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RE: Is it wrong I feel so pressured? - 4/4/2013 7:31:57 AM   
BlkTallFullfig


Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline 		This sounds like a disaster, from word go, and I have no idea why you keep saying you love him very much, given his treatment, and forceful behavior toward you.
Maybe you want him to take you nonconsensually, given you don't live together, but are all over him, staying overnight, saying you really want him, and love him???!!!

Where is all this love coming from? The more like an ass a man behaves, the more devoted you become?
There is another aspect to this: You say you are submissive, and he is controlling, but you're not happy with that; perhaps you are looking for more of a BDSM player/dominant, than simply a controlling, inconsiderate troll.
Good luck, M

_____________________________

a.k.a. SexyBossyBBW
""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

(in reply to cravelizzybabe)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Is it wrong I feel so pressured? - 4/4/2013 7:46:31 AM   
absolutchocolat


Posts: 1392
Status: offline 		What I am trying to figure out is why you would be anywhere near his dick after only seeing him once or twice.

Online communication -- Skype, texting, e-mail and the like -- make you feel like you really know someone, right? I bet he said all kinds of things your tender, young mind wants to hear. How much he loves you and wants to dominate you, etc. Then you meet in person, and he's just another red-blooded male who wants a blowjob.

Honey, please do this. Go to a munch and find an older, more experienced submissive and ask her questions. Make friends. See what real dominance looks like. I am not going to spout off about what that could mean, but a key factor is the ability and desire to learn. And actually, that is true of submissives as well.

Your needs are important, remember that. Yes, you do have your pick of men because you are young, but it is clear that you need to learn boundaries. You need to learn that not every man is worth submitting to. What if this guy requested more than a blowjob and wanted penetrative sex? Would you have gone through with it?

Take a good, long look at this situation. Forget this guy. You two are not equally yoked, and unless you are a real emotional masochist and drama llama, you'll spend some time learning more about yourself and what you really want. Start with this article, A Submissive's Guide to Safe, Sane, and Consensual. The Acid Test for Dominants is also a gem. They both underscore the importance of knowing what you want in another person. Sounds like you have a lot to learn, too.

(in reply to cravelizzybabe)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Is it wrong I feel so pressured? - 4/4/2013 7:48:52 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: absolutchocolat



Honey, please do this. Go to a munch and find an older, more experienced submissive and ask her questions. Make friends.



THIS 100%.

Find another sub to mentor you. Unfortunately, a lot of Dominants who want to 'mentor' a pretty young submissive only want to get their dick wet.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to absolutchocolat)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Is it wrong I feel so pressured? - 4/4/2013 7:55:09 AM   
BlkTallFullfig


Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC
And for god's sake don't confuse ANYTHING in your fantasy with actual dominance or submission. Honestly, it doesn't even sound like you are bottoming to me. It sounds like you're trying to dominate/top your boyfriend and doing a damned fine job of it.
I actually agreed with this part of JeffBC's post, and thought additionally, that it was comparable in sentiment with
quote:

descrite
Please apologize to this young man for appearing to be something he wanted and wasting his time, and let him move on.
The flavor, frequency, tempo, style, position, duration, tone, and pressure can all be negotiated, but the sex must be a given.
In both of these cases, we agree I believe, that they met on a BDSM site, and wanted to enter into a D/s relationship. D/s would be nice if it came with love for everyone, but the fact of the matter is, love has nothing to do with D/s necessarily. All that is necessarily is age of consent, and consent. She does not out and out tell that she told him she is his for the taking... Did they discuss, when you consent once, you may not withdraw it during sex? Did they discuss, "even if I tell you I don't want it, I want you to keep going?" Why did she change her mind, wanting/begging to do him, once he told her to stop doing a hand Job?

If I met someone, who goes out with me, agrees to consent, and in fact, let us pretend, a "no limit submission," where I can ask him to do anything, and take anything from him I desire. Let us say, we went out, and I did that. Would I be getting stoned for following through, and taking what I wanted? Obviously, I hope someone never submits, has sex, than regrets it, but just from knowing only her side of the story, with "I'll submit, am attracted to you, will have sex with you, and I love you," are usually words that say go, go, go. I don't think this potentially incomplete story should in any way make him a turd, and her the virtuous one.
YMMV, M


_____________________________

a.k.a. SexyBossyBBW
""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Is it wrong I feel so pressured? - 4/4/2013 8:00:01 AM   
lilmisssubmiss


Posts: 284
Joined: 9/29/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cordeliasub

quote:

What we look for in women is sex. The flavor, frequency, tempo, style, position, duration, tone, and pressure can all be negotiated, but the sex must be a given.


