quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

We've all stood in riot girls shoes at one time or another.  Shes been fooled...duped...whatever word you chose to use. 

I guess Im *below* it.  Because if someone ( spouse/significant other/father of my child) spends years lying to me, Im damn well going to find out what they lied to me about and what scheme they have in mind using *my* personal things....ie....photos emails or whatever else they put on the web, so I can protect myself and my child. 

Ive never been tracked down or beaten.  Im not sure if thats luck, caution, or playing detective. But I'll do whatever it takes (short of something illegal) to protect myself and child.  Again, in an ideal world we wouldnt have to resort to such a thing, but if you feel you're being victimized, well, then sometimes those lines have to be crossed. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kree

ok...it takes more than one clear moment of self respect to leave.  God forgive me for misquoting you.  My point is still the same. 

How beautiful it must be to live in a shiney little perfect world of absolutes.  I suppose you've never questioned anything, anyone, or wondered in which direction to turn.  And I bet you're the first human being who has never had inner conflict, hesitation, or doubt. 

You seem to have found the holy grail.  You have every cut and dried answer to every word ever spoken.  Makes me wonder why you sound so angry all the time.

************************************************************************************ No one needs forgiveness for a misquote, it just changes the way someone said something, thus changing the meaning.  If changing the meaning of a comment helps you with your little diatribe and attack, go for it.

I do not live in a world of absolutes, nor a perfect world, but I do live in a world I choose to live in and it is a delightful world because two people make it that way.  I have questioned many things in my life, but after questioning and making decisions, I have accepted my CHOICES and moved along the path of life.  If I have made a bad decision, I recognize it was MY bad decision and have no need to alert the media that someone fucked me over. 

I might very well be the only person on earth, besides my partner, without inner conflicts etc., because I face situations and resolve them on my own.... ooops there is that self respect (and personal responsibility) bullshit again.  Of course there are indeed people on this earth who DO face situations and DO resolve them.  

Actually, I have ideas about the holy grail.  Ever read "Holy Blood, Holy Grail"? 

You do not know me, but if you did, you would realize that anger has no place in my world.  Anger is a worthless emotional response that saps energy and prevents the resolution of issues.  

Read the posts I have made, and you will find logic... not anger.  If I choose to post something that I feel might make someone think, it isn't about anger, it is about trying to help.  I do grow weary of seeing people respond to problems with empathy and "It will be okay", instead of asking people to actually look at, and face their problems.   

I do not know why you chose to flame me for posting a comment asking someone to look at reality instead of the shadow world of "It will be all right", but understand, I don't play the silly games that I've seen on other threads where people do 100's of one line flames at each other.  It's such a waste of bandwidth, and it gives undeserved credibility to the flamers. 

See my thread called "Hand to Hand Combat".  Or better yet, I'll just quote from it.  "Never argue with a pig.  You'll both get dirty and the pig just loves it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

No two wrongs do not make a right for all you moral nazis ripping apart my post and putting words in my mouth.

bottom line...If I am not safe, my child is not safe.  If I get hurt, my child has no caregiver. 

I do not believe that some moral code of ethics about checking your non-trustworthy husbands email is more important than a child's safety.  And yes...the mothers wellfare IS one in the same as the childs welfare. 

In THIS particular case, given THESE particular circumstances, I would have done the same thing riot girl did.  I stand behind that, no matter how many of you people who have lived the lives of saints lie your asses off about  never having crossed an ethical line in your lives. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: Noah

quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

No two wrongs do not make a right for all you moral nazis ripping apart my post and putting words in my mouth.

bottom line...If I am not safe, my child is not safe.  If I get hurt, my child has no caregiver. 

I do not believe that some moral code of ethics about checking your non-trustworthy husbands email is more important than a child's safety.  And yes...the mothers wellfare IS one in the same as the childs welfare. 

In THIS particular case, given THESE particular circumstances, I would have done the same thing riot girl did.  I stand behind that, no matter how many of you people who have lived the lives of saints lie your asses off about  never having crossed an ethical line in your lives. 

Marie.

