quote:

This. I think it's blatantly obvious that my stated view -- "the existing US government is no longer legitimate because it has blatantly violated the constitution and does not even pretend to represent the interests of any but it's wealthiest donors/citizens" is certainly going down the treason path. It may or may not be fully there yet but it's certainly on that path. I'm cool with that. I bow blindly to no man or government.

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

Relativly small groups, THAT KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING, could paralize order in the US. Tanks, and fighter jets
are only effective if the military is willing to kill everybody and destroy everything in an area. That won't happen in the US.

Ya think the military will just give up? Is that what you think? You and Tim McVeigh and Terry Nichols?

Delusional [8|]

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

My only point was that armed rebellion against the government is just that - armed rebellion against the government. It's not against "the nation," since that would imply the people as a whole. Other than that, these aforementioned groups may be criminals, terrorists, insurrectionists (if/when they ever do anything), but I don't think their nationality would suddenly change, even under those circumstances. They'd still be Americans.

I'll go with Mr Lincoln's definition rather than your specious parsing of the words:

"that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom— and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."

We have a REPRESENTATIVE government. The government is us. Like it or not.

quote:


If people are unhappy with the Nation's government there are peaceful remedies at hand. We call it the Vote.

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

This. I think it's blatantly obvious that my stated view -- "the existing US government is no longer legitimate because it has blatantly violated the constitution and does not even pretend to represent the interests of any but it's wealthiest donors/citizens" is certainly going down the treason path. It may or may not be fully there yet but it's certainly on that path. I'm cool with that. I bow blindly to no man or government.

How can a government commit treason against itself? Where do you see that in the Constitution? Treason has a legal definition, Jeff. Let google be your friend.

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

This. I think it's blatantly obvious that my stated view -- "the existing US government is no longer legitimate because it has blatantly violated the constitution and does not even pretend to represent the interests of any but it's wealthiest donors/citizens" is certainly going down the treason path. It may or may not be fully there yet but it's certainly on that path. I'm cool with that. I bow blindly to no man or government.

How can a government commit treason against itself? Where do you see that in the Constitution? Treason has a legal definition, Jeff. Let google be your friend.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

This. I think it's blatantly obvious that my stated view -- "the existing US government is no longer legitimate because it has blatantly violated the constitution and does not even pretend to represent the interests of any but it's wealthiest donors/citizens" is certainly going down the treason path. It may or may not be fully there yet but it's certainly on that path. I'm cool with that. I bow blindly to no man or government.

How can a government commit treason against itself? Where do you see that in the Constitution? Treason has a legal definition, Jeff. Let google be your friend.

You don't think it's possible for government officials to violate their oath to the Constitution and betray the public trust? Do you think the government is above the law?

quote:

ORIGINAL: papassion

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

Relativly small groups, THAT KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING, could paralize order in the US. Tanks, and fighter jets
are only effective if the military is willing to kill everybody and destroy everything in an area. That won't happen in the US.

Ya think the military will just give up? Is that what you think? You and Tim McVeigh and Terry Nichols?

Delusional [8|]

You have a dilusional view of what the military can do. This thread is about hate and extremism groups. If the military could stop it, why hasen't it? Are U saying hate and extreemism groups have all been stamped out by the military?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63

What is our government doing to restore the trust of its people?

Well for one thing, it's purchasing 2,700 Mine Resistant Armor Protected Vehicles for the Department of Homeland Security.

[image]http://2-ps.googleusercontent.com/h/www.thegatewaypundit.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/488x325xhomeland-security-mrap.jpg.pagespeed.ic.tN6C46J1W4.jpg[/image]

K.

quote:

To bad you dont actually go to the source of the story to find the truth.

Department of Homeland security had less than fifty of these vehicles formerly in the possession of the military turned over for their special response teams which are a part of ICE.

The contract in question is FOR RELEASE AT 5 p.m. ET No. 015-12 January 09, 2012

Infowars, prisonplanet et. al are not your goto sources for the truth.