This explains so much......

OP, I do think you would benefit from spending some time knowing exactly what you want and exactly what you are ready for....and then making sure that you share that - and only that - with someone that you are becoming close to. What this man did was asshattish (is that a word?), but you did send some mixed signals. Once you know yourself, then stand firm with what you know....don't try to be what you think someone wants you to be - be YOU.



(I'm going to ignore other people's posts, but I do understand why they are jumping to those conclusions.)

I actually was trained for two years under a very much older and very well known dominant in LA. I am going to remain annonymous about who it was, but I did learn how to submit, and what it felt like to submit with my body, heart, soul, and mind.

I know it seems like "wow you have no idea what you want" but you have to understand, the first time I met him was MUCH different. I was impressed he could handle me with strictness (which I found out later turned to force during the second time I met him).

I've spent hours explaining to him about training, protocol, bdsm play, and what I need to submit. I KNOW I need my heart and mind to submit in order for me to become submissive. I just was trying to figure it out with someone around my own age, and most guys get intimidated because they see who've I've been with and what I know. It's not that I expect things to be the same, but if you don't know, I expect you learn to.

I actually know very much what I want. I think he told me a lot of things that he didn't really understand, I mistook some of the cultural things for dominance, yes. A lot of misunderstandings. When feelings formed, it made it even harder to distinguish what had happened.

I'm learning - but I don't think I'm a threat because I'm trying to figure out what I want. There are ways to make me feel comfortable even as a submissive. My ex master didn't even mention sex until I came begging for it. My ex master even asked if a bj was okay (even though he was a forceful man the first time he wanted to know it was okay) and he was gentle, I felt safe. Same with everything we tried at first, he always worked me up. But, then again, this man had years and years of experience.

I think I've screwed myself because a guy around my age........has no idea what he is doing.

*shrug*

(in reply to cordeliasub)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Is it wrong I feel so pressured? - 4/4/2013 8:01:41 AM   
lilmisssubmiss


Posts: 284
Joined: 9/29/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: searching4mysir

Lizzy,

Words are cheap. The determination for character is does his actions meet up with his words? From what you have written here, the answer is no. The man sexually assaulted you by trying to force you to blow him and you are making excuses for him.

Isn't that true for most abusive relationships??

As others have said - he's domineering, not dominant.
Two very different things indeed!!

I would cut all ties with this man(?!?) [monster] and hightail it well away from him.

Just my


I've been thinking for quite some time now actually, that it's way more domineering than dominant.

Just because I am asking for advice doesn't mean I haven't thought through everything. For me, talking about things and hearings others helps me, even if I've thought about it and know the same thing.

And, yes , I do know I led him on some, and I did make some mistakes during this process that I know I shouldn't have. I'm learning.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Is it wrong I feel so pressured? - 4/4/2013 8:05:14 AM   
lilmisssubmiss


Posts: 284
Joined: 9/29/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar
In what twisted, scary parallel universe did Jeff say anything related to the rest of your post?

Well, not this scary parallel universe obviously. I pretty much disagree point by point with descrite's view.

To clarify, what I do think is that a woman's state of mind is the only thing that separates "great lover" from "rapist". That state of mind forms "consent" based upon whatever desires and personal boundaries she has. This woman, I think, is a risk to men around her because she has no personal boundaries, only some personal desires, and everything that happens to her seems to be someone else's fault. In other words, I don't think she can form "consent" even in her own mind. If she was able for form some yes/no answer and actually own it herself I don't think she could communicate it to anyone else. So I think she does the men around her a favor by avoiding having a sexual affair with them until such a time as she can clearly formulate and communicate consent.

This is the sort of story that rather horrifically (to me) makes me nod my head in understanding when I hear Republicans talking about "legitimate rape".



