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[Poll]

How many of you are:


Pro Gun, pro capital punishment, anti abortion
  24% (13)
Anti gun, anti abortion, anti capital punishment
  5% (3)
Pro gun, pro abortion, pro capital punishment
  39% (21)
Pro gun, anti capital punishment, pro abortion
  18% (10)
Anti gun, pro abortion, anti capital punishment
  11% (6)


Total Votes : 53


(last vote on : 3/26/2013 4:57:38 AM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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RE: How many of you are: - 3/23/2013 4:16:12 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynnxz


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynnxz

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx




Perhaps if you were to attend an abortion you might change your mind...It is called a d and c. After you watch a vidio of it would you assume that anyone would use it as an alternative to toilet?




A D&C is something that is also done after some miscarriages, to diagnose and treat polyps, endometriosis, uterine cancer, and fibroids. It, in itself, is not an abortion

please disabuse me of my ignorance...how exactly is an abortion performed?


Come on dude... If you are going to argue a point, at least have a working knowledge of it. :-/

That being said, planned parenthood has a pretty good site




Common dudette I am waiting for you to disabuse me of my ignorance.
From your link.

What Are the Kinds of In-Clinic Abortion?
There is more than one kind of in-clinic abortion procedure. The most common is called aspiration. It is also known as vacuum aspiration. Aspiration is usually used up to 16 weeks after a woman’s last period.

D&E — dilation and evacuation — is another kind of in-clinic abortion. D&E is usually performed later than 16 weeks after a woman's last period.


From wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dilation_and_evacuation
The first step in a D&E is to dilate the cervix. This is often begun about a day before the surgical procedure, and often involves the insertion of multiple laminaria sticks into the cervix. Enlarging the opening of the cervix enables surgical instruments such as a curette or forceps to be inserted into the uterus.

Is not the curette the little rake that is used in a d&c?
Also from wiki:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_aspiration
Vacuuming as a means of removing the uterine contents, rather than the previous use of a hard metal curette, was pioneered in 1958 by Drs Wu Yuantai and Wu Xianzhen in China,[5] but their paper was only translated into English on the fiftieth anniversary of the study that "ultimately led to the technique becoming the world’s commonest and safest obstetric procedure".

Dilation and curettage (D&C), also known as sharp curettage, was once the standard of care in situations requiring uterine evacuation. However, vacuum aspiration has a number of advantages over D&C and has largely replaced D&C in many settings.[14]

Vacuum aspiration may be used earlier in pregnancy than dilation and curettage (D&C). Manual vacuum aspiration is the only surgical abortion procedure available earlier than the 6th week of pregnancy.[2] Vacuum aspiration has lower rates of complications when compared to D&C.[13]

Vacuum aspiration - especially manual vacuum aspiration - is significantly cheaper than D&C. The equipment needed for vacuum aspiration costs less than a curette set. Unlike D&C, vacuum aspiration does not require general anesthesia and so can be performed as an outpatient procedure at a clinic rather than in a hospital surgical setting. While D&C is generally provided only by physicians, vacuum aspiration may be performed by advanced practice clinicians such as physician's assistants and midwives.[15]

Manual vacuum aspiration does not require electricity and so can be provided in locations that have unreliable electrical service or none at all. Manual vacuum aspiration also has the advantage of being quiet, without the noise of an electric vacuum pump.[15]
From the links provided it would appear that a d&c is an abortion and was,until fairly recently, the most common form of abortion.
My original point was that no one would choose abortion as a substitute for birth control anymore than one would choose a d&c as a substitute for toilet paper.

(in reply to Lynnxz)
Profile   Post #: 121
RE: How many of you are: - 3/23/2013 4:37:32 PM   
Lynnxz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

...It is called a d and c.





This is your original quote. Your terminology error was explained to you. D&C is a broader term than D&E.

Also... From your own source... "Some sources may use the terms dilation and evacuation[3] or "suction" dilation and curettage[4] to refer to vacuum aspiration, although those terms are normally used to refer to distinct procedures."

< Message edited by Lynnxz -- 3/23/2013 4:39:10 PM >


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Profile   Post #: 122
RE: How many of you are: - 3/23/2013 4:58:32 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynnxz

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

...It is called a d and c.





This is your original quote. Your terminology error was explained to you. D&C is a broader term than D&E.


