type.

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RE: treason? - 3/1/2013 12:10:57 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

Freud did not work much with delusions...

Freud took an interest in delusions and projection from the start of his work, as they were central to his study of paranoia, which he viewed in terms of its classic forms: delusions of persecution, erotomania, jealous delusions, and megalomania; one or all of which may apply here.

K.

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RE: treason? - 3/1/2013 1:03:35 PM   
Nosathro


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

Freud did not work much with delusions...

Freud took an interest in delusions and projection from the start of his work, as they were central to his study of paranoia, which he viewed in terms of its classic forms: delusions of persecution, erotomania, jealous delusions, and megalomania; one or all of which may apply here.

K.


I would say in your case megalomania.

As to Freud, he was neurologist, graduating from the Medical school in Vienna, recieving his MD in 1881. His early studies were on the brain specifically medulla oblongate and he was involved in debates on aphasia. Freud further did research in cerebral palsy, better know as cerebral paralysis. Freud laster worked following Josef Breuer, who had a patient, a woman, who Breuer later diagnosis as hysterical. The woman was complaining about visual disorder, paralysis and contractures of the limb. In 1890 Freud formed a treatment called analytic technique of interpretation and reconstruction, Freud believed that the unconscious was central to the theory of reprssion. Freud continued to develop his theory on the unconscious in dream interpretation and later psychosexual development. Freud in developing the human psyche purposed the Id, Ego and Super-Ego This theory by Freud explained how humans develop by conflict between the life drive and death drive in the end Freud psychoanalytic system was a method to help effect behavioral changes in patients. He did not study paranoia, delusions of persecution, erotomania, jealous delusions or megalomania as you so falsely claim.

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RE: treason? - 3/1/2013 2:31:06 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

I would say in your case megalomania...

He did not study paranoia, delusions of persecution, erotomania, jealous delusions or megalomania as you so falsely claim.


Freudian Formulas of Paranoia

Source: International Dictionary of Psychoanalysis

Now we have the genuine blockbuster …hefty volumes of a true encyclopedia of psychoanalysis … a monumental contribution to the analytic literature. ~International Journal of Psychoanalysis (2003; on the original French edition)

Online Index

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 3/1/2013 2:36:44 PM >

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RE: treason? - 3/1/2013 3:11:19 PM   
Nosathro


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From: Orange County, California
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

I would say in your case megalomania...

He did not study paranoia, delusions of persecution, erotomania, jealous delusions or megalomania as you so falsely claim.


Freudian Formulas of Paranoia

Source: International Dictionary of Psychoanalysis

Now we have the genuine blockbuster …hefty volumes of a true encyclopedia of psychoanalysis … a monumental contribution to the analytic literature. ~International Journal of Psychoanalysis (2003; on the original French edition)

Online Index

K.


Gee a 2003 book on Psychoanalysis...Freud died on September 23, 1939. For example the study of paranoia was first done in 1863 by Kalhbaum he coined there term paranoia, remember Freud did not graduate until 1881. Kalhbaum was followed by Krafft-Ebing in 1869, then Kruger in 1917, no mention of Freud and no need to go on. You are simply basing your proof on a book on various treat methods.

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RE: treason? - 3/1/2013 3:47:36 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RacerJim

The very specific meaning of treason is aiding and abetting or giving aid and comfort to the enemy. Anyone who doesn't believe what Pvt Manning did rises to the level of treason is themselves guilty of treason.



So having a view about treason that you dont agree with is treason itself......... Good luck with that shit.

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RE: treason? - 3/1/2013 4:17:44 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

Gee a 2003 book on Psychoanalysis... Freud died on September 23, 1939. For example the study of paranoia was first done in 1863 by Kalhbaum [sic] he coined there term paranoia, remember Freud did not graduate until 1881. Kalhbaum [sic] was followed by Krafft-Ebing in 1869, then Kruger in 1917, no mention of Freud and no need to go on. You are simply basing your proof on a book on various treat methods.

Kahlbaum did not "coin" the word paranoia. It's Greek, ferchrissake.