I never called it rape. Was it along the lines of rape? YES, was it total rape? NO. Do I think it was nice he couldn't control his cock and after I said no sex he forced me to the ground to give him a bj? No. I just lost a lot of respect for him.

And, I can communicate quite clearly what I want and need, way more than an average person around my age. Why I am so fed up , I've explained and explained many things to him, given him the proper resources and readings, too. Even asked him to meet with a local dominant who could help. He said he would try, I thought he had the natural ability which would make it easier, but as time went on, I saw he is just domineering, and a boy who has no idea what he is doing. Yes, I gave him some mixed signals, which I am not proud of. You are right, I am learning a bit about how to be in a relationship where I know the most, which I am not use to, but it's no sin.

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Is it wrong I feel so pressured? - 4/4/2013 8:07:25 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

So I think she does the men around her a favor by avoiding having a sexual affair with them until such a time as she can clearly formulate and communicate consent.


That would be true of any woman, kinkster or not, of course.

OP: just take your time with relationships. You're 19 - there's no rush. Don't *be* rushed, either.

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com


(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Is it wrong I feel so pressured? - 4/4/2013 8:38:24 AM   
BlkTallFullfig


Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline 		Darling, I'm glad you came and discussed your concerns, and whether you liked all of it or not, we were trying to answer your concerns as best as we can. I usually try to consider there is someone else to the story as well.
Good luck.

Having said that, is this you: started the thread with cravelizzybabe, and forgot, and changed to lilmisssubmiss? Confusing. M

_____________________________

a.k.a. SexyBossyBBW
""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

(in reply to lilmisssubmiss)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Is it wrong I feel so pressured? - 4/4/2013 8:39:42 AM   
lilmisssubmiss


Posts: 284
Joined: 9/29/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BlkTallFullfig

Darling, I'm glad you came and discussed your concerns, and whether you liked all of it or not, we were trying to answer your concerns as best as we can. I usually try to consider there is someone else to the story as well.
Good luck.

Having said that, is this you: started the thread with cravelizzybabe, and forgot, and changed to lilmisssubmiss? Confusing. M

Of course. All of these responses really helped me. Thank you for your time!

(in reply to BlkTallFullfig)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Is it wrong I feel so pressured? - 4/4/2013 8:52:40 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lilmisssubmiss
I've been thinking for quite some time now actually, that it's way more domineering than dominant.

Yeah... and your should probably know that by these definitions I'm way more "domineering" than dominant also. I'm not a good little BDSM dom. I'm a guy who is used to wielding authority. My reactions would probably be more like someone who grew up in a more patriarchal society than they would be a "BDSM dom". So take whatever I say with a grain of salt since I'm a clearly bad match for you.

I never called it rape.
Nope, you didn't. Good job on that. I gotta tell you though that if I was playing with your entire life I would hope better out of myself than muddy statements like "it was along the lines of rape but not total rape". I should think you'd want me to be pretty clear if the price tag was "you get branded as a sex offender for the rest of your life which pretty much means your life is ruined."

Look, the legal landscape here isn't your fault. But I feel like I do you and all your future boyfriends a big favor if I can clue you in on just what that landscape looks like. Unlike all other crimes I know of, in this case the internal mental state of one human is what defines the criminal activity of another. Ouch... just ouch. Man, if I go steal a car I pretty much know I stole a car.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to lilmisssubmiss)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Is it wrong I feel so pressured? - 4/4/2013 9:10:38 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lilmisssubmiss



I actually was trained for two years under a very much older and very well known dominant in LA. I am going to remain annonymous about who it was, but I did learn how to submit, and what it felt like to submit with my body, heart, soul, and mind.


You're 19, I assume his training stopped a matter of months ago so if he trained you for 2 years that means he damn well NEEDS to remain anonymous. If he doesn't, there's a place in jail and on the sex offender registry reserved for him.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to lilmisssubmiss)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Is it wrong I feel so pressured? - 4/4/2013 9:22:15 AM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterAutarch
The latter two are coercion. They may not be nice or right but they are not really rape.
Not really. Coercion can legally be considered rape. Although in this case, I would say that her not removing herself from the situation says that it's not rape.

