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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

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ORIGINAL: DomKen
That monument to intolerance

The Ten Commandments is a monument to intolerance?!? Where the fuck do you get this shit?

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ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

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ORIGINAL: DomKen
That monument to intolerance

The Ten Commandments is a monument to intolerance?!? Where the fuck do you get this shit?

Are you seriously asking this question? Have you read the Ten Commandments? Why don't you read the first and second commandments and get back to us with an explanation of how those two commandments embrace and support other religions and forms of worship?

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
I am afraid he is right, DesideriScuri, the ten commandments are intolerant of the other gods in modern America, like money, trophy wives, power and corruption.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

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ORIGINAL: Zonie63

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ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

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ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess
A teacher displaying a plaque in a PUBLIC school is absolutely violating the Constitution.
Constitutional cases are decided on facts, not in a vacuum.
What situation are you referring to regarding an elected official (a teacher is not an elected official)? If an elected official chooses to put up a plaque in their private home, no one cares and they are within their rights to do so. Who has stopped an elected official from putting up a religious plaque in their private property?? Again, what are you referring to??

Does it matter what situation I'm referring to?

And, Constitutional cases certainly can be decided in a vacuum. Either it's Constitutional, or it's not.

No. Constitutional cases are never decided in a vacuum. If you think that you understand NOTHING about the law.

Yes, it really matters what situation you are referring to.

I guess I don't understand the law either, since that's the impression I always got, too. Lawyers and the judiciary seem to operate in their own little world, somewhat out of touch with the needs of society or public opinion in general. That's part of the reason why there are so many problems in society today. It's really the lawyers' fault for most of society's problems, since they hold all the power and could use it to do good, but they don't. I truly don't mean any offense, because I know you're a lawyer, but let's face it: The reputation of your profession is well-deserved.

I'm not sure what your rant is about in all honesty. I am just saying that cases are decided based on the facts presented - that is all. Not talking rocket science here, and also not talking about the legal profession, or anything else that you raise. Let me ask you a basic question. How is a court supposed to find someone either guilty of a crime, or liable for a civil wrong if they do not have any FACTS in front of them. If I take you to court and say you killed someone, with no other evidence, no other facts presented, do you really think they will just put in jail and throw away the key? Because that seems to be what you are saying. All I am saying is that the facts as presented do matter in terms of how a court decides a case. They can't decide in a vacuum without any facts, evidence or law. If they could, I literally could accuse you of murder and just have you found guilty. No facts presented, in a vacuum. Is that really how you think things work? Wow.

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
The Ten Commandments is a monument to intolerance?!?

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ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
The Ten Commandments is a monument to intolerance?!?

thou shalt not covet thy neighbors ass can be a problem for some folks.

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The Ten Commandments is a monument to intolerance?!? Where the fuck do you get this shit?

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

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ORIGINAL: DomKen
That monument to intolerance

The Ten Commandments is a monument to intolerance?!? Where the fuck do you get this shit?

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
So, only first 2 really have anything to do with any sort of intolerance. That's hardly a "monument to intolerance."

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ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
The Ten Commandments is a monument to intolerance?!?

thou shalt not covet thy neighbors ass can be a problem for some folks.

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

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The Ten Commandments is a monument to intolerance?!? Where the fuck do you get this shit?

I'm guessing DK was talking specifically about the stone monument in Alabama. There's some interesting info about it in the opinion for Glassroth v. Moore, in which a federal judge ruled, "Moore's placement of his Ten Commandments monument in the Alabama State Judicial Building violated the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, as incorporated into the Fourteenth Amendment and enforced by 42 U.S.C.A. § 1983. Defendant Moore is given thirty days from the date of this judgment to remove the monument":
Shortly after his election, now-Chief Justice
began designing a monument depicting, in his words, "the moral
foundation of law" and reflecting "the sovereignty of God over
the affairs of men." By God, the Chief Justice specifically
meant the Judeo-Christian God of the Holy Bible and not the God
of any other religion.
Identifying a single religious tradition as the sole "moral foundation of law" strikes me as neither tolerant nor constitutional.
As for the Ten Commandments themselves, they do mandate allegiance solely to Yahweh ("You shall have no other gods before me."), who identifies himself as "a jealous God,visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments." One can see how that might spark some intolerance.

