Age appropriate chores

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UllrsIshtar -> Age appropriate chores (3/6/2013 2:00:03 PM)
So, I have 2 stephchildren (boy almost 5, girl 6.5) from my husband's previous marriage that are at our house half the time (in 6 week long blocks). Now I'm -to my own amazement- somewhat of a hard-ass parental figure. I expect stuff from them like chores, and responsibility, and self-discipline. Now with the girl, all of this goes great. She's very clearly above average in intelligence, way ahead in school and social development than her peers, and a little rule monger herself, which means I usually only need to explain the rule to her once, remind her once or twice, and she's just off with it like they're written in stone, harping on her dad and brother (and me) if we don't follow them. Her brother is totally different. He's a little dreamer, with his head in the clouds, and the only time he seems to be able to focus for longer than 5 seconds is when electronics (tv, video games, computer, iPods) are involved. Other than that, it doesn't seem to matter how many time you tell him something, or how you walk through it with him. He'll space out and wander off the second you turn your back. He doesn't seems to be intentionally disobedient, it's like he just can't remember how to be good. He also doesn't make eye contact when talking to people. Staring at the ceiling, or off in the distance instead... something that drives me nuts cause it makes me feel like he's not listening. Despite the fact that I work with him on pre-school activities everyday, he still can't remember how to hold a pen correctly (even though he's got a rubber "grip helper" thingy on). He seems bright, and asks the most amazing questions. Is very talkative, and quick to pick up on science, and biological facts (he's currently mostly fascinated by the concept of "death", internal organs, and the fazing of matter from solid-liquid-gas) so he doesn't come across to me like he's not smart enough, it's more like he just can't seem to hold a train of thought if it's not his "first favorite thing" to be thinking about at that moment. Chores are a nightmare with him, because I basically have to walk him through how to do something, and remind him of every tiny detail and step along the way every time he does a chore for literally months before he finally gets the hang of it enough to start doing it semi-independently. I don't mind teaching him... but these are all things his sister did with ease at this age, and she managed to pick up on how to do them after just being told 2-3 times. The boy takes more like 20-30 times. As far as his current chores go: - Getting dressed, undressed, putting clothing/pj's in the appropriate spot by himself - Tidy up his own room - Open curtains in morning, turn the lights and his nightlight off - Brush his own teeth, wash hands by himself - Get his own drinks, put the stepstool away after using it to get drinks - Set the table, clear the table - Unload the dishwasher - (Help me) sort the laundry, put clean clothes away after I fold/hang them - Put his shoes, coat, backpack away in the appropriate spots when coming home - Help me cook (measuring things, retrieving items) - General help with tidying up the house - Empty (small) trashcans - Keep the bathroom tidy, wipe down the counters when he spills something Some of these he can do quite independently and has for a while, even though it took me weeks to teach him how. Other ones are a complete hit and miss on whether he even attempts to do them. It's sometimes very surprising which ones he'll pick up on easily and which ones are just a failure to make progress on (he unloads the dishwasher no problem, even starting to load it by himself.... but he can't remember to flush a toilet when he's done, or open his curtains in the mornings and turn off lights). My husband is very worried he's drastically behind, and got a learning disability. I myself sometimes wonder if I'm simple being too hard on him, because I keep measuring him to what his sister was doing at this age, when I already know she's way ahead for her age. What do you guys think, and do you have any other ideas for age appropriate chores for a 4-5 year old?

mnottertail -> RE: Age appropriate chores (3/6/2013 2:07:33 PM)
risk reward pretty simple. no of the electronics until chores are done. Look, he aint interested in chores, they are too mundane. He has age appropriate chores, and is not 'deficient' in any way, he just aint fuckin interested. Life will be like it will be. Keep the stiff upper lip and be patient, you were in the same way once in your life, and the point is not that he does chores, but he learns responsibilities, division of labor, and so on. I imagine the girl has 2 role models to check this with, while my bets is dad dont do much of 'chores' like the boy knows 'chores' right now, and it may be that father has to do chores alongside him occasionally and to reinforce the points, to give him a model, that it is not beneath either of them to contribute, know what I mean without taking offense?

lizi -> RE: Age appropriate chores (3/6/2013 2:22:43 PM)
Sorry for not answering your question yet, but some of your description of the boy brought up a few questions of my own. Is he in school yet? Pre-k? You say your husband has concerns, has their been any educational or learning testing done yet of the boy?