OP, I have to tell you that what struck me as I read your post: You spent HOURS talking about why you're not ready to have sex. HOURS. Why did it take that much for him to just semi-grasp that concept? Didn't that strike you as odd that it required more than one sentence?

I'll agree that you invested way too much into someone that you didn't know. You wanted it to be a match rather than being realistic about the fact that it wasn't. You said it yourself, that you knew you were coming from two different places and still pursued the relationship.

So, he's a guy that doesn't respect women and you closed your eyes and jumped in anyway. You're both to blame.

I would suggest that you sit down and make a detailed list of what you want in a partner. Then narrow it down to the 10 items that are the most important to you. Then figure out the five that are nonnegotiable. If some guy doesn't hit those five items, move onto the next guy.





_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to MasterAutarch)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Is it wrong I feel so pressured? - 4/4/2013 9:37:45 AM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lilmisssubmiss


quote:

ORIGINAL: cordeliasub

quote:

What we look for in women is sex. The flavor, frequency, tempo, style, position, duration, tone, and pressure can all be negotiated, but the sex must be a given.


This explains so much......

OP, I do think you would benefit from spending some time knowing exactly what you want and exactly what you are ready for....and then making sure that you share that - and only that - with someone that you are becoming close to. What this man did was asshattish (is that a word?), but you did send some mixed signals. Once you know yourself, then stand firm with what you know....don't try to be what you think someone wants you to be - be YOU.



(I'm going to ignore other people's posts, but I do understand why they are jumping to those conclusions.)

I actually was trained for two years under a very much older and very well known dominant in LA. I am going to remain annonymous about who it was, but I did learn how to submit, and what it felt like to submit with my body, heart, soul, and mind.

I know it seems like "wow you have no idea what you want" but you have to understand, the first time I met him was MUCH different. I was impressed he could handle me with strictness (which I found out later turned to force during the second time I met him).

I've spent hours explaining to him about training, protocol, bdsm play, and what I need to submit. I KNOW I need my heart and mind to submit in order for me to become submissive. I just was trying to figure it out with someone around my own age, and most guys get intimidated because they see who've I've been with and what I know. It's not that I expect things to be the same, but if you don't know, I expect you learn to.

I actually know very much what I want. I think he told me a lot of things that he didn't really understand, I mistook some of the cultural things for dominance, yes. A lot of misunderstandings. When feelings formed, it made it even harder to distinguish what had happened.

I'm learning - but I don't think I'm a threat because I'm trying to figure out what I want. There are ways to make me feel comfortable even as a submissive. My ex master didn't even mention sex until I came begging for it. My ex master even asked if a bj was okay (even though he was a forceful man the first time he wanted to know it was okay) and he was gentle, I felt safe. Same with everything we tried at first, he always worked me up. But, then again, this man had years and years of experience.

I think I've screwed myself because a guy around my age........has no idea what he is doing.

*shrug*


So you have two profiles, this one hidden. That certainly adds to your credibility.

Do you believe that saying you were trained since before you were even of the age of consent by some "well known" dominant means anything to people here? It doesn't. Incidentally, if someone DID "train" you, they did a lousy job.

"Impressed with his 'strictness'?" Nothing you have said indicates he was strict. Everything indicates he simply was being a guy who wanted his way. That isn't strict. As for the second time, you keep saying he "forced" you, but nothing you say really implies it was "force" at all. He made a demand, and you, being a 19 year old girl in love with an image of dominance obeyed.

That is not "partial rape," which there really is no such thing. The concept that coercing a girl to perform a sexual act is akin to rape is simply not true.

HE told YOU a lot of things HE didn't understand? Get a grip, kiddo. YOU heard what you wanted to hear.

You can't even keep track of which profile you are posting under. You can't communicate well here, so I doubt you communicated well to him. You are infatuated with the idea of falling in love with someone through electronic means and then transferring it to real life, without even paying attention to what is going on in real life.

So, please, do the poor men a favor and stay uninvolved until you get your act together.

(in reply to lilmisssubmiss)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Is it wrong I feel so pressured? - 4/4/2013 9:44:01 AM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterAutarch
The latter two are coercion. They may not be nice or right but they are not really rape.
Not really. Coercion can legally be considered rape. Although in this case, I would say that her not removing herself from the situation says that it's not rape.

