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RE: Age appropriate chores - 3/8/2013 7:00:14 AM   
ComeNserveMeNow


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(in reply to Notsweet)
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RE: Age appropriate chores - 3/8/2013 7:02:18 AM   
UllrsIshtar


Posts: 3693
Joined: 7/28/2012
Status: offline 		I keep doing that... I'm not used to having another account logged in on this computer.
______________

quote:

ORIGINAL: Notsweet

Ok, maybe I was harsh. For that I apologize.



quote:

ORIGINAL: Notsweet

On this, I don't apologize, and I don't bend. Been there. Seen it. Know what happens.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Notsweet

I apologize if I sounded harsh, and since I have such a visceral reaction, I know I did.

~

And LaT....thanks for your critique, but I stand by my words.






quote:

ORIGINAL: Notsweet

Just a question.

How many kids have YOU raised?



You know... I haven't finished raising these two by any means, but I think I'll take my parenting advice from individuals who can muster up the self-control to communicate like adults by their mid 50s.

Something about setting myself the correct role models as a parent...

_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 82
RE: Age appropriate chores - 3/8/2013 7:24:46 AM   
UllrsIshtar


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Notsweet
How about the adults behave like adults, and keep the home a safe place while the kids are there? Because it's hard? Because they don't like each other?



How about my husband making sure the kids had a place on this Earth where their care didn't come AFTER that of a couple dozen animals?
How about making a place for them where "clean" clothes aren't something you dig out of a pile on the floor that may have been used as a litter box?
How about making a place for them where food isn't routinely left to rot in bowls in the living room because the leftover meal wasn't brought to the kitchen?
How about making a place for them where the hoard/collection (that's half eaten by mice) doesn't come before their needs, and money is allocated to take care of their stuff before it's used to buy more crap?
How about making a place for them where they can observe that "being late" isn't the standard default time you arrive at?
How about making a place for them where there are 2 parental figures who actively try to spend time on them and teach them things, instead of having one parental figure too exhausted to have time for them by trying to keep up with the mess the other one made, and the other one is too busy making a mess to have time for them and tells them to go away and leave her alone all day?
How about making a place for them where they are taught to do things for themselves, instead of being fed in a highchair with a spoon at age 4?
How about the fact that with my husband's salary out of the equation their mother now has 50% less animals to put before the kids?
How about the fact that for whatever reason, their mother (with the help of her new husband) is now able to make more progress, and keep the house cleaner than she did in the 10 years spend with my husband?

I could keep going but how about this one:

How about that BECAUSE he left, they now have A normal, safe, stable, caring, functional home to go to at least half of the time?

_____________________________

I can be your whore
I am the dirt you created
I am your sinner
And your whore
But let me tell you something baby
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Profile   Post #: 83
RE: Age appropriate chores - 3/8/2013 7:32:35 AM   
Notsweet


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quote:

ORIGINAL: searching4mysir


And if there is physical, emotional or sexual abuse in the home? Still think they should stay together "for the kids"? How is THAT healthy for them? Newsflash, it isn't, and if BOTH parents don't want to be there for the kids, it is healthier for ALL if they split.


In the case of abuse, of course it's best to leave.
If both parents "don't want to be there?" Well, gee. It's an eighteen year contract.

It's not about YOUR kids, YOUR possessions. It's about the people those kids become, the people you have signed on to make. This people-making business is a hard job, and each part you take on costs 18 years. Don't want to put your "don't want to be there" to the side until you finish the job? Don't look for an "oh how brave" from me. I speak from years of regret--my own, and hundreds of others that I have seen.

(in reply to searching4mysir)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: Age appropriate chores - 3/8/2013 7:39:41 AM   
Notsweet


Posts: 873
Joined: 6/11/2006
Status: offline 		Yes. Everyone who ever gets a divorce is doing it because the ex is a monster, they're abused, right?

Not because they want different sex.
Not because they don't want to go to counselling.
Not because they want a different partner.

No. Everyone's a monster. On BOTH sides. Everyone has crucial, life-saving reasons for divorce.

Except that's not true, but what IS true is that children who live with two parents do better in school, have more resources, and are better adjusted. Would you like me to list study after study after study? I'll be happy to, if you'll promise to look at them.

(And by the way, if that's the situation that they are in at their mothers, is there anything that can be done to have them removed from that home? Sometimes you find resources in the strangest places.)