UllrsIshtar -> RE: Age appropriate chores (3/6/2013 2:33:01 PM)
He goes to pre-school 3 half days a week. There is talk from the pre-school of holding him back a year in pre-school because they don't feel he's ready for kindergarten. A couple months ago they moved him from the "normal" pre-k group, to a younger, guided play group, because they teacher couldn't handle getting him to follow the rest of the class activities, and he was to quick to trow a tantrum fit if he couldn't do something as well as the other kids. That when I started working with him on school stuff at home (I don't want him to fall behind). He hasn't been formally tested on anything. We've considered it, but seeing that his mother would have to sign off, that would probably be a nightmare custody battle all on its own (and there are already constant battles with that woman my husband's got to deal with) that's we've been holding off a bit and seeing if things just will fall more in place as he gets a little older.

LadyPact -> RE: Age appropriate chores (3/6/2013 2:33:55 PM)
I agree with the no electronics until the chores are accomplished. You're dealing with a five year old and they are easily distracted. That's one of the reasons that Sesame Street is such a successful learning tool for the 3-5 age group. All of the segments are short and fit for the attention span of kids that age. You're going to be stuck with reminders. It's part of the deal. When you first see him in the morning, before he sits down to breakfast, you ask him if he remembered to turn off those lights. If not, he turns himself around to do that before doing anything else. Eventually, the kid either remembers or he enjoys the game of running back and forth from the breakfast table. Which, like Ron says, makes the dang chores interesting to the kid. Then, it becomes fun. As long as it doesn't delay the schedule for getting little folks off to school and such, there's no harm in it. I'd also consider what Ron says about role models here. Ishtar, I take it you have some kind of M/f dynamic-y type of thing going there where, if there's any service going on, you're probably doing it. I wouldn't be terribly surprised if your husband had some kind of power structure (even in the slightest way and maybe not especially official) going on with the children's mother, where she was primarily responsible for household duties. Kids do pick up on these things, even with their small concept of gender roles. It might be good to reinforce what kinds of duties/things Dad does around the house so the boy can see that everybody contributes in some way to the household. Does Dad handle the household finances? Let the boy sit on his lap while Dad works on paying bills. Household repairs? When those things come up, let Dad reinforce that is one of his responsibilities in the household. When doing so, it's helpful to explain that people may do different tasks, but it's all a part of being a family and everybody's tasks are important, whatever they might be. Good luck on the parenting thing. Good to see you again, Ishtar.

MAINEiacMISTRESS -> RE: Age appropriate chores (3/6/2013 2:49:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar He goes to pre-school 3 half days a week. There is talk from the pre-school of holding him back a year in pre-school because they don't feel he's ready for kindergarten. A couple months ago they moved him from the "normal" pre-k group, to a younger, guided play group, because they teacher couldn't handle getting him to follow the rest of the class activities, and he was to quick to trow a tantrum fit if he couldn't do something as well as the other kids. That when I started working with him on school stuff at home (I don't want him to fall behind). He hasn't been formally tested on anything. We've considered it, but seeing that his mother would have to sign off, that would probably be a nightmare custody battle all on its own (and there are already constant battles with that woman my husband's got to deal with) that's we've been holding off a bit and seeing if things just will fall more in place as he gets a little older. Well, it seems that it's not just YOU who sees he's got something wrong going on, because you say the school is making changes in his education to deal with it. It's pretty obvious something should be done. It would be a terrible thing to cost the boy proper education (and set him behind, as well as cause him later humiliation because of it) because you MISS or are late diagnosing a problem he is having, simply because of parenting politics. Yes, there may be a battle, but the well-being of the child is at stake and all parents and step parents involved should put aside their differences and pull together on this. REALLY. Also, video games for a child as young as 4 or 5 ??? This is when social skills form, and understanding of the world around them...i.e. CONNECTION TO REALITY (what's real, what's fantasy, how the real world works). If he's glued to the video games during this period of development he's not going to get this.

