RE: Financial Domination? (Full Version)

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egern -> RE: Financial Domination? (4/14/2013 1:09:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

quote:

ORIGINAL: submandibular
There is nothing wrong with upfront advertsising, I was just making a point about how pervasive money is on this site.




Its as pervasive as it is because this is a sexually oriented dating site.


On the lists I have been on, the debate forums etc have been the primary thing, and the contact adds a secondary. On some there have been no contact section. Maybe that is why there has been few or no pros.

The latest 10-15 years have been increasingly commercial and Me First, there have been quite a lot of discussion of this lately. The world is colder than it has been in many ways, but it is changing.

As part of that process, I feel like saying that sex and money is not and never has been an inevitable combination.



egern -> RE: Financial Domination? (4/14/2013 1:25:14 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

quote:

ORIGINAL: submandibular
I don't see how talking about it and bringing it back to light is damaging or trying to remove it from the world. I was interested in having a discussion about FinDommes and what people thought.

That's a complete misrepresentation of your OP. You took positions that were ignorant, catty, and holier-than-thou. If you had instead said, "Why is there a rise in the number of findom profiles on this site?" or "How many men are really into this fetish?" or any other tone-neutral question, you'd have received very different replies on this thread.

You came out swinging with your first post, and even ended the "your kink is not okay" rant with a passive aggressive smiley face. You're not in a position to complain about anyone else's condescending tone.


I disagree, I thought it was totally polite and inquiring. But there tends to be a punishment on even asking the question - but this has been large absent this time. Good! :-)




UllrsIshtar -> RE: Financial Domination? (4/14/2013 1:26:57 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: egern


As for money and sex, not everybody lives in a society where everything is about money, including sex and bdsm. There are such things as love, friendship and true bonding, thank the gods.


Any society that uses money trades sex for money.

Trading money for it may not be the most common method of securing sex, but it's been one of the methods for as long as money has been around.

Before money was around, people bartered for sex.



crazyml -> RE: Financial Domination? (4/14/2013 1:31:54 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: egern

On the lists I have been on, the debate forums etc have been the primary thing, and the contact adds a secondary. On some there have been no contact section. Maybe that is why there has been few or no pros.


Certainly, you're far less likely to get the same number of pros on a discussion only site.

quote:


The latest 10-15 years have been increasingly commercial and Me First, there have been quite a lot of discussion of this lately. The world is colder than it has been in many ways, but it is changing.



Have you noticed, that even nostalgia was better in the old days?

quote:



As part of that process, I feel like saying that sex and money is not and never has been an inevitable combination.


Please don't actually say it though, because it would be a silly thing to say.

The reason prostitution is often called "the oldest profession" is that sex and money have been combined ever since we emerged from the green swamp and the ladies grew lady parts and the boys grew boy parts.

So Of-fucking-Course sex and money are an inevitable combination, they are today, they have been for all of human history and they will be for ever.

sheesh!




egern -> RE: Financial Domination? (4/14/2013 1:32:13 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009


quote:

ORIGINAL: submandibular

Do you think maybe it is possible for me to jump on this Grenade I seem to have unknowingly unleashed onto the board? Seems my first post will not be my finest. Certainly got the blood going though...........Maybe this could be an example of how not to do it. I nice juxtaposition to your delightful thread!


Nah, don't be so hard on yourself. This wasn't bad at all. It's just that the topic seems to bring out more negative emotions than any other subject that we discuss on the boards. But I don't think that you did so badly.

Frankly, I'd be embarrassed to admit how long it took me to discover the search function on this site. And even now, I seldom use it. If I want to discuss something, then I want to discuss it. I don't want to read what other people said about it 5 years ago. I want to PARTICIPATE in the discussion. I know that some here disagree with that sentiment, but that's just how I see it.





I have to agree with you on that last statement. You can learn from going back on precious discussions, but it is also important to participate and get answers to your own questions.

That is also freedom of speech, and if people are tired of a topic coming up for the umpteenth time, do not read it. Simple.




UllrsIshtar -> RE: Financial Domination? (4/14/2013 1:35:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: egern

That is also freedom of speech, and if people are tired of a topic coming up for the umpteenth time, do not read it. Simple.





It's got nothing to do with freedom of speech. The proprietors of this site are not constitutionally bound to guarantee freedom of speech.

They can prohibit anybody they want, from saying anything they want.

