RE: Amanda Knox retrial? (Full Version)

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Politesub53 -> RE: Amanda Knox retrial? (3/26/2013 5:18:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280

Again, evade what???? Timeline: the italians arrested her. She was duely tried. She was acquitted by an Italian court..... The Italians Freed her. They gave her passport back to her and she flew back. Once they let her get on a plane, they gave up any jurisdiction they had. Justice was served. Period. Now if they want to file a wrongful death suit that is a different game.

Again, how about we just retry anyone aquitted of a crime?....



Sighs......... She wasnt acquited, she won an appeal. The Italian Prosecutor has appealed against the appeal. Thats how Italian law woks.




LookieNoNookie -> RE: Amanda Knox retrial? (3/26/2013 5:47:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

An Italian court now wants to retry Amanda Knox. Despite her aquittal, Italy is asking the United States to send her back. In Italy, there is no double jeopordy law. But she's here now, not there. Can the United States send her back without violating our double jeopardy law? This is the same country that sent seismologists to prison for failing to predict an earthquake. What do you think? Can/should she be sent back?


It's a basic issue...if she's guilty of the crime and is later convicted, she should serve appropriate time.

I don't really understand what all the fuss is about, the state lost their case on the first go round, they now want another bite at the apple via appeal...we do that here all the time in our courts. It's not even remotely unusual.

If they lose, second time's a charm, it'sover. If they win, she goes to prison.

Just 'cause she's a cute chic doesn't mean she didn't do the deed.




LookieNoNookie -> RE: Amanda Knox retrial? (3/26/2013 5:48:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u


quote:

ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh

should be sent back coz italy aint pakistan. reckon shes guilty as sin & natural justice shouldnt have borders.

What the fuck is "natural justice" ?
One bite at the apple is a "bedrock" American legal principal,why should that be violated ?



If that were true, there wouldn't be a legal term: Appeal.




Hillwilliam -> RE: Amanda Knox retrial? (3/26/2013 5:52:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie


quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

An Italian court now wants to retry Amanda Knox. Despite her aquittal, Italy is asking the United States to send her back. In Italy, there is no double jeopordy law. But she's here now, not there. Can the United States send her back without violating our double jeopardy law? This is the same country that sent seismologists to prison for failing to predict an earthquake. What do you think? Can/should she be sent back?


It's a basic issue...if she's guilty of the crime and is later convicted, she should serve appropriate time.

I don't really understand what all the fuss is about, the state lost their case on the first go round, they now want another bite at the apple via appeal...we do that here all the time in our courts. It's not even remotely unusual.

If they lose, second time's a charm, it'sover. If they win, she goes to prison.

Just 'cause she's a cute chic doesn't mean she didn't do the deed.

Appeal goes one way.
The defendant can appeal but the state can't. The state can only re-idict the defendant on different charges. (which usually isnt too dificult).
If you get accused of murder 1 and are acquitted, the state can't try you again.
They CAN, howver, re-indict you on other charges like conspiracy or violating the civil rights of the dead perso.




Hillwilliam -> RE: Amanda Knox retrial? (3/26/2013 5:53:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280

Again, evade what???? Timeline: the italians arrested her. She was duely tried. She was acquitted by an Italian court..... The Italians Freed her. They gave her passport back to her and she flew back. Once they let her get on a plane, they gave up any jurisdiction they had. Justice was served. Period. Now if they want to file a wrongful death suit that is a different game.

Again, how about we just retry anyone aquitted of a crime?....



Sighs......... She wasnt acquited, she won an appeal. The Italian Prosecutor has appealed against the appeal. Thats how Italian law woks.

That's right and by the US constitution, if you win on appeal, it's game over.




Politesub53 -> RE: Amanda Knox retrial? (3/26/2013 6:04:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280

Again, evade what???? Timeline: the italians arrested her. She was duely tried. She was acquitted by an Italian court..... The Italians Freed her. They gave her passport back to her and she flew back. Once they let her get on a plane, they gave up any jurisdiction they had. Justice was served. Period. Now if they want to file a wrongful death suit that is a different game.

Again, how about we just retry anyone aquitted of a crime?....



Sighs......... She wasnt acquited, she won an appeal. The Italian Prosecutor has appealed against the appeal. Thats how Italian law woks.

That's right and by the US constitution, if you win on appeal, it's game over.