IamMistressM -> RE: Age appropriate chores (3/6/2013 2:53:34 PM)
He's not even 5 and he has all these chores? I've had 3 children and never expected that much from them at that age as they are still children. I taught them politeness, please and thank you, please may I leave the table, not to interrupt when an adult is talking , thank you for having me when they went to a friends house etc but hardly any chores apart from flushing the toilet and not leaving their clothes and toys all over the place lol It's well known that boys mature more slowly than girls so to expect him to do all of the tasks at such a young age might be an uphill battle. I'd consult the family Doctor and teachers though just in case, Please don't think I'm saying he has a learning disability but it is worth checking if you're both worried. :)

UllrsIshtar -> RE: Age appropriate chores (3/6/2013 2:53:34 PM)
No electronics (or anything else fun) until chores are done is already part of the deal and strictly enforces. The problem is that he doesn't seem to care. I can tell him that, and enforce it, and it will still take him 2 hours to do a chore that should take 10 minutes, mostly because he keeps distracting himself and moves SOOOO slowly. The concept of "the faster you get done the more time you have to play" just doesn't seem to get through to him for some reason. Gender rolemodels is something I hadn't considered though. [sm=ofcourse.gif] His dad and mom definitely didn't have a power structure (one of the reasons he divorced her). She's a borderline hoarder who doesn't do anything, so when they where married, if my husband wanted the house clean, he did it all by himself, on top of taking care of the 20+ animals she "collected" over the years, and holding down a full-time job. Meanwhile she doesn't work, nor does much of anything else. It's my understanding that she still doesn't, but her current guy doesn't care as much if the house looks like a disaster zone. My husband works from home, and the kids know that he doesn't do chores because his "chore" is working/making money, which he does on the computer. They actually think that their mom "works" too, because she's also on the computer all day... [8\|] The girl has commented several times that when she grows up she wants to be "a mommy like Ishtar who stays home and doesn't work; not a mommy who works like her daddy". Now that I'm typing that I feel like an idiot for not realizing before that the fact that his dad is considered "the man" because he's on the computer all day might very well be the reason the boy can't focus on anything but electronics. My husband actually has a tendency to help on chores a lot... sitting down and letting me take care of stuff is something I had to actively "train" him to do. I'll have to talk to him about doing some more "girl" work again with the boy to role model that too. As far as manly chores around the house goes... I do all of those too, I'm a trained electrician, and love my power tools (hell I'm currently taking down a 40ft tree that's 10ft away from our house by myself, as well as finishing our basement) and I must say that the boy shows much more of an interest in helping me with those kinds of things than with the rest of the chores, while the girl hates helping with anything that involves a tool (until her brother joins in, at which points she all of a sudden must too... only to then whine if she brakes a nail... lol). I'd like them both to grow up being capable adults in chores for both gender... but at the same time, I don't mind at all if they develop strong gender identities and preferences for more gender specific chores, and evolve to naturally each have their own set of chores... so maybe I'll have to look into to finding some more manly stuff for the boy to do. Any ideas on how to get him to remember to flush a toilet though... that one REALLY irks me... and I don't have the time to keep track of when he goes during every minute of the day to remind him on the spot.

IamMistressM -> RE: Age appropriate chores (3/6/2013 2:59:54 PM)
For flushing the toilet, treat it as a game. Congratulate and reward worked for me. I managed this over a one weekend :)

lizi -> RE: Age appropriate chores (3/6/2013 3:03:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar He goes to pre-school 3 half days a week. There is talk from the pre-school of holding him back a year in pre-school because they don't feel he's ready for kindergarten. A couple months ago they moved him from the "normal" pre-k group, to a younger, guided play group, because they teacher couldn't handle getting him to follow the rest of the class activities, and he was to quick to trow a tantrum fit if he couldn't do something as well as the other kids. That when I started working with him on school stuff at home (I don't want him to fall behind). He hasn't been formally tested on anything. We've considered it, but seeing that his mother would have to sign off, that would probably be a nightmare custody battle all on its own (and there are already constant battles with that woman my husband's got to deal with) that's we've been holding off a bit and seeing if things just will fall more in place as he gets a little older. Is the pre-school connected with the public school system or is it private?