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

Whoa . . .step back a minute. Neither the military, the FBI, nor local law enforcement can abridge the right of peaceful assembly to redress grievances.

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

The civil war was an imperialist move to fund another round of bonds, loans arent free of charge you know and contracts arent "lawfully proven" by greater force (american style) either.

Oh, posh!

quote:

Finally tell me how a living man can take up arms against an abstract entity? You do understand the difference right?

Ask your compatriot Terry Nichols. Take care you don't get a room next to his.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

And how is yours a cogent answer to my statement? An armed rebellion against the Nation forfeits citizenship.

I think they're just against the government, not the nation as a whole.

Wasn't it Talleyrand who said that "treason is only a matter of dates"?

Is a nation not defined by its government?

To take up arms against your government, are you not also taking up arms against the nation?
Our founding fathers knew they were committing treason against England when they took up arms. What would be different about a 'patriot group' taking up arms today?

I say the same thing about the secessionists.
They are violatiing the very Pledge of Allegiance that they bemoan the fact every time is isn't recited in school

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Yup, one more opportunity for the foil hat crowd to rant on about non-existent government conspiracies to enslave the country.

When it was Clinton, he was setting up FEMA detention camps.

Then Bush came along and He was setting up FEMA detention camps.

Now its Obama, and he is setting up FEMA detention camps and getting Homeland Security and the military to round everyone up.

The goal, for the UN to take over as a single world government run by the Illuminati and the NWO.

And who is gaining out of this bullshit? Infowars and prisonplanet, they are getting shitloads of money from advertisers because of the frequency of hits, then there is Glenn Beck and Alex Jones.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Yup, one more opportunity for the foil hat crowd to rant on about non-existent government conspiracies to enslave the country.

When it was Clinton, he was setting up FEMA detention camps.

Then Bush came along and He was setting up FEMA detention camps.

Now its Obama, and he is setting up FEMA detention camps and getting Homeland Security and the military to round everyone up.

The goal, for the UN to take over as a single world government run by the Illuminati and the NWO.

And who is gaining out of this bullshit? Infowars and prisonplanet, they are getting shitloads of money from advertisers because of the frequency of hits, then there is Glenn Beck and Alex Jones.

CSPAN: Rep Haller Explains the necessity and Calls for passing the FEMA camps bill

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne




CSPAN: Rep Haller Explains the necessity and Calls for passing the FEMA camps bill

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Yup, one more opportunity for the foil hat crowd to rant on about non-existent government conspiracies to enslave the country.

When it was Clinton, he was setting up FEMA detention camps.

Then Bush came along and He was setting up FEMA detention camps.

Now its Obama, and he is setting up FEMA detention camps and getting Homeland Security and the military to round everyone up.

The goal, for the UN to take over as a single world government run by the Illuminati and the NWO.

And who is gaining out of this bullshit? Infowars and prisonplanet, they are getting shitloads of money from advertisers because of the frequency of hits, then there is Glenn Beck and Alex Jones.

CSPAN: Rep Haller Explains the necessity and Calls for passing the FEMA camps bill

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

This. I think it's blatantly obvious that my stated view -- "the existing US government is no longer legitimate because it has blatantly violated the constitution and does not even pretend to represent the interests of any but it's wealthiest donors/citizens" is certainly going down the treason path. It may or may not be fully there yet but it's certainly on that path. I'm cool with that. I bow blindly to no man or government.

How can a government commit treason against itself? Where do you see that in the Constitution? Treason has a legal definition, Jeff. Let google be your friend.

You don't think it's possible for government officials to violate their oath to the Constitution and betray the public trust? Do you think the government is above the law?

Your position is shifting a bit. First you said: the existing US government is no longer legitimate because it has blatantly violated the Constitution

quote:


Now you wonder if government officials can't violate their oath and betray the public trust.

Neither meets the definition of Treason as established in Article Three of the US Constitution:

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.

Seems to me there is a distinction between Treason and disatisfaction with government policies, wouldn't you say?