If they would want to make the word "the" off-limits on this site, they could happily do that. If they would want to prohibit fin-Domme topics, they could happily do that.



egern -> RE: Financial Domination? (4/14/2013 1:39:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BlkTallFullfig
To be fair, it's your job as newbies, to seek out, and read FAQs, not so much as to not repeat questions, but more to give you a perspective to begin from.


It if not the job of a newbie to do anything, but a good tip nevertheless if you know enough about lists to know that you can do this, and how.


quote:


I don't believe anyone was that harsh on this particular thread, but we were short on patience, while explaining that this is just one of those kinks, that people tend to hold moral superiority over, because of the false premise that relationships, money, and sex shall never meet. This therefore sparks a lot of arguments regarding it's ethics, morals, and acceptability.


if you are annoyed or short of patience due to having said it all many times, do not post. Simple.



egern -> RE: Financial Domination? (4/14/2013 1:43:15 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BlkTallFullfig

You will be happy to learn, that the conversation turned out rather civil,


Civil only in in comparison to what went before LOL!

But that was then and this is now, and this one is certainly better.



egern -> RE: Financial Domination? (4/14/2013 1:49:42 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar


quote:

ORIGINAL: egern


As for money and sex, not everybody lives in a society where everything is about money, including sex and bdsm. There are such things as love, friendship and true bonding, thank the gods.


Any society that uses money trades sex for money.

Trading money for it may not be the most common method of securing sex, but it's been one of the methods for as long as money has been around.

Before money was around, people bartered for sex.


I do not agree, what that is a different topic.



egern -> RE: Financial Domination? (4/14/2013 1:52:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml


quote:

ORIGINAL: egern

On the lists I have been on, the debate forums etc have been the primary thing, and the contact adds a secondary. On some there have been no contact section. Maybe that is why there has been few or no pros.


Certainly, you're far less likely to get the same number of pros on a discussion only site.

quote:


The latest 10-15 years have been increasingly commercial and Me First, there have been quite a lot of discussion of this lately. The world is colder than it has been in many ways, but it is changing.



Have you noticed, that even nostalgia was better in the old days?

quote:



As part of that process, I feel like saying that sex and money is not and never has been an inevitable combination.


Please don't actually say it though, because it would be a silly thing to say.

The reason prostitution is often called "the oldest profession" is that sex and money have been combined ever since we emerged from the green swamp and the ladies grew lady parts and the boys grew boy parts.

So Of-fucking-Course sex and money are an inevitable combination, they are today, they have been for all of human history and they will be for ever.

sheesh!




Forgive me if I do not bow to your wisdom sheesh, but not all societies are alike, and not all times either.



leonine -> RE: Financial Domination? (4/14/2013 2:08:37 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar


quote:

ORIGINAL: egern


As for money and sex, not everybody lives in a society where everything is about money, including sex and bdsm. There are such things as love, friendship and true bonding, thank the gods.


Any society that uses money trades sex for money.
As egern says, that's another topic, but since we're here...

There's a term "the Flintstone theory" which we use for those who discuss history on the assumption that everyone has always thought and acted like suburban Americans. We need a cultural equivalent - the Cosby theory? - for those who assume that all cultures all over the world think and act like Americans.

There are plenty of cultures that don't trade sex for money, and not only the ones that are so repressed they wouldn't dare. There are also still a few - and were a great many more before the missionaries got to them - that don't trade, for money or barter, because they don't think of sex as a commodity. It would be like paying for hugs.
quote:



Before money was around, people bartered for sex.
I'm sure you have a wealth of evidence to back up that assertion, and as a keen amateur historian I look forward to seeing it.




thezeppo -> RE: Financial Domination? (4/14/2013 2:17:22 AM)

Would you give me some examples of cultures that don't, contemporary or historical?



submandibular -> RE: Financial Domination? (4/14/2013 2:34:40 AM)

I'm just postulating, but perhaps cultures that had no perception of money or property, San people of South Africa, Aborigines in Australia, Native Amazonian tribal people's (not Maya or Inca), the Urewe of East Africa ......


Edit: Typo



UllrsIshtar -> RE: Financial Domination? (4/14/2013 2:45:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: leonine


quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar


Before money was around, people bartered for sex.
I'm sure you have a wealth of evidence to back up that assertion, and as a keen amateur historian I look forward to seeing it.