UllrsIshtar -> RE: Age appropriate chores (3/6/2013 3:04:15 PM)
Private

UllrsIshtar -> RE: Age appropriate chores (3/6/2013 3:12:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: IamMistressM He's not even 5 and he has all these chores? Yep... he started doing chores when he was 3, and they've slowly increased since then. I'm a strong believer of the idea that children learn by modeling adults from a young age, and that artificially creating a block of years in a child's youth where this isn't an expectation of them, and they only have to play by doing "kid stuff" is unnatural. It's very recent in human history that any children have had time to do nothing but play all day. Historically play has always been a balance between peer-interaction and adult chore modeling. They both have plenty of time to play, but at the same time, I also both expect them to learn to be more independent and actively take part in caring for themselves, regardless of age. Hell, if you think his chore list is long, you should see hers... it's at least triple that, and she still keeps asking me to add stuff to her responsibilities (she's a really miniature house maker in the making...) We started this week by teaching her to make breakfast and lunch for the both of them in the morning (which she requested me to teach her) and when I got to the kitchen this morning... she had made ME breakfast too! [:D]

UllrsIshtar -> RE: Age appropriate chores (3/6/2013 3:19:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MAINEiacMISTRESS Also, video games for a child as young as 4 or 5 ??? This is when social skills form, and understanding of the world around them...i.e. CONNECTION TO REALITY (what's real, what's fantasy, how the real world works). If he's glued to the video games during this period of development he's not going to get this. Yep, he gets to play video games. They both have their own iPod (mostly because we've just go too many apple products laying around doing nothing 95% of the time anyways because my husband is a software engineer who needs them to test code on). He also has a tv in his room. And there is a central computer on which he is allowed to play educational video games (abcmouse.com). All these things are not at will, and are strictly limited in time and spaced through the day. For example, he doesn't like practicing school stuff like coloring, cutting, glueing and so on with me, so we have a rule that for every hour of "school work" he does, he gets 15min on the computer to play pre-school educational video games. It works really well on getting him motivated to do things he doesn't want to do. When it comes to chores though, it's not so much that he doesn't want to do them... just that he "forgets" how and when. The promise of a reward with electronics doesn't seem to work at all on chores... and I also don't want to have to "bribe" him with electronics for everything he does, every second of the day.

mnottertail -> RE: Age appropriate chores (3/6/2013 3:20:06 PM)
quote: Now that I'm typing that I feel like an idiot for not realizing before that the fact that his dad is considered "the man" because he's on the computer all day might very well be the reason the boy can't focus on anything but electronics. My husband actually has a tendency to help on chores a lot... sitting down and letting me take care of stuff is something I had to actively "train" him to do. I'll have to talk to him about doing some more "girl" work again with the boy to role model that too. My method would be that the father makes the bed with the boy watching and then takes the boy into his bedroom and demonstrates how to make the bed, with an...I do it, so can you my man, sort of thing..........

Lucifyre -> RE: Age appropriate chores (3/6/2013 3:20:43 PM)
Ok, a couple things pop into my mind after reading everything above. 1) Boys mature at about a 4 YEAR slower rate than girls do. Obviously at age 5 that's probably a bit smaller time wise, but you really cannot compare the girl and the boy in that manner and expect it to make any sense (as you're finding out because she could at his age and now he cannot) 2) there may very well be some sort of deficiency or learning disability in the works there, I'm not saying I think there is, but it is in his best interests for you to deal with bio mom and make testing happen. 3) at age 5 he has A LOT more to do than he should have. Flushing the toilet, getting himself dressed, washing his hands and brushing his teeth are the kind of things that should be taught at this age and expected, but again, boys learn a lot slower than girls do, so you having to remind him until you're pulling your hair out is NORMAL. 4) You yourself have brought up a good point about him maybe being more interested in gender type chores than others. So, take the kid outside to rake leaves and grass after you mow every week if you want to add extra stuff. 5) At his age he is still learning HOW to learn, to be frank, I wouldn't have either of them doing any kind of household chores until at least age 8. Then start with things like running the vacuume or washing some dishes. as always...just my opinion Luci

IamMistressM -> RE: Age appropriate chores (3/6/2013 3:32:42 PM)
I'm a strong believer of the idea that children learn by modeling adults from a young age, and that artificially creating a block of years in a child's youth where this isn't an expectation of them, and they only have to play by doing "kid stuff" is unnatural. ( sorry not IT literate so don't know how to quote) We will agree to disagree then. As someone else said, from 8 then yes but before.. they are still children. Morals and standards should be taught from an early age but too many chores come later in my opinion. Kids stuff? They are kids and not playing at being one :) I do hope your worries are sorted out though.

