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RE: Muslim thugs - 4/1/2013 8:02:25 AM   
WantsOfTheFlesh


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
Would it be snark to point out that moaning about this is a pretty awesome level of hypocrisy coming from a resident in a country where they still practice the death sentence, in some States by electrocuting people?

nah its only an option instead of lethal injection at tha prisoners choosing. the chair was supposed to be more humane than hanging but some fool picked tha ac chair instead of tha way more effective dc version.

< Message edited by WantsOfTheFlesh -- 4/1/2013 8:16:58 AM >

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RE: Muslim thugs - 4/1/2013 10:19:36 AM   
Powergamz1


Posts: 1927
Joined: 9/3/2011
Status: offline 		No, it would be the usual xenophobic bigotry trying to derail yet another productive discussion.

Mere snark doesn't make sport out of the victims, or lump entire races and nationalities into categories of 'inferiors' the way you do.



quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Would it be snark to point out that moaning about this is a pretty awesome level of hypocrisy coming from a resident in a country where they still practice the death sentence, in some States by electrocuting people?



< Message edited by Powergamz1 -- 4/1/2013 10:24:51 AM >

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RE: Muslim thugs - 4/1/2013 11:05:20 AM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SadistDave

Unfortunately, no matter what the Islamic sympathizers and apologists here would have you believe about this being the result of extremists, these tragedies are on the rise with rank-and-file Muslims worldwide.

-SD-



Your link states the girl was having an affair, yet you chose the word rape, which speaks volumes about your motives.

You also failed to mention this type of crime is illegal in Bangladash, which makes the only thing "rank and file" about your post, your islamophobia.

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RE: Muslim thugs - 4/1/2013 12:59:29 PM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1
Mere snark doesn't make sport out of the victims, or lump entire races and nationalities into categories of 'inferiors' the way you do.

When did I do that, then?

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RE: Muslim thugs - 4/1/2013 2:35:09 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SadistDave
Unfortunately, no matter what the Islamic sympathizers and apologists here would have you believe about this being the result of extremists, these tragedies are on the rise with rank-and-file Muslims worldwide.


I think it's more that for obvious reasons some people have gotten real gun shy about bigotry. That people get so paranoid that this issue will be unfairly applied to all Muslims that they down play or ignore what is a significant problem.

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RE: Muslim thugs - 4/1/2013 2:40:45 PM   
Powergamz1


Posts: 1927
Joined: 9/3/2011
Status: offline 		So significant that you refuse to discuss it, and stick to playing with strawmen instead.
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: SadistDave
Unfortunately, no matter what the Islamic sympathizers and apologists here would have you believe about this being the result of extremists, these tragedies are on the rise with rank-and-file Muslims worldwide.


I think it's more that for obvious reasons some people have gotten real gun shy about bigotry. That people get so paranoid that this issue will be unfairly applied to all Muslims that they down play or ignore what is a significant problem.



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Profile   Post #: 186
RE: Muslim thugs - 4/1/2013 2:42:39 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
Your link states the girl was having an affair, yet you chose the word rape, which speaks volumes about your motives.

You also failed to mention this type of crime is illegal in Bangladash, which makes the only thing "rank and file" about your post, your islamophobia.


And you also failed to mention the abhorrently low prosecution and conviction rates for rape in Bangladesh. What does that say about your motivations?

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RE: Muslim thugs - 4/1/2013 2:49:31 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1
So significant that you refuse to discuss it, and stick to playing with strawmen instead.


I made a reference to Dave about my conversation with Tweak back on page 7:

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
I'm not sure why you're changing the conversation back here since I came into the conversation agreeing with you on this. My point of contention is that I dislike propaganda. I'm opposed to downplaying the severity of what is a serious problem.


What strawman do you think I'm making?

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RE: Muslim thugs - 4/1/2013 3:43:26 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
Your link states the girl was having an affair, yet you chose the word rape, which speaks volumes about your motives.

You also failed to mention this type of crime is illegal in Bangladash, which makes the only thing "rank and file" about your post, your islamophobia.


And you also failed to mention the abhorrently low prosecution and conviction rates for rape in Bangladesh. What does that say about your motivations?


Silly me huh, I didnt mention any conviction figures in the link because...........There were none.

So what does that say about your motiviations that your previous strawman post didnt..

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RE: Muslim thugs - 4/1/2013 7:45:12 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
So what does that say about your motiviations that your previous strawman post didnt..

What was the strawman? I'm asking because I don't see it. Please show me where it is?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
And you also failed to mention the abhorrently low prosecution and conviction rates for rape in Bangladesh. What does that say about your motivations?

Silly me huh, I didnt mention any conviction figures in the link because...........There were none.


I didn't say anything about that one link. I'm talking about the due diligence you should have done, you know making sure it's not just a law in name only. Instead of going off half cocked and calling somebody a bigot over something where you don't actually know what you're talking about.

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RE: Muslim thugs - 4/1/2013 10:43:47 PM   
GotSteel


Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline 		Sorry that I didn't get to responding to this promptly.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1
And yet you can't seem to find the actual post where I said anything that could rationally be construed as misstating his position. Small wonder, since I never posted one.

