quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

quote:

One of my political science professors back in college said that the spectrum was a circle...Stalin may have been communist, Putin may be "capitalist" (in quotes because I don't think that he really believes in the basic ideas of capitalism...call it cronyism), but are either of them really that different from the other? It's just a different vehicle for power and tyranny, with the same end result.

This is just insane. There is a night and day difference between Putin and Stalin. Its not even close. Mentioning the two in the same sentence is just plain stupid and ignorant. Putin is not in the business of mass executions of innocent people. His methods are not comparable to Stalin and neither is his personality or disposition.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AlittleCrazy098

As much as I hate the man with a passion and think he is an enemy to America. At least the man stands for something and enforces LAWS unlike the numerous of leaders we have running this country. I bet Putin is one of the few people that will say "no" to the modern day robber barons unlike somebody that's in office.

quote:

The left haven't been beholden to Russia since 1956 - look up the New Left, Kruschev's Secret Speech, the Suez Crisis, the counter-revolution in Hungary.

quote:

ORIGINAL: YN

George Bush was right about that one thing, but should have qualified that this is only correct while you and he (Putin) both understand what the rules are that you play by.

If George Bush had this discernment of the rules in any reality is a different question.

quote:

I am sure the lefties will find a way to support and white wash Putin and absolve him of any bigotry over this.

quote:

Again - Thompson, Kolakowski, Gramsci. They are my validation for my beliefs. I'm not about to get into a pissing contest,
"A man's got to know his limitations."

quote:

but your post assumed I would think the USA more palatable than the USSR.

I made no such assmption

quote:

Do you perhaps have any rhetoric of your own to add here, or do you deal solely in acerbic comments?

All I have asked you to do is validate themoronic asswipe contained in your post.

quote:

I'm not going to defend myself

At leastyou have the common sense not to engage in futile tasks.

quote:

against someone who hasn't even bothered to state a position.

My position is that your post are nothing more than cold war rhetoric and are not capable of being defended in any rational or logical manner

(in reply to thezeppo)

quote:

No comparison at all. Stalin was responsible for the deaths of uncounted tens of millions before WW2 and during the great retribution after the war. Guilt or innocence were never an issue. The most massive ethnic cleansings in history probably. He was a greater monster than Hitler imo.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thezeppo

Why would I bother, when you have decided already that everyone except for you is a moron?

quote:

I might well be rooted in the cold war, my dissertation is in that time period and I will freely admit my engagement with Marxism focuses far more on that period. Why don't you actually try to enlighten me on why it would be moronic to discuss Marxism in terms of the Cold War?

quote:

I like to learn, but I respect a good teacher and so far you are doing nothing but making yourself feel superior.

quote:

The issue that I have with trying to discuss Marxism outside of cold war terms is that in political terms it is difficult to imagine it as relevant after the end of the Cold War. When I say Marxism never recovered from Stalinism, I am talking mainly of the principle of Democratic Centralism, which it appears the OP assumed still existed today judging by his assumption that leftists would whitewash Putin.

quote:

I have to say, so far it appears that you adhere to that principle yourself as you seem bent on rubbishing any suggestion that Stalin was responsible for millions of deaths, or that people would consider that important.

quote:

I don't know you, I have no idea what your political leanings are,

quote:

and so if I want to discuss this with you you are forcing me to do it only on your terms, to jump through your hoops by asserting positions for you to ridicule.

quote:

If we assume that I would like to see some sort of development of a political movement in Britain that utilises Marxist principles, then in my opinion this should be focused around humanistic rather than structuralist theory. I'm fully aware that Thompson especially struggled to move past the cold war, but The Making of the English Working Class and An Open Letter to Leszek Kolakowski provides two perspectives which I think are useful today. The notion of class as forming as the result of shared experience leading to a higher moral standard I think is pertinent in the wake of movements like Occupy and the preoccupation with the 1% that has formed as a result of the recession. The idea of Marxism as a tradition is really the only way in which the fragmented strands of the Left can come together today, in my opinion.