That is not my original quote it is a portion of my original post.

quote:

Also... From your own source... "Some sources may use the terms dilation and evacuation[3] or "suction" dilation and curettage[4] to refer to vacuum aspiration, although those terms are normally used to refer to distinct procedures."



According to the sources cited a d&c is an abortion and was the most common form until fairly recently...so what exactly is your point?

< Message edited by thompsonx -- 3/23/2013 4:59:10 PM >

(in reply to Lynnxz)
Profile   Post #: 123
RE: How many of you are: - 3/23/2013 5:03:39 PM   
crazyml


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynnxz


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961



And being Catholic, I should share the church's view on birth control, however, unless humans are far superior in breeding than any other mammal on the planet, repeated pregnancies carry more risk with each pregnancy, and unless the biological clock is a joke, after a certain age, the risk of carrying a child to term is greater.





Hold on a tick, this has been annoying me a bit.

Catholicism, and all other religions should have EXACTLY ZERO SAY in the legality of anything, including the abortion debate.




They have a fuckload of influence though.

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Profile   Post #: 124
RE: How many of you are: - 3/23/2013 5:04:21 PM   
calamitysandra


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Her point is (at least as I perceive it) is that a d&c might be an abortion. It is also be performed in cases of medical problems like endo, fibroids, uterine cancer and others.

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Profile   Post #: 125
RE: How many of you are: - 3/23/2013 5:10:53 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: calamitysandra

Her point is (at least as I perceive it) is that a d&c might be an abortion. It is also be performed in cases of medical problems like endo, fibroids, uterine cancer and others.

The cites posted show that a d&c was the normal protocol for abortions until the suction proceedure was introduced and found to be safer and more eficacious, but that it is still used in second trimester terminations in preference to the suction method because the fetal tissue is much denser in the second trimester.

(in reply to calamitysandra)
Profile   Post #: 126
RE: How many of you are: - 3/23/2013 5:12:25 PM   
crazyml


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

you would like to reduce a woman being unwantedly pregnant to a mere incubator for someone else?


So it is better to kill a baby than to give a childless couple a chance at being parents?



Let's use a less "loaded" term than "Baby".

Let's talk about "parasite" instead. Or "Growth"...

Oh no wait... if we do that, it really fucks up the whole anti abortion case doesn't it.

I think a woman should be allowed to abort up to the point that the parasite pays its first mortgage payment.

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Profile   Post #: 127
RE: How many of you are: - 3/23/2013 7:31:18 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
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quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

Let's use a less "loaded" term than "Baby".

Let's talk about "parasite" instead.

You have a droll sense of humor.

K.

(in reply to crazyml)
Profile   Post #: 128
RE: How many of you are: - 3/23/2013 8:07:15 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

Let's use a less "loaded" term than "Baby".

Let's talk about "parasite" instead.

You have a droll sense of humor.

K.




What sense of humor?

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Profile   Post #: 129
RE: How many of you are: - 3/24/2013 3:51:12 AM   
LadyPact


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
So it is better to kill a baby than to give a childless couple a chance at being parents?

What I am saying is that I have heard women say "Abortion was my only option."

Potential adoptive parents are often willing to cover the entire expense of the pregnancy, and then some. Adoption lawyers set those plans up all the time in private adoptions.

Even when you consider the older children up for adoption, there are still two million childless couples on average in the US every year that want to adopt.

There is a viable alternative to abortion. The problem is with the "instant gratification" or expediency of getting an abortion, the problem disappears in one afternoon at a clinic, rather than giving the child a chance at a life with parents that actually want the child.

I took enough lives when I was in the army, so now I have a new perspective on life.

But what the fuck do I know, I am only a former dumb grunt.
I saw the above quote on another response and wanted to have a word about it.

The 'childless couple' thing, in My opinion, is not a relative argument. Women with unwanted pregnancies are not beholden to other people because the woman has the ability to get pregnant and another woman does not. Don't kid yourself. Carrying a baby to term is a life altering experience and it doesn't end when the adoption papers are signed. That woman not only puts her life on hold for a year (because we still have to think of the postpartum period while the body comes back from pregnancy) but also goes through all that goes with it.

Throughout the thread, you have mentioned often that you are Catholic. I'm also a person of faith, though not your exact affiliation. As being so, I also can accept the concept of "God's plan' which may include the position that not all couples can or will be blessed with children. It's not the responsibility of others to provide them with one.



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Profile   Post #: 130
RE: How many of you are: - 3/24/2013 4:01:59 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

Let's use a less "loaded" term than "Baby".