Care to share with the group how the dialectic is advanced by constantly interrupting productive discourse with these bogus derailments?


Actually Wants explained to you multiple things in this post which in no way represented his position:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1
Are you deliberately being dense? Singapore isn't Islamic.
Mohammed would have fit right in with the FDLS, or the primitiveBaptists as well


You haven't produced anything factual to support the notion that Islam uniquely causes anything that isn't old news in human history.


My post was one of agreeing with his statements that you've been noticeably misrepresenting him.

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Profile   Post #: 191
RE: Muslim thugs - 4/1/2013 11:12:56 PM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

Powergamez
You haven't produced anything factual to support the notion that Islam uniquely causes anything that isn't old news in human history.


This seems to me to be the critical point in this discussion. If people choose to assert that these levels of barbarism are unique to Islam, then they need to establish:
1. That it is only found in Islamic regions and nowhere else; and
2. That it is found in all Islamic regions.

Both of these points have been discussed in the thread and no credible evidence has been advanced to substantiate either point. OTOH several credible objections have been raised, and evidence that contradicts the assertion has been posted. Sadly, some people are ignoring these developments, developments that seem to me to make this assertion untenable. As the evidence is in front of their eyes, ignorance cannot be used as an explanation.

Therefore one has to wonder why some people feel the need to continue making this assertion . The only explanations I can see involve prejudice or an ideological imperative (or both).


< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 4/1/2013 11:17:33 PM >

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RE: Muslim thugs - 4/1/2013 11:28:11 PM   
WantsOfTheFlesh


Posts: 1226
Joined: 3/3/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
Sorry that I didn't get to responding to this promptly.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1
And yet you can't seem to find the actual post where I said anything that could rationally be construed as misstating his position. Small wonder, since I never posted one.

Care to share with the group how the dialectic is advanced by constantly interrupting productive discourse with these bogus derailments?

Actually Wants explained to you multiple things in this post which in no way represented his position:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1
Are you deliberately being dense? Singapore isn't Islamic.
Mohammed would have fit right in with the FDLS, or the primitiveBaptists as well

You haven't produced anything factual to support the notion that Islam uniquely causes anything that isn't old news in human history.

My post was one of agreeing with his statements that you've been noticeably misrepresenting him.

yup & i told powergamz tha same myself. cant believe he's still bellyaching. later he said i was lying bout his position but i asked him was tha islamic attitude towards women innate human behaviour or cultural http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4409309 & he said innate http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4409318 before backtracking.

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RE: Muslim thugs - 4/1/2013 11:31:45 PM   
WantsOfTheFlesh


Posts: 1226
Joined: 3/3/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
quote:

Powergamez
You haven't produced anything factual to support the notion that Islam uniquely causes anything that isn't old news in human history.


This seems to me to be the critical point in this discussion. If people choose to assert that these levels of barbarism are unique to Islam, then they need to establish:
1. That it is only found in Islamic regions and nowhere else; and
2. That it is found in all Islamic regions.

yr misrepresenting what i was saying & powergamz replied to. i was not claiming any unique phenomenon or claiming tha levels were unique to islam tho they may be.

plus why does it have to happen in "all" regions to be an islamic problem? ya know sufist influences found in southeast asia mellowed islam there along wit other cultural influences. that dont count for as much in other parts of the islamic world.

< Message edited by WantsOfTheFlesh -- 4/2/2013 12:09:41 AM >

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RE: Muslim thugs - 4/2/2013 12:30:43 AM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
quote:

Powergamez
You haven't produced anything factual to support the notion that Islam uniquely causes anything that isn't old news in human history.


This seems to me to be the critical point in this discussion. If people choose to assert that these levels of barbarism are unique to Islam, then they need to establish:
1. That it is only found in Islamic regions and nowhere else; and
2. That it is found in all Islamic regions.

yr misrepresenting what i was saying & powergamz replied to. i was not claiming any unique phenomenon or claiming tha levels were unique to islam tho they may be.


IF as you claim, you are not asserting this issue to be a uniquely Islamic issue, the using the term "Islamic/Muslim thugs" is at best misleading and at worst racist. And if you aren't asserting this, then what exactly are you asserting?

quote:

plus why does it have to happen in "all" regions to be an islamic problem? ya know sufist influences found in southeast asia mellowed islam there along wit other cultural influences. that dont count for as much in other parts of the islamic world.


You are correct to state that this issue is subject to cultural variation - it is present in some Islamic societies but absent from others. Anything issue of this nature that varies from culture to culture can only be a cultural issue, and therefore cannot be inherent to Islam. If it is inherent to Islam, it would be present in all Islamic societies.

These points seem to me so obvious they are almost self evident. These might appear to be minor points. But sloppy generalisations such as these form the basis for racist thinking. Therefore they are quite important, especially in view of the rampant Islamophobia I see here on these boards, and currently prevalent in the US and other parts of the West. If you are concerned to avoid the charge of racism, it's best to be sensitive to this kind of sloppy generalisation. If you are concerned to be accurate, then you will avoid this basic error.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 4/2/2013 12:34:12 AM >

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RE: Muslim thugs - 4/2/2013 1:31:11 AM   
Edwynn


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Joined: 10/26/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: searching4mysir

quote:

All three of the Abrahamic religions relegate women to an inferior status.