OP, I have to tell you that what struck me as I read your post: You spent HOURS talking about why you're not ready to have sex. HOURS. Why did it take that much for him to just semi-grasp that concept? Didn't that strike you as odd that it required more than one sentence?

I'll agree that you invested way too much into someone that you didn't know. You wanted it to be a match rather than being realistic about the fact that it wasn't. You said it yourself, that you knew you were coming from two different places and still pursued the relationship.

So, he's a guy that doesn't respect women and you closed your eyes and jumped in anyway. You're both to blame.

I would suggest that you sit down and make a detailed list of what you want in a partner. Then narrow it down to the 10 items that are the most important to you. Then figure out the five that are nonnegotiable. If some guy doesn't hit those five items, move onto the next guy.




Very good advice.

While "coercion" can legally be considered rape, in *some* circumstances, I think it is important that people stop jumping on the sexual assault/rape bandwagon every time some female comes on with a story of some sexual activity she didn't want. This guy was a jerk for sure, but I've no doubt he did not rape or sexually assault her.

When people jump on that bandwagon, they do the female no favors, because they already lack understanding, and giving them the ability to not take responsibility for their own part in the sexual activity just plays into their "victim" mentality, and could potentially ruin a guy's life. Being a jerk is not a crime.

As you said, Oside, her not removing herself from the situation and simply doing what he said (I think her use of the word "force" was more fantasy than reality) doesn't create sexual assault.

About the only smart thing the OP has said so far is that she doesn't feel she was raped.

(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Is it wrong I feel so pressured? - 4/4/2013 9:52:12 AM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		Just a few things
1. You have met twice and both meetings did not work out.
2. Online for 7 months.. err.. why? If you were thinking that his natural (cultural) dominance was what you sought wouldn't that be evident the first time?
3. You promised sex.. err.. why?
4. You mention training as if there is a script somewhere. "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

Get your head out of the bodice rippers. Cut your online time and find real local people. And as a personal aside, until you know YOU, stay away from dating other cultures.


_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley


(in reply to cravelizzybabe)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Is it wrong I feel so pressured? - 4/4/2013 10:04:55 AM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:






after I said no sex he forced me to the ground to give him a bj


quote:




Also, after he didn't let me give him a bj


I'm confused. Cravelizzy and littlemiss are the same person, right? Or is that why I'm confused, they are two different people telling similar stories?

Help a gal out here, please, someone?



_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to lilmisssubmiss)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Is it wrong I feel so pressured? - 4/4/2013 10:10:41 AM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		The way I read it was that he forced the first one. She stayed and later tried to get back in good graces by offering a willing BJ to which he denied.

_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley


(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Is it wrong I feel so pressured? - 4/4/2013 10:26:14 AM   
SeekingTrinity


Posts: 1834
Joined: 5/29/2012
From: The 'burbs of Portland, OR
Status: offline 		~FRing it~

Uh oh, looks like someone might be having difficulty keeping stories...and identities...straight. Talk about things that make you go hmm.



< Message edited by SeekingTrinity -- 4/4/2013 10:32:51 AM >

(in reply to Missokyst)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Is it wrong I feel so pressured? - 4/4/2013 11:21:33 AM   
Glittoris


Posts: 48
Joined: 2/24/2013
Status: offline 		I was the first to say rape, but when the OP used the following phrases:

"So , I saw him again last weekend. We both slept because I got in super early, and then after a few hours of sleeping he got kind of aggressive and started taking off my cloths and i just said " no.. I'm not ready" like I started to freak out. He kept trying to get at it and I kept saying no, I really thought he was going to do it... eventually he stopped and I told him I just wasn't ready. So I could tell he was frusterated and he put me to my knees and made me give him a bj.. which I wasn't ready for that either.
"

What the hell are we supposed to think? Those who have been sexually assaulted are tired of hearing excuses as to why it wasn't actually rape, so if you [OP] don't feel it was actually forced, don't use that kind of phrasing. Seriously.

_____________________________

Life is short, enjoy the time you have with someone who loves you...
10 Golden Rules for BDSM Negotiation

(in reply to SeekingTrinity)
Profile   Post #: 60
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