< Message edited by Notsweet -- 3/8/2013 7:41:17 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 85
RE: Age appropriate chores - 3/8/2013 8:05:19 AM   
UllrsIshtar


Posts: 3693
Joined: 7/28/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Notsweet

(And by the way, if that's the situation that they are in at their mothers, is there anything that can be done to have them removed from that home? Sometimes you find resources in the strangest places.)


I've answered that several times now...

Seriously, if you're not actually going to bother reading the tread before flying of the handle, I wouldn't mind it at all if you'd "get off this tread" like you promised you where going to in your second post...

_____________________________

I can be your whore
I am the dirt you created
I am your sinner
And your whore
But let me tell you something baby
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Profile   Post #: 86
RE: Age appropriate chores - 3/8/2013 8:11:23 AM   
Whippedboy


Posts: 61
Joined: 10/24/2004
Status: offline 		Do you ever engage him any other time than when your telling him to do chores? Do you try to make them fun? Interesting? MAybe find the ones he CAN do well or is interested and reward him for that. Then add the others. What his sister can or can't do does not mean shit. She's a year and a half older. And even if they were the same age, who cares? Don't compare siblings, they will both end up hating you and each other. I really think you need to educate yourself on the basics of CHILD development and how they learn. Their concept of time is not the same. I mean shit, this kid has been on the earth 5 years and he's supposed to be able to do all this shit? C'mon... Staring off, not responding is NOT even close to odd at this age. Remeber, EVERYTHING is new to him. Virtually everything he says and does tqkes a concious effort. If he's staring a tthe ceiling he's probably bored as shit from doing chores all day.
You know what they say--Ritalin, second only to dite and exercise for kids!
Stop focusing on what he can't do and try to ENGAGE him in what he can.
HE will come around.

(in reply to UllrsIshtar)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: Age appropriate chores - 3/8/2013 8:34:14 AM   
UllrsIshtar


Posts: 3693
Joined: 7/28/2012
Status: offline 		Great job on the selective reading...


quote:

ORIGINAL: Whippedboy

Do you ever engage him any other time than when your telling him to do chores?



As I've stated before, yes... a lot.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Whippedboy

Do you try to make them fun?



Yes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Whippedboy

Interesting?



Yes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Whippedboy

MAybe find the ones he CAN do well or is interested and reward him for that. Then add the others.



Again, the issue ISN'T that he can't do these chores. He can.
He's physically, mentally, and emotionally able to do these chores, do them well, do them easily, and has fun doing them.
What the issue is is that he can't remember them, is inconsistent (as in, can do a super complex thing perfectly one minute like unload and load the entire dishwasher; but the next second can't remember to pull his pants down before he sits down on the potty).

I can't "perfect one chores and then add others" with him... if I'd do that, he wouldn't be able/allowed to dress himself, go to the toilet by himself, put his own shoes on, brush his own teeth, wash his own hands, or eat by himself. Because these are ALL things that one minute he's mastered, and the next minute he doesn't remember the steps on how to accomplish them.

Do you seriously think that I just woke up one day and decided to give him all that stuff to do from one minute to the next, to then start complaining he couldn't do them? Have you ever taught a 4 year old to do anything? These chores HAVE been added slowly, while we worked on learning to do one right, nothing else got added. He's got these down easily -WHEN he focusses- but he can't do even the simplest thing for himself when he doesn't focus.

And I reward him constantly. He gets praise consistently for every tine little small thing he does right. I must praise him at least 50 times a day... if not 10x that.

My question, from the very start, was if I should expect some small degree of consistency and focus of him by this age, or if it's perfectly normal for him to fluctuate so much on what he can and can't do.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Whippedboy

What his sister can or can't do does not mean shit. She's a year and a half older. And even if they were the same age, who cares? Don't compare siblings, they will both end up hating you and each other.



I don't compare siblings.
I specifically said I can't compare the two because I know his sister is so much ahead for her age.

And even IF I would compare them, I specifically mentioned that she does WAY more than him right now, and that she could do this stuff AT HIS AGE (but that that doesn't mean anything BECAUSE she's so much ahead).

And why the hell would they both end up hating each other or me because I'm trying to figure out what is and isn't normal 5 year old behavior from him by looking at the only 5 year old I've been in close contact with?
Are you seriously suggesting that because I'm trying to figure out if I should be worried about him they'll both end up hating me?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Whippedboy

I really think you need to educate yourself on the basics of CHILD development and how they learn.



And the fact I made this tread is evidence of my unwillingness to learn about child development... right?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Whippedboy

If he's staring a tthe ceiling he's probably bored as shit from doing chores all day.



He doesn't do chores all day.