What dont you people get. She committed a crime Italy, she was tried in Italy, that has sweet FA to do with the US Constitution.




BitaTruble -> RE: Amanda Knox retrial? (3/26/2013 6:16:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53




Sighs......... She wasnt acquited, she won an appeal. The Italian Prosecutor has appealed against the appeal. Thats how Italian law woks.

IIRC ( disclaimer: I'm aging fast, in pain and post-menopausal so I don't even rely on my own memory!) it was actually both.

She was tried. She was convicted. She appealed and won the re-trial she wanted. She was re-tried and subsequent to that re-trial she was acquitted, released and her passport returned whereupon she left Italy toot-sweet.

That's the way I remember it but I'm too tired to google and check. Where's that google Queen Tazzy.. maybe she'll do my homework for me. [8D]




Politesub53 -> RE: Amanda Knox retrial? (3/26/2013 6:20:49 PM)

Bita.......Just for you :)

I dont recall a second trial myself.

http://www.columbian.com/news/2011/oct/03/italy-appeals-court-clears-knox-murder/




vincentML -> RE: Amanda Knox retrial? (3/26/2013 6:39:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280

Again, evade what???? Timeline: the italians arrested her. She was duely tried. She was acquitted by an Italian court..... The Italians Freed her. They gave her passport back to her and she flew back. Once they let her get on a plane, they gave up any jurisdiction they had. Justice was served. Period. Now if they want to file a wrongful death suit that is a different game.

Again, how about we just retry anyone aquitted of a crime?....



Sighs......... She wasnt acquited, she won an appeal. The Italian Prosecutor has appealed against the appeal. Thats how Italian law woks.

Exactly. Now the High Court remanded the case back to the Appeals Court for clarification of some unknown points. A new trial has not been ordered and may not be. Time will tell.




eulero83 -> RE: Amanda Knox retrial? (3/26/2013 6:41:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53




Sighs......... She wasnt acquited, she won an appeal. The Italian Prosecutor has appealed against the appeal. Thats how Italian law woks.

IIRC ( disclaimer: I'm aging fast, in pain and post-menopausal so I don't even rely on my own memory!) it was actually both.

She was tried. She was convicted. She appealed and won the re-trial she wanted. She was re-tried and subsequent to that re-trial she was acquitted, released and her passport returned whereupon she left Italy toot-sweet.

That's the way I remember it but I'm too tired to google and check. Where's that google Queen Tazzy.. maybe she'll do my homework for me. [8D]



to be precise in italian law re-trial is a costitutional right, you (or accuse) don't need to win it you just ask, and it's considered round two of a single trial, than after appeal can be asked a rewiew, if a mistake is found in the second part of the trial it's repeted. But as you told she was released as if in any part of the trial you are acquitted you are free, anyhow I don't think italian governament will ask estradation now as being present to her trial is a right not a duty, so she actually supposed innocent untill a conviction order, that gets active only two years after the verdict if no rewiew is asked, or if a rewiew is asked and rejected. It will take years.




Hillwilliam -> RE: Amanda Knox retrial? (3/26/2013 6:41:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280

Again, evade what???? Timeline: the italians arrested her. She was duely tried. She was acquitted by an Italian court..... The Italians Freed her. They gave her passport back to her and she flew back. Once they let her get on a plane, they gave up any jurisdiction they had. Justice was served. Period. Now if they want to file a wrongful death suit that is a different game.

Again, how about we just retry anyone aquitted of a crime?....



Sighs......... She wasnt acquited, she won an appeal. The Italian Prosecutor has appealed against the appeal. Thats how Italian law woks.

That's right and by the US constitution, if you win on appeal, it's game over.


What dont you people get. She committed a crime Italy, she was tried in Italy, that has sweet FA to do with the US Constitution.

Because she is an American citizen who is presently residng on American soil.
She is therefore entitled to the protections of our constitution.
When Iran issued a Fatwah on Salmon Rushdie and sentenced him to death, you didn't see us shipping him over did you? why? He was protected as a US citizen by our constitution and the Iranians could go pound sand.
Did you bother to read Bita's very concise explanation in post #30 of when the US wll extradite someone?