I beg to differ. The Catholic Church exalts Mary, the mother of Jesus as the only other perfect human being and as a model for humanity (not just women).


What is your idea of a "perfect woman." one who never has a penis inside her? A "perfect" man as never having his penis inside a woman?So then what transpires in bearing a child in her case as going completely against nature (or, a freak of nature, to be more accurate) is considered to be "perfect" in this estimation?

The few humans who defy nature in service to those who despise nature (religionists) are to be considered "perfect," then?

Humans create a religion and confine their god to their own estimation of what he should be, then proceed further to tell him where he went wrong regarding nature, disguised in "the good books" as god telling humans where they went wrong.

Humans who have such congenital condition as to deny them of operable vagina or penis are considered as "perfect," or at least candidates for such designation, in this scheme of things.

I don't know what sick nuns you grew up with, but the nuns I grew up with let me know all about Mary Magdelene, and that the basis of the Catholic faith was acceptance of quite imperfect humans, working genitals and the whole lot.

PS

Screw the Popes and the Bishops, they didn't teach in my class, did they? Didn't do a damn thing for rank and file Catholics, other than to spout nonsense and offer no help to those who suffered a lifetime of misery from having more kids than they could deal with as result of this nonsense.

Mary, wife of Joseph, didn't have 8 kids, did she? So why are the Pope and the Cardinals telling all the Catholic women to be as "perfect" as they can be, but have more kids?

As I say, at least I grew up with some semi-sane nuns.

< Message edited by Edwynn -- 4/2/2013 2:21:26 AM >

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RE: Muslim thugs - 4/2/2013 1:52:05 AM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
You are correct to state that this issue is subject to cultural variation - it is present in some Islamic societies but absent from others. Anything issue of this nature that varies from culture to culture can only be a cultural issue, and therefore cannot be inherent to Islam. If it is inherent to Islam, it would be present in all Islamic societies.

Not necessarily in all Islamic societies tweak.
It can manifest itself in the majority of them and it would still be correct to assert that 'Islam' is a big problem.

We all know that there are probably quite a large proportion of the catholic hierarchy that either took part in, or helped to cover up, or knew of others that were involved but chose to keep quiet about, the pedophilia that seems so rife in that religion. But it would be unfair to say that all of them were in on it or that none of them were.

The same for the general traits of those who follow the Islamic faith.
From all sorts of news and other media reports, all across the predominantly Islamic regions, the thuggery, especially against women, is most certainly rife.
You can't say that all the media is wrong on this - it's too common across the spectrum to rule that out like you would if it were only from Faux News.
And there appears to be far less of the non-thugs that also don't speak out against it or even attempt to stop it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
These points seem to me so obvious they are almost self evident. These might appear to be minor points. But sloppy generalisations such as these form the basis for racist thinking. Therefore they are quite important, especially in view of the rampant Islamophobia I see here on these boards, and currently prevalent in the US and other parts of the West. If you are concerned to avoid the charge of racism, it's best to be sensitive to this kind of sloppy generalisation. If you are concerned to be accurate, then you will avoid this basic error.

It's not so 100-0 black and white though is it?
It's not racist if a huge majority are a problem even if there are some that don't form part of said problem and it certainly couldn't be classed as Islamophobia or racist thinking.

I wouldn't call it a 'sloppy generalisation' because the inference wasn't that all Islamists were like it, nor that it was wholly confined within that one faith.

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Profile   Post #: 197
RE: Muslim thugs - 4/2/2013 3:02:12 AM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline 		The fact that the church (all of them) consider that what nature requires for procreation is considered a sin in all these same religions tells us all we need to know about these religions.

Orwell was talking to recent events in his books, but the ancient books could not have been outside the subconscious as inspiration for the "double-speak" so bespoke in 1984. Orwell and Goebells learned from what they read.

Make the lie more absurd, more impossible, threaten people with the notion that the unknown is more scary than the absurd.

Game won.




< Message edited by Edwynn -- 4/2/2013 3:12:51 AM >

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RE: Muslim thugs - 4/2/2013 3:03:05 AM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		Thank you freedomdwarf for that hilarious parody of a lesson in logic. You had me in stitches.

Your rendition of an idiot floundering hopelessly out of his depth trying to sound on top of a subject he obviously knew nothing about was flawless. Well done!

And I had a feeling you were on the other side of this discussion - just goes to show doesn't it?

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 4/2/2013 3:13:05 AM >

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RE: Muslim thugs - 4/2/2013 3:09:08 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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Joined: 10/23/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Thank you for that hilarious parody of a lesson in logic. You had me in stitches.

Your rendition of an idiot floundering hopelessly out of his depth trying to sound on top of a subject he obviously knew nothing about was flawless.

And I had a feeling you were on the other side of this discussion - just goes to show doesn't it?

You simply painted a totally black and white picture by claiming if the assertion were true then it would have be all Islamics otherwise it was only 'a cultural issue' or racist thinking.

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Profile   Post #: 200
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