He spends probably an hour a day total on self-care stuff like brushing his teeth and getting dressed, and half an hour to an hour a day maximum doing communal chores.

And he's staring at the ceiling regardless of subject, or who is talking to him, or in what context.
You can ask him about going to the zoo and he'll be so excited he's jumping up and down whilst talking to you... while staring at the ceiling...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Whippedboy

Stop focusing on what he can't do and try to ENGAGE him in what he can.



I'm not focusing on what he can't do... I'm focussing on whether or not what he can't do is a problem that I need to address and get him HELP for, or if I've got nothing to worry about and he's doing just fine.

< Message edited by UllrsIshtar -- 3/8/2013 8:46:20 AM >

_____________________________

I can be your whore
I am the dirt you created
I am your sinner
And your whore
But let me tell you something baby
You love me for everything you hate me for

(in reply to Whippedboy)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Age appropriate chores - 3/8/2013 8:36:47 AM   
TheLilSquaw


Posts: 2340
Joined: 10/24/2012
From: Middle River, MD
Status: offline 		Fast reply, for the most part since I haven't read all of this.

OP,
My children are now 18 and 15. Plus I taught pre-k for years. Teaching that age group was my first love.

On a personal level, MY children have always had chores. Some would say A LOT of chores. Which my ex mother in-law didn't agree with. However, again my JOB as a parent is to teach them to be productive adults. I also think that chores teach responsibility and to respect things.

My son has always loved it even to this day, my daughter well she wasn't big on them. Hated them in-fact. I had to take different approached with each of my children regarding chores.

As a pre-k teacher my job was to teach them basic live skills, social skills, and to give them an educational foundation. Learning those skills should be made FUN at that age and they will need reminders.

My personal favorite is a visual picture schedule and expectation chart which included rewards and punishments. I used this not only with my own children but in the classroom as well. I still have a chores chart and as I said my son is now 15. This is a visual reminder to him of what he has to do. Granted he rarely needs it but it's there.

If he seems to not be able to concentrate for long periods on one thing, IMO that is age appropriate. Simply make the chores or activities shorter and be able to redirect him and if needed have him come back to it. Rotate longer chores or activities if you will.

As far as flushing the toilet.
eh... I know grown folks that don't remember to flush every time they pee. How about a fun chart or picture reminder in the bathroom to flush and wash hands?


ETA: Perhaps this was asked and answered but since it is a co-parenting situation (shared custody). Are both households in agreement with how things should be done so there isn't confusion for him?





< Message edited by TheLilSquaw -- 3/8/2013 8:44:52 AM >

_____________________________

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(in reply to UllrsIshtar)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Age appropriate chores - 3/8/2013 8:37:34 AM   
angelikaJ


Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Notsweet

Having been on every single side (stepdaughter, stepmother, child of a broken home and having been a parent who split) and having innumerable pieces of both empirical AND anecdotal evidence...I disagree.

You know those things on which you are vehement, and cannot be moved, because you saw it? This one is mine. I'll probably fight it to the death, but there's this:

Every single person I know or have ever known who has come from a broken home has done worse in life than the ones who had two parents in the home.

People get married and divorced with way too much frequency, and I'm one of them.

Eighteen years is NOT a long time. The average person gets about three and a half of them. If someone does not want to spend a third of their life years putting themselves and their desires aside, you can't really blame them, but once you have a kid, you give up those 18 years.

I apologize if I sounded harsh, and since I have such a visceral reaction, I know I did. But simple common sense says that a kid is better off in a house with two adults. Gay, straight, rich, poor--goes across all lines.

Now are there conditions under which kids are worse off staying? Sure. But everyone who decides they aren't being fulfilled, or has "differences" doesn't have this situation. Everyone getting a divorce is CERTAINLY not getting one because they are being threatened, or are in danger. They get it because they're "not happy." And a kid needs to see his parents be happy, right? Well, nothing is happy in divorce, and the kid doesn't need Mommy and Daddy to be fulfilled. The kid needs to be happy. The parents can be happy after the child isn't a child anymore.

And LaT....thanks for your critique, but I stand by my words.




Your assessment is from faulty logic: generally speaking families in which a divorce has occurred are usually more dysfunctional than families in which the parents stay together.

Unhappy parents that stay together will create all kinds of issues.
There is no healthy relationship modeling.
The kids frequently feel as caught in the middle as much as with divorced parents.

A family in which 2 parents who love each other is going to be more stable than "a broken home", but most of the studies you are going to find won't be comparing a dysfunctional home with 2 parents who are clearly miserable to a divorced couple.
Kids internalise that stuff and feel like they are to blame for mommy and daddy fighting.
That does not equal a stable home life.