LookieNoNookie -> RE: Amanda Knox retrial? (3/26/2013 6:44:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie


quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

An Italian court now wants to retry Amanda Knox. Despite her aquittal, Italy is asking the United States to send her back. In Italy, there is no double jeopordy law. But she's here now, not there. Can the United States send her back without violating our double jeopardy law? This is the same country that sent seismologists to prison for failing to predict an earthquake. What do you think? Can/should she be sent back?


It's a basic issue...if she's guilty of the crime and is later convicted, she should serve appropriate time.

I don't really understand what all the fuss is about, the state lost their case on the first go round, they now want another bite at the apple via appeal...we do that here all the time in our courts. It's not even remotely unusual.

If they lose, second time's a charm, it'sover. If they win, she goes to prison.

Just 'cause she's a cute chic doesn't mean she didn't do the deed.

Appeal goes one way.
The defendant can appeal but the state can't. The state can only re-idict the defendant on different charges. (which usually isnt too dificult).
If you get accused of murder 1 and are acquitted, the state can't try you again.
They CAN, howver, re-indict you on other charges like conspiracy or violating the civil rights of the dead perso.


Semantics essentially...the result is the same.

New trial based on new information.




Hillwilliam -> RE: Amanda Knox retrial? (3/26/2013 6:48:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie



Semantics essentially...the result is the same.

New trial based on new information.

The Italians didn't do that. Charges are the same. Therefore, they are in violation of the US constitution which protects us.
Did you bother to read Bita's very concise explanation in post #30?




LafayetteLady -> RE: Amanda Knox retrial? (3/26/2013 8:36:46 PM)

The US Constitution DOES NOT protect US Citizens from crimes in other countries, just like people who have committed crimes in this country are not protected by their native countries laws.

This may or may not be considered double jeopardy, it remains to be seen. If I were Amanda Knox I wouldn't be thumbing my nose at the Italians going, "Na, na, you can't get me."




YN -> RE: Amanda Knox retrial? (3/26/2013 8:58:42 PM)

The legal terms have a somewhat differing meaning under the Civil Code. She s still engaged in the appellate court process, and the Italian "Supreme" court has sent the matter back with instructions to a lower appellate court for their actions.

If she were at the same stage of her appeal in the United States, she would either still be in prison, or be on bail pending further lower court proceedings consistent with the ruling of your Supreme Court,.




tazzygirl -> RE: Amanda Knox retrial? (3/26/2013 9:07:31 PM)

quote:

That's the way I remember it but I'm too tired to google and check. Where's that google Queen Tazzy.. maybe she'll do my homework for me.


On November 1, 2007, Meredith Kercher was murdered in the apartment she shared with Knox. On November 6, 2007, Knox was arrested by the Italian police and, along with Sollecito, charged with the murder of Kercher. During the subsequent four-year trial and appeal process she was held under cautionary detention (carcerazione preventiva) at the Capanne prison in Perugia. In 2009, Knox and Sollecito were convicted of sexual assault, murder and simulating a burglary at the first level (primo grado) of trial (see Italian Criminal Procedure).

However, according to Italian law, she would not be considered guilty until the verdict was confirmed by higher courts.[8] During her appeal at the second level (secondo grado) of trial, which concluded on October 3, 2011, the original conviction was overturned, she was found innocent of the murder and she was released from prison.[9][10]

However, on March 25, 2013 the Italian Court of Cassation overturned Knox's acquittal and ordered a retrial at an appellate court in Florence.[11]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amanda_Knox



Review of trial

When new evidence is discovered, that by itself or together with that presented during the trial might justify an acquittal, the convict, his next of kin, his guardian, his heir — if the convict is dead — or the Procuratore Generale presso la Corte d'Appello (the Public Prosecutor attached to the Court of Appeals) may apply to the Court of Appeals for a review of trial.
The Court decides de plano with an ordinanza if the application is receivable; if it deems it is not, the losing party can appeal the ordinanza before the Corte di Cassazione.
If the Court of Appeals, or the Court of Cassation, deems that the application is receivable, the second part of the review begins before the Court of Appeals itself. During the new trial, the Court reexamines all evidence and can acquit the defendant or uphold his conviction; the verdict is, then appealable before the Court of Cassation.
Even if an application for review was turned down before, the convict can apply again, so long as he presents new evidence.
A "not guilty" verdict, which has become irrevocable — that has been upheld by the Court of Cassation, that is to say —, can never be reviewed.
Other cases of review are as follows:
the conviction was based upon the facts ascertained by a civil or administrative Judge and his judgement has been revoked;
the conviction was the consequence of perjury, bribery or of another crime and the conviction for this crime is irrevocable;
there is discrepancy between the findings of fact contained in the conviction and in another irrevocable one.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_Criminal_Procedure

Hope that helps!