I'm sorry your child's father is absent from your child's life--whether through death or desertion, illness or incarceration. I'm sorry that there is no one else from among your family or friends who would step in to give care to your child if you became hurt. I expect that your child's extremely precarious situation has contributed to your sensitivity in regard to this thread. I'm sure that a large portion of each of your days is spent in addressing that supremely stressful situation and I wish you all luck with it.

That said, I didn't see anyone here claim never to have crossed ethical lines. Everyone I know who gives a crap about right and wrong has gained knowledge from both sides of the line. Speaking up in favor of recognizing that there is such a thing as doing wrong does not entail any claim of moral superiority, much less perfection.

quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo
Noah:

You have made alot of presumptions about me, my life, my child and my ex.  I have no desire to disqualify your innacurate assumptions.  Im sorry that you would even equate "friends" as a sufficient replacement for a child's mother.  But thats beside the point anyway.

Suffice it to say that my post was written in the context of  riotgirls situation.  Maybe you didnt read the original thread.  What I find particularly sad is that despite how hurt she is and how desparately she was crying out for help,  someone actually made a thread designed to condemn her choices during this extremely emotional time in her life. 

A very sad commentary on this group. 

My posts here were made in an effort to make a point.  Apparently it fell on deaf ears, and blind eyes, as everyone is so busy pontificating their sainthood, instead of giving a rats ass about a person who is in need of support.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Noah

quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo
Noah:

You have made alot of presumptions about me, my life, my child and my ex.  I have no desire to disqualify your innacurate assumptions.  Im sorry that you would even equate "friends" as a sufficient replacement for a child's mother.  But thats beside the point anyway.

Suffice it to say that my post was written in the context of  riotgirls situation.  Maybe you didnt read the original thread.  What I find particularly sad is that despite how hurt she is and how desparately she was crying out for help,  someone actually made a thread designed to condemn her choices during this extremely emotional time in her life. 

A very sad commentary on this group. 

My posts here were made in an effort to make a point.  Apparently it fell on deaf ears, and blind eyes, as everyone is so busy pontificating their sainthood, instead of giving a rats ass about a person who is in need of support.

Marie, I made no assumptions whatever. I took you at your word when you said in clear, unambiguous language:


My last post was made in an effort to point out that taking a position in favor of something other than ethical relativism does not entail any sort of personal claim to goodness, or sainthood pontification as you put it. A point which you, in your agitation utterly overlooked.

The fact that someone is crying out for help doesn't equate for me to a perfect right to have all of her choices validated, irrespective of their rightness or wrongness, wiseness or self-destructiveness. It is of course possible to condemn a given choice a person makes without attacking that person.

Your comments here are generally so well thought out and empathetic. Your emotion seems to be getting in the way of your seeing what people are actually saying today.

By the way, I know of a case where with the loss of both parents, friends did indeed take in and raise a child to be a healthy, happy wonderful person. I think she and her adoptive parents might find your comment about parental sufficiency callous, or worse. My point here is that all of this flailing from you is contrary to the impression you have consistently given in your posting here, to my eyes.

I hope tomorrow finds you in better spirits.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

Actually...it IS against the law to go through a person's mail or any of their private belongings without their express permission and if said person chose to bring charges against you, they could.  In the case of mail delivered through the postal system, it is considered a violation of federal law, whether or not the letter has been previously opened.

Note that this is not an attempt to justify the abuser of riotgirl.  I'm sure that there are things he has done that are illegal and that could be her recourse. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: mew

I didn't want to highjack riotgirl's thread, so I am posting here in a new one. 
 
It seems to me there is a lot of double talk going on here, regarding going through your Master's email. 
 
I have to ask how a Master breaks your trust?   If he does it in front of you, is he not being honest?    If he does it behind your back, how would you know?  
 
Everyone told me it was "just wrong to go through your Master's email", yet everyone is telling her, "bravo".   
 
Either I am just plain stupid, or I am having a major brain fart this morning, because I really don't get it.    If you sense something isn't right in the relationship, don't you owe it to yourself to find out the truth if your not getting it from Master?   
 
I think many here are giving mixed advice.
 
~mew~