Not because they want different sex.
Not because they don't want to go to counselling.
Not because they want a different partner.

None of those are the general reason why relationships end.
Relationships usually end because people are incompatible.
The things you list are simply symptoms of same.




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Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Age appropriate chores - 3/8/2013 9:23:02 AM   
Notsweet


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Joined: 6/11/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar


quote:

ORIGINAL: Notsweet

(And by the way, if that's the situation that they are in at their mothers, is there anything that can be done to have them removed from that home? Sometimes you find resources in the strangest places.)


I've answered that several times now...

Seriously, if you're not actually going to bother reading the tread before flying of the handle, I wouldn't mind it at all if you'd "get off this tread" like you promised you where going to in your second post...


I did read that you had tried, but I assume you haven't succeeded because the court doesn't think she's a bad parent? Or that your home is better?

(in reply to UllrsIshtar)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: Age appropriate chores - 3/8/2013 9:31:34 AM   
Notsweet


Posts: 873
Joined: 6/11/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ

Your assessment is from faulty logic: generally speaking families in which a divorce has occurred are usually more dysfunctional than families in which the parents stay together.

Unhappy parents that stay together will create all kinds of issues.
There is no healthy relationship modeling.
The kids frequently feel as caught in the middle as much as with divorced parents.

A family in which 2 parents who love each other is going to be more stable than "a broken home", but most of the studies you are going to find won't be comparing a dysfunctional home with 2 parents who are clearly miserable to a divorced couple.
Kids internalise that stuff and feel like they are to blame for mommy and daddy fighting.
That does not equal a stable home life.

Not because they want different sex.
Not because they don't want to go to counselling.
Not because they want a different partner.

None of those are the general reason why relationships end.
Relationships usually end because people are incompatible.
The things you list are simply symptoms of same.



angelika, I understand what you're saying, and I can see why you would feel that way.
But here's the thing. If parents said, "Ok, well we're not compatible, but we signed this contract. Why don't we behave ourselves like adults, and keep the home together, and when we are no longer responsible for their shelter and well-being, we go our separate ways?"

What if they behaved themselves like adults.
"But they don't."
True. So they shouldn't have kids. And if they do, they need to be reminded that they have a contract.

I get so sick of the fact that children have NO rights, and it's all about Mommy and Daddy and what makes THEM happy.

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RE: Age appropriate chores - 3/8/2013 9:32:03 AM   
searching4mysir


Posts: 2757
Joined: 6/16/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Notsweet


quote:

ORIGINAL: searching4mysir


And if there is physical, emotional or sexual abuse in the home? Still think they should stay together "for the kids"? How is THAT healthy for them? Newsflash, it isn't, and if BOTH parents don't want to be there for the kids, it is healthier for ALL if they split.


In the case of abuse, of course it's best to leave.
If both parents "don't want to be there?" Well, gee. It's an eighteen year contract.

It's not about YOUR kids, YOUR possessions. It's about the people those kids become, the people you have signed on to make. This people-making business is a hard job, and each part you take on costs 18 years. Don't want to put your "don't want to be there" to the side until you finish the job? Don't look for an "oh how brave" from me. I speak from years of regret--my own, and hundreds of others that I have seen.



So, in Ishtar's case, it would be better for the children to be neglected than to provide them a safe place to be half the time? In her case, it wasn't that both parents didn't want to be a responsible parent (one did, and he left so those children could have a better life at least half the time): those children were/are being neglected, and that is abuse.

< Message edited by searching4mysir -- 3/8/2013 9:37:01 AM >

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RE: Age appropriate chores - 3/8/2013 9:34:51 AM   
Notsweet


Posts: 873
Joined: 6/11/2006
Status: offline 		Both parents didn't want to be a responsible parent? Hmm. I'd have to agree on that one, so okay.

But the court didn't see the mother as neglecting the children. And didn't see the father as being so much better that the children should live with him.

And I didn't see Ishtar saying that the courts found the children to be abused or neglected. If I missed that, I'm sorry.