I'm not an American, why would you assume that I would assume every culture to react like a culture that isn't even my own?

Records of sex being traded for money date back from 18th century BC. Sacred and temple prostitution dates has record going back to 4000BC.
It's a well know fact that several species of monkeys, as well as certain other animals barter for sex.

Anytime a woman has ever said: "I want you to do X first, and then we'll have sex" they've bartered for sex. Even in cultures where such barter wasn't common, or the norm, it would have happened. Human interaction and logic dictates as much.

But seeing that it's impossible to proof a negative, and you're the one with the positive asserting in this debate, I'll gladly leave the forum to you to see the evidence that I'm wrong. If I am, I will gladly change my statement to: "most cultures".

Either way, the nuance of the point is quite irrelevant to this thread, considering that, at the very least, there haven't been cultures which use money in the last couple thousands years that didn't trade money for sex.





thezeppo -> RE: Financial Domination? (4/14/2013 2:52:24 AM)

Cool, thanks. Its something I will read about some more. I'm very impressed by your sheer width of knowledge submandibular! I have depth of knowledge in specific areas, but some things I just have no clue at all about. This being one of them.



submandibular -> RE: Financial Domination? (4/14/2013 2:57:48 AM)

Hehe many thanks my man, after our conversations on the other side and what I've read on the various threads so far, you seem to have a much wider knowledge than you give yourself credit for, that plus profound depth .... Bloody genius!


Edit: My knowledge base is not wide enough, evidenced by the existence of this thread.



jj292 -> RE: Financial Domination? (4/14/2013 3:52:42 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar


quote:

ORIGINAL: egern


As for money and sex, not everybody lives in a society where everything is about money, including sex and bdsm. There are such things as love, friendship and true bonding, thank the gods.


Any society that uses money trades sex for money.

Trading money for it may not be the most common method of securing sex, but it's been one of the methods for as long as money has been around.

Before money was around, people bartered for sex.



OK but that's not really whats being discussed with financial domination.

With a findomme, you give the woman money with no sex in return (and usually nothing else either).

I dont really consider it part of BDSM to be honest with you. I dont see spoiling women as a fetish.



vincentML -> RE: Financial Domination? (4/14/2013 4:34:52 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jj292


quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar


quote:

ORIGINAL: egern


As for money and sex, not everybody lives in a society where everything is about money, including sex and bdsm. There are such things as love, friendship and true bonding, thank the gods.


Any society that uses money trades sex for money.

Trading money for it may not be the most common method of securing sex, but it's been one of the methods for as long as money has been around.

Before money was around, people bartered for sex.



OK but that's not really whats being discussed with financial domination.

With a findomme, you give the woman money with no sex in return (and usually nothing else either).

I dont really consider it part of BDSM to be honest with you. I dont see spoiling women as a fetish.

Is it not a fetish if the giver is sexually aroused by his submissive role?



JeffBC -> RE: Financial Domination? (4/14/2013 7:51:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jj292
With a findomme, you give the woman money with no sex in return (and usually nothing else either).

OK, I'm restricting this answer to the non-relationship side of findommery which is what you're talking about. The kind that's more like a phone sex operator. That seems to be where your commented is targeted as opposed to people in some form of active relationship where money is a part of the equation.

So I guess my question is, who pays money for nothing? With no repeat customers, how does one make a business of this? If we're going to look at the hardcore mercenary findommes who the heck does one make any money selling nothing? You might ponder bottled water as a reference point.



CeriseNin -> RE: Financial Domination? (4/14/2013 8:02:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jj292


quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar


quote:

ORIGINAL: egern


As for money and sex, not everybody lives in a society where everything is about money, including sex and bdsm. There are such things as love, friendship and true bonding, thank the gods.


Any society that uses money trades sex for money.

Trading money for it may not be the most common method of securing sex, but it's been one of the methods for as long as money has been around.

Before money was around, people bartered for sex.



OK but that's not really whats being discussed with financial domination.

With a findomme, you give the woman money with no sex in return (and usually nothing else either).

I dont really consider it part of BDSM to be honest with you. I dont see spoiling women as a fetish.

If people are giving money to findommes, then they are obviously getting something out of it, even if that something isn't apparent to you. Maybe it turns them on to give their money to women or whatever. I don't see the big deal about findommes. To each their own.



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