In Greek literature 'paranoia' and the verb paranoeo were used as loosely as we are accustomed to use 'crazy' or 'out of his mind'. They occur in Euripides, Aeschylus, Aristophanes, Aristotle, and Plato. Hippocrates applies 'paranoia' to the delirium of high fever; several other writers put it in a context where it denotes senile deterioration, justifying action by the patient's son, according to Attic law. However, 'paranoia' did not always refer to madness or dementia, or other severe disturbance, but sometimes meant 'thinking amiss', 'going astray', 'folly'. In any case it was not a technical term, as melancholia was, and was not preserved in medical writings. Its revival in the 18th century, to meet classificatory needs, was therefore practically a re-birth. This was effected by Boissier de Sauvages.

Not Kahlbaum, whose name you can't even fucking spell.

Lewis, A., "Paranoia and paranoid: a historical perspective," Psychological Medicine, 1970

K.

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RE: treason? - 3/1/2013 6:54:10 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: RacerJim

The very specific meaning of treason is aiding and abetting or giving aid and comfort to the enemy. Anyone who doesn't believe what Pvt Manning did rises to the level of treason is themselves guilty of treason.



So having a view about treason that you dont agree with is treason itself......... Good luck with that shit.




You should be shot for that opinion, PS.

Thousands and thousands of people should be shot. It's the only answer.



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RE: treason? - 3/1/2013 7:21:54 PM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
quote:

ORIGINAL: RacerJim
The very specific meaning of treason is aiding and abetting or giving aid and comfort to the enemy. Anyone who doesn't believe what Pvt Manning did rises to the level of treason is themselves guilty of treason.

So having a view about treason that you dont agree with is treason itself......... Good luck with that shit.

You should be shot for that opinion, PS.
Thousands and thousands of people should be shot. It's the only answer.


No, that's not a good solution. Our gun homicides would go up. And, everyone knows we can't have that happening!


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Profile   Post #: 77
RE: treason? - 3/2/2013 4:37:04 AM   
leonine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
quote:

ORIGINAL: RacerJim
The very specific meaning of treason is aiding and abetting or giving aid and comfort to the enemy. Anyone who doesn't believe what Pvt Manning did rises to the level of treason is themselves guilty of treason.

So having a view about treason that you dont agree with is treason itself......... Good luck with that shit.

You should be shot for that opinion, PS.
Thousands and thousands of people should be shot. It's the only answer.


No, that's not a good solution. Our gun homicides would go up. And, everyone knows we can't have that happening!


If it's done by the authorities it's not gun homicides, it's zero tolerance policing.

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It's there I'm gonna stay, until there comes a day when this old world starts a-changing for the good.
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Profile   Post #: 78
RE: treason? - 3/2/2013 5:08:24 AM   
leonine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

He could have protested in any way he liked without divulging entrusted information.


Picture this. He goes to a journo and says "Bad stuff is happening that I believe amounts to war crimes, I have all the evidence, but I can't show you any of it."

If he wasn't brushed off, he would have either been quoted as an anonymous source, which would have amounted to nothing in terms of news. Or he would have gone public as a witness, which would have ended his career in the services but achieved very little, since it would have been his word against the Pentagon's Department of Official Denials.

He chose the most risky and most effective option, which exposed everything he was concerned about, but could and did leave him where he is now. (It could, in theory, have left him facing a firing squad, a possibility which must have crossed his mind.)

People who take big risks and lose big in the service of what they believe is right are either heroes or crazy traitors, depending on whether or not you believe they were right. And that's a matter of opinion which no amount of debate can settle.

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Gonna pack in my hand, pick up on a piece of land and build myself a cabin in the woods.
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RE: treason? - 3/2/2013 5:17:20 AM   
leonine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
He betrayed his fellow soldiers putting them at risk and his nation.

And this is why so much bad practice goes unchallenged in tight groups like the Army and the police. People are loyal to their comrades, through training and experience, and that's a necessary part of the system. But sometimes it leads them to put that loyalty ahead of law, ethics and the greater good. The mavericks who expose wrongdoing by their comrades are doing a vitally necessary thing, but they are usually despised for it. Or less pedantically, everybody hates a snitch.

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Gonna pack in my hand, pick up on a piece of land and build myself a cabin in the woods.
It's there I'm gonna stay, until there comes a day when this old world starts a-changing for the good.
- James Taylor

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Profile   Post #: 80
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