Let's talk about "parasite" instead.

You have a droll sense of humor.

What sense of humor?

Okay, then maybe I have a droll sense of humor.

K.

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 131
RE: How many of you are: - 3/24/2013 4:02:10 AM   
absolutchocolat


Posts: 1392
Status: offline
FR

Also, there are no guarantees that the hypothetical baby-to-be-adopted will be healthy. Prenatal care is not cheap.

Health aside, a lot of the folks who give so many rights to unborn kids don't give two shits about them until they reach the age where they can vote, sign up for the military and pay taxes. Just look at the cuts in education.

Why not adopt kids who are already here? Kids who have been failed by by the systems in place that aren't newborns. Group homes are full of them. Fostering and/or adopting wards of the state , I think, is better than expecting women who don't want children to have them.

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 132
RE: How many of you are: - 3/24/2013 8:38:41 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

My original point was that no one would choose abortion as a substitute for birth control anymore than one would choose a d&c as a substitute for toilet paper.


Having personally known 2 women who did this I am going to have to call bullshit on that statement. Now I doubt the number is very high, but they are out there and to pretend they aren't is just silly.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynnxz

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

...It is called a d and c.





This is your original quote. Your terminology error was explained to you. D&C is a broader term than D&E.


That is not my original quote it is a portion of my original post.

quote:

Also... From your own source... "Some sources may use the terms dilation and evacuation[3] or "suction" dilation and curettage[4] to refer to vacuum aspiration, although those terms are normally used to refer to distinct procedures."



According to the sources cited a d&c is an abortion and was the most common form until fairly recently...so what exactly is your point?
 

Her point was you were wrong. A fact you seem totally unable to grasp. 



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RE: How many of you are: - 3/24/2013 9:04:21 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Yep Ken, you are right, according to the latest statistics there are 123000 children in the US to be adopted.

There are about 2 million childless couples waiting to adopt.

In which case, why are there so many unadopted kids?
Perhaps the picky would be adopters would turn their noses up at an ethnic baby (and these are the biggest groups of aborted embryos in your country by a mile) just as much as they would at a kid that's already been potty trained.
Which is an attitude that could cause seriously problems if somebody of colour is forced to bring a kid to term rather than aborting it, and then gets stuck with the brat because the adopters are only interested in white kids...

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Profile   Post #: 134
RE: How many of you are: - 3/24/2013 9:34:28 AM   
Lynnxz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


Her point was you were wrong. A fact you seem totally unable to grasp. 




I've given up. :-/




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Profile   Post #: 135
RE: How many of you are: - 3/24/2013 9:36:04 AM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

Let's use a less "loaded" term than "Baby".

Let's talk about "parasite" instead.

You have a droll sense of humor.

What sense of humor?

Okay, then maybe I have a droll sense of humor.

K.



There's no doubting that!


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Profile   Post #: 136
RE: How many of you are: - 3/24/2013 9:38:00 AM   
crazyml


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I also can accept the concept of "God's plan' which may include the position that not all couples can or will be blessed with children. It's not the responsibility of others to provide them with one.
[/color]



Ok... so if a child is conceived it is a result of "God's plan"?


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Remember.... There's always somewhere on the planet where it's jackass o'clock.

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Profile   Post #: 137
RE: How many of you are: - 3/24/2013 9:43:55 AM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
The 'childless couple' thing, in My opinion, is not a relative argument. Women with unwanted pregnancies are not beholden to other people because the woman has the ability to get pregnant and another woman does not.

Is it just me, or does the attitude that a woman's beholden to have a kid for somebody else who can't if she's unlucky enough to get pregnant with an unwanted foetus sound a lot like that "entitlement" thing? You know, the dreadful psychological disease that the evil liberals are using to destroy traditional American values.


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Profile   Post #: 138
RE: How many of you are: - 3/24/2013 10:56:00 AM   
Powergamz1


Posts: 1927
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Pro-gun.... but only for me, not for the rest of you lot.

Anti-abortion... hope to never have one.

Pro-Death... claiming to be anti, only pisses him off.





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Profile   Post #: 139
RE: How many of you are: - 3/24/2013 11:06:48 AM   
LadyPact


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quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml
Ok... so if a child is conceived it is a result of "God's plan"?

Possibly. However, since I'm not God, I wouldn't know what that purpose might be or how it plays out.



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Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

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Profile   Post #: 140
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