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Profile   Post #: 94
RE: Age appropriate chores - 3/8/2013 10:07:33 AM   
searching4mysir


Posts: 2757
Joined: 6/16/2011
Status: offline 		Whether or not the courts agreed that the mother was neglectful, she was:

quote:

How about my husband making sure the kids had a place on this Earth where their care didn't come AFTER that of a couple dozen animals?
How about making a place for them where "clean" clothes aren't something you dig out of a pile on the floor that may have been used as a litter box?
How about making a place for them where food isn't routinely left to rot in bowls in the living room because the leftover meal wasn't brought to the kitchen?
How about making a place for them where the hoard/collection (that's half eaten by mice) doesn't come before their needs, and money is allocated to take care of their stuff before it's used to buy more crap?
How about making a place for them where they can observe that "being late" isn't the standard default time you arrive at?
How about making a place for them where there are 2 parental figures who actively try to spend time on them and teach them things, instead of having one parental figure too exhausted to have time for them by trying to keep up with the mess the other one made, and the other one is too busy making a mess to have time for them and tells them to go away and leave her alone all day?
How about making a place for them where they are taught to do things for themselves, instead of being fed in a highchair with a spoon at age 4?
How about the fact that with my husband's salary out of the equation their mother now has 50% less animals to put before the kids?
How about the fact that for whatever reason, their mother (with the help of her new husband) is now able to make more progress, and keep the house cleaner than she did in the 10 years spend with my husband?


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Profile   Post #: 95
RE: Age appropriate chores - 3/8/2013 10:10:50 AM   
TheLilSquaw


Posts: 2340
Joined: 10/24/2012
From: Middle River, MD
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

It always seemed to Me that the household tasks where My kids were emulating Me or helping Me were the ones that they enjoyed the most. There's something about that which makes it fun or more interesting.


I agree with this, I also think that a boy takes things differently coming from a man, than he does a woman. Even his mother.

Example: I used to have to fight to get my son to iron his clothes. He would rather not fuss with it. Then my best friend stayed with us after coming back from being deployed. When my son saw a man he respected ironing. Wow! Talk about night and day. Now he asks to iron my clothes. Lol

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RE: Age appropriate chores - 3/8/2013 10:14:20 AM   
TheLilSquaw


Posts: 2340
Joined: 10/24/2012
From: Middle River, MD
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: searching4mysir

Whether or not the courts agreed that the mother was neglectful, she was:




In all fairness we are only hearing 1 side of the story so saying someone was neglectful is harsh IMO.

The courts hear both sides and see evidence from both sides.
I'm not saying courts are perfect but they have the whole picture (or try to) where we have a few posts and 1 persons version of the facts as she sees them.


_____________________________

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Lifestyle & ProSwitch
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http://www.clips4sale.com/69201
http://www.kinkbomb.com/studio/Sadistic_Babygirl_

(in reply to searching4mysir)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: Age appropriate chores - 3/8/2013 11:02:07 AM   
UllrsIshtar


Posts: 3693
Joined: 7/28/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Notsweet

I did read that you had tried, but I assume you haven't succeeded because the court doesn't think she's a bad parent? Or that your home is better?


Neither of those apply, but like I've said before, I'm not going to go into the specifics.

It's not relevant. Custody schedules are not likely to change in the forceable future.

I didn't start this tread to dwell on what I cannot fix or control. I have my little corner on of the universe in which I have space to influence these kids in a positive way, and I started this tread to help me straighten my head and figure out how best to go about doing that.

Going of into a rant of negativity is not productive, will not help these kids, and will not have any impact on the issues I'm having with the boy.

_____________________________

I can be your whore
I am the dirt you created
I am your sinner
And your whore
But let me tell you something baby
You love me for everything you hate me for

(in reply to Notsweet)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: Age appropriate chores - 3/8/2013 11:12:46 AM   
RochesterDomme


Posts: 28
Joined: 2/21/2013
Status: offline 		Couple of quick thoughts..

As far as how to entertain him... What about finding a local play group? Many local libraries have story time for the younger ones. Perhaps an art class at a community center? Or let him join a sport team, I know here, soccer clubs have teams for age 3 and up.

This is not a slam at all, have you considered a parenting class? It might help you with finding age appropriate discipline and rewards.

(in reply to UllrsIshtar)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: Age appropriate chores - 3/8/2013 11:14:14 AM   
UllrsIshtar


Posts: 3693
Joined: 7/28/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheLilSquaw

In all fairness we are only hearing 1 side of the story so saying someone was neglectful is harsh IMO.



I agree, and not only don't I want to get into these specifics here, it's also impossible for me to present an objective view on this because of how involved I am.

I already regret making the post where I outlined some of her faults as I see them. I should have just put Notsweet on ignore and moved on.

_____________________________

I can be your whore
I am the dirt you created
I am your sinner
And your whore
But let me tell you something baby
You love me for everything you hate me for

(in reply to TheLilSquaw)
Profile   Post #: 100
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