Queen Tazzy of the Google Kingdom!




slvemike4u -> RE: Amanda Knox retrial? (3/26/2013 9:14:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie


quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

An Italian court now wants to retry Amanda Knox. Despite her aquittal, Italy is asking the United States to send her back. In Italy, there is no double jeopordy law. But she's here now, not there. Can the United States send her back without violating our double jeopardy law? This is the same country that sent seismologists to prison for failing to predict an earthquake. What do you think? Can/should she be sent back?


It's a basic issue...if she's guilty of the crime and is later convicted, she should serve appropriate time.

I don't really understand what all the fuss is about, the state lost their case on the first go round, they now want another bite at the apple via appeal...we do that here all the time in our courts. It's not even remotely unusual.

If they lose, second time's a charm, it'sover. If they win, she goes to prison.

Just 'cause she's a cute chic doesn't mean she didn't do the deed.

You are mistaken,while a defendant has the right to an appeal...the state does not.
Not unless the state can show that jeopardy was never in question,like a bribed juror,or a crooked judge
No defendant should stand in jeopardy of losing their liberty twice for one crime.......it's sort of a linchpin of American Justice and given the preponderance of power that the state wields it is a necessary ingredient to a fair system(or at least one as fair as anything where money or lack thereof plays a part can be )




slvemike4u -> RE: Amanda Knox retrial? (3/26/2013 9:18:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280

Again, evade what???? Timeline: the italians arrested her. She was duely tried. She was acquitted by an Italian court..... The Italians Freed her. They gave her passport back to her and she flew back. Once they let her get on a plane, they gave up any jurisdiction they had. Justice was served. Period. Now if they want to file a wrongful death suit that is a different game.

Again, how about we just retry anyone aquitted of a crime?....



Sighs......... She wasnt acquited, she won an appeal. The Italian Prosecutor has appealed against the appeal. Thats how Italian law woks.

That's right and by the US constitution, if you win on appeal, it's game over.


What dont you people get. She committed a crime Italy, she was tried in Italy, that has sweet FA to do with the US Constitution.

Au contrair my friend,,,,,she is an American presently on American soil.
And that has Fuck all to do with the Italian justice system,or their wants and needs :-)
You don't have to like it,the italians don't have to like it....but someone will need to satisfy an AMERICAN court before she will ever stand in the docket abroad.
That's just reality Polite,plain and simple.




slvemike4u -> RE: Amanda Knox retrial? (3/26/2013 9:26:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

The US Constitution DOES NOT protect US Citizens from crimes in other countries, just like people who have committed crimes in this country are not protected by their native countries laws.

This may or may not be considered double jeopardy, it remains to be seen. If I were Amanda Knox I wouldn't be thumbing my nose at the Italians going, "Na, na, you can't get me."

How exactly does that work ?
She is home,but not due the protections of the same Constitution that protects the rest of us ?
Really ?
By what logic does that work,did she return from Italy as some sort of half citizen ?
Since the very foundation of the US justice system is "innocence till proof of guilt" how and under what reasoning's have some of her protections been stripped away prior to a finding of guilt ?




BamaD -> RE: Amanda Knox retrial? (3/26/2013 9:39:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u


quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

The US Constitution DOES NOT protect US Citizens from crimes in other countries, just like people who have committed crimes in this country are not protected by their native countries laws.

This may or may not be considered double jeopardy, it remains to be seen. If I were Amanda Knox I wouldn't be thumbing my nose at the Italians going, "Na, na, you can't get me."

How exactly does that work ?
She is home,but not due the protections of the same Constitution that protects the rest of us ?
Really ?
By what logic does that work,did she return from Italy as some sort of half citizen ?
Since the very foundation of the US justice system is "innocence till proof of guilt" how and under what reasoning's have some of her protections been stripped away prior to a finding of guilt ?

They have to extridite, our courts will have to decide about our constitutions protection. Actually they will have to decide if our Constitution takes presedence over Italian law on our soil.
It would seem that if theydon't send her back she should never leave the U S again as another country could detain and extridite.




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