lmpishlilhellcat -> RE: Age appropriate chores (3/6/2013 3:35:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar No electronics (or anything else fun) until chores are done is already part of the deal and strictly enforces. The problem is that he doesn't seem to care. I can tell him that, and enforce it, and it will still take him 2 hours to do a chore that should take 10 minutes, mostly because he keeps distracting himself and moves SOOOO slowly. The concept of "the faster you get done the more time you have to play" just doesn't seem to get through to him for some reason. Gender rolemodels is something I hadn't considered though. [sm=ofcourse.gif] His dad and mom definitely didn't have a power structure (one of the reasons he divorced her). She's a borderline hoarder who doesn't do anything, so when they where married, if my husband wanted the house clean, he did it all by himself, on top of taking care of the 20+ animals she "collected" over the years, and holding down a full-time job. Meanwhile she doesn't work, nor does much of anything else. It's my understanding that she still doesn't, but her current guy doesn't care as much if the house looks like a disaster zone. My husband works from home, and the kids know that he doesn't do chores because his "chore" is working/making money, which he does on the computer. They actually think that their mom "works" too, because she's also on the computer all day... [8\|] The girl has commented several times that when she grows up she wants to be "a mommy like Ishtar who stays home and doesn't work; not a mommy who works like her daddy". Now that I'm typing that I feel like an idiot for not realizing before that the fact that his dad is considered "the man" because he's on the computer all day might very well be the reason the boy can't focus on anything but electronics. My husband actually has a tendency to help on chores a lot... sitting down and letting me take care of stuff is something I had to actively "train" him to do. I'll have to talk to him about doing some more "girl" work again with the boy to role model that too. As far as manly chores around the house goes... I do all of those too, I'm a trained electrician, and love my power tools (hell I'm currently taking down a 40ft tree that's 10ft away from our house by myself, as well as finishing our basement) and I must say that the boy shows much more of an interest in helping me with those kinds of things than with the rest of the chores, while the girl hates helping with anything that involves a tool (until her brother joins in, at which points she all of a sudden must too... only to then whine if she brakes a nail... lol). I'd like them both to grow up being capable adults in chores for both gender... but at the same time, I don't mind at all if they develop strong gender identities and preferences for more gender specific chores, and evolve to naturally each have their own set of chores... so maybe I'll have to look into to finding some more manly stuff for the boy to do. Any ideas on how to get him to remember to flush a toilet though... that one REALLY irks me... and I don't have the time to keep track of when he goes during every minute of the day to remind him on the spot. I don't have kids, so you can take this with a grain of salt. If I were in your position I would give positive reinforcement for the things he does remember to do or can do. If he takes an interest in helping you out with the tools/fixing things, I would use that to your advantage. Especially, since the little girl hates doing those kinds of chores. As long as the chores are even and the work gets done, what does it matter who does what? Same as people before said, no electronics or toys until he can get the chores done. I'd also work on some exercises that practice memory and retention skills. There are sites out there (like workbook exercises, but online) A simple game of memory might work. You can probably find the game at any store in the game section. I don't think you are being unreasonable asking him to do chores. Most montessori schools teach children laundry, cooking, and bathroom skills at young ages.

Toppingfrmbottom -> RE: Age appropriate chores (3/6/2013 3:46:57 PM)
I second getting him tested. I am no expert but it sounds like something is going on there, and not just the "usual stuff"

OsideGirl -> RE: Age appropriate chores (3/6/2013 3:50:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar He also doesn't make eye contact when talking to people. Staring at the ceiling, or off in the distance instead... something that drives me nuts cause it makes me feel like he's not listening. This can actually be a sign that there is something not quite right. He really should be tested by a professional.

lizi -> RE: Age appropriate chores (3/6/2013 3:57:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OsideGirl quote: ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar He also doesn't make eye contact when talking to people. Staring at the ceiling, or off in the distance instead... something that drives me nuts cause it makes me feel like he's not listening. This can actually be a sign that there is something not quite right. He really should be tested by a professional. That's the sentence that got me thinking as well.

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