I recently read Cultural Marxism in Postwar Britain so I am aware that Marxism is more than a political movement, and that in many ways it is still influential. I would like to see Marxism as a political force in my country, and I think perceptions left over from the USSR are a serious obstacle to that aim.

quote:

If you disagree with that please tell me why, I am always happy to have a constructive discussion about a subject I am passionate about, and I am equally willing to learn. I do not assume that I have all the answers.

quote:


If you opt for cheap point scoring again though, I will work out how to hide your profile and continue as if you don't exist.

quote:


ETA: Looking at your profile, I genuinely think it would be a shame if I had to do that

quote:

And anyone who believes Lenin and Stalin were not responsible for millions of unnecessary deaths in the Soviet Union is either in denial of reality, or a blatant revisionist.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

And anyone who believes Lenin and Stalin were not responsible for millions of unnecessary deaths in the Soviet Union is either in denial of reality, or a blatant revisionist.

If someone points out a historical lie is that your definition of revisionism?
If you believe that lennin and stalin were responsible for millions of unnecessary deaths in the soviet union how many million deaths were necessary?

quote:

ORIGINAL: YN

Pure communism contains several contradictions that cannot be resolved, due to the fact that ordinary people and not saints and heroes will be under its auspices.

The first is that there will always be a certain class structure, in spite of heroic attempts to eliminate it, the best one can hope for is a merit based social and political mobility.

The next being that there are many things that cannot feasibly or efficiently be collectivized, the most important being agriculture, as the Russians, Chinese, Cubans and so forth have discovered to their chagrin.

quote:

Other occupations which are "arts" instead of "sciences" are also generally seen as unfit for collectivization,

quote:

few top restaurants are run by the state.

quote:

Small "craft" and "service" businesses, musical, literary, and other artistic endeavors fail under state control. Then there is a state run religion.

quote:

Anyway the Marxists have had a century to attempt to correct these conflicts and have generally failed and have pragmatically "bent the knee" to these realities.

quote:

ORIGINAL: YN

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

And anyone who believes Lenin and Stalin were not responsible for millions of unnecessary deaths in the Soviet Union is either in denial of reality, or a blatant revisionist.

If someone points out a historical lie is that your definition of revisionism?
If you believe that lennin and stalin were responsible for millions of unnecessary deaths in the soviet union how many million deaths were necessary?

quote:

Millions less then Lenin and Stalin killed or caused to die, that is certain.
All that is certain is that your post lacks any sort of validation

quote:

But it is interested you defend whats is regarded as a great Marxist failure.

What exactly is it that you feel I am defending?

quote:

I would use the example of Cuba if I were attempting to defend Marxism, instead of a Soviet state overturned by the working classes due to the contradictions and failings built into it from the beginning.

Where have I sought to defend marxism?

< Message edited by thompsonx -- 4/2/2013 12:30:34 PM >

(in reply to YN)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: YN

Pure communism contains several contradictions that cannot be resolved, due to the fact that ordinary people and not saints and heroes will be under its auspices.

The first is that there will always be a certain class structure, in spite of heroic attempts to eliminate it, the best one can hope for is a merit based social and political mobility.

The next being that there are many things that cannot feasibly or efficiently be collectivized, the most important being agriculture, as the Russians, Chinese, Cubans and so forth have discovered to their chagrin.

You clearly do not know much about farming.
Perhaps you might enlighten us as to the precise differences between agri-biz and collective farming?

quote:

quote:

Other occupations which are "arts" instead of "sciences" are also generally seen as unfit for collectivization,

Perhaps you might want to acquaint yourself with the "arts" projects funded and developed by the federal government in the u.s. durring the "great depression". Of course throughout history the state has sponsord artists like michal angelo,mozart chopin and maplethorp to name a few.

quote:

quote:

few top restaurants are run by the state.

Until you have eaten in the senate dining room the above statement is less than valid.

quote:

quote:

Small "craft" and "service" businesses, musical, literary, and other artistic endeavors fail under state control. Then there is a state run religion.

That seems to work in the vatican.

quote:

You are not really on a first name bassis with history are you.
Do you really feel that russia was better off under the tsar?

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

I am sure the lefties will find a way to support and white wash Putin and absolve him of any bigotry over this.



Putin orders ban on adoptions by foreign same-sex couples