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
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• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

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ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
The Ten Commandments is a monument to intolerance?!?

thou shalt not covet thy neighbors ass can be a problem for some folks.

That's not intolerance, though. That's just damn difficult.

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ORIGINAL: GotSteel

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
So, only first 2 really have anything to do with any sort of intolerance. That's hardly a "monument to intolerance."

Depending on how one sticks commandments together (because the list doesn't actually add up to ten) it's possible for the first four to be blatantly intolerant.
But either way how many intolerant statements should it take before it counts? Would you be cool with this list posted in front of a court house? I mean only first 2 really have anything to do with any sort of intolerance...
1. Faith is another word for gullibility
2. Christianity is a scam
3. Remember to keep holy the Lord's Day
4. Honor your father and your mother
5. You shall not kill
6. You shall not commit adultery
7. You shall not steal
8. You shall not bear false witness
9. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife
10. You shall not covet your neighbor's goods

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Where do you get your list that adds up to more than 10?

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
All you're doing with your given list is attempting to piss off anyone who follows a religion, but especially Christians.

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Other than atheists, which religion would disagree with the 10 commandments, if they were to think of their own head "god" as the one giving the commandments? That could include 84% of the world's population.

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ORIGINAL: http://www.sltrib.com/utah/ci_2909395
Followers of the Summum faith say Moses made two trips down from the mountain. On one journey, the prophet returned with the Ten Commandments, "lower laws" that were easily understood and widely distributed.

The higher law obtained from the other trip, though, was passed down only to a select few who were able to appreciate it, according to the Salt Lake City-based religion.

But now, Summum is fighting a legal battle to share that higher law - the Seven Aphorisms, or principles that underlie creation and nature - with everyone in a public forum.

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ORIGINAL: GotSteel

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Where do you get your list that adds up to more than 10?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Commandments#Enumeration_of_the_Ten_Commandments
Look at how the various religious groups have numbered the "ten commandments" (that colored section on the left of the chart) to see the elimination/combining that goes on to get to ten.

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
All you're doing with your given list is attempting to piss off anyone who follows a religion, but especially Christians.

I'm trying to get you to see through Christian privilege to see the bigotry of ten commandment monuments. Sure it's normal for your religion to claim that your god is the one twue god. But it's not normal for court houses to claim that your god is the one twue god. Those are supposed to belong to us as well and when you erect monuments explicitly stating that they don't...well it might as well be a statue of the middle finger.
Think about how it would be if a courthouse displayed a monument promoting a Skeptical position and hopefully you'll get what the fuss is about.

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Other than atheists, which religion would disagree with the 10 commandments, if they were to think of their own head "god" as the one giving the commandments? That could include 84% of the world's population.

But it doesn't. Would you be happy being told just squint, maybe get somebody to give you a mild concussion and it will sort of seem like your religion fits in?

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These monuments don't even represent all the followers of one of the Abrahamic religions. Here's a lawsuit by followers of an Abrahamic religion:

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ORIGINAL: http://www.sltrib.com/utah/ci_2909395
Followers of the Summum faith say Moses made two trips down from the mountain. On one journey, the prophet returned with the Ten Commandments, "lower laws" that were easily understood and widely distributed.
The higher law obtained from the other trip, though, was passed down only to a select few who were able to appreciate it, according to the Salt Lake City-based religion.
But now, Summum is fighting a legal battle to share that higher law - the Seven Aphorisms, or principles that underlie creation and nature - with everyone in a public forum.

Where does it show that the 10 Commandments aren't representing those of the Summum faith? Sure looks like they think there should be more than the 10.


_____________________________

What I support:

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

(in reply to GotSteel)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
Yeah, the only concern I have for the ten commandments is what kind of stone Charleton Heston carved them on, because we are talking stone hammers and bone chisels, aint we? 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

As I listed out, the first 2 are really the only "intolerant" ones, but that's solely due to pretty much every monotheistic religion, isn't it? Even the 2nd is commanding to not have any "thing" be more important in our life than God. Even allowing for #2 to be intolerant, 20% of the "rules" make it a "monument to intolerance?" If more people lived according to the 10 commandments - allowing for their own personal choice in who or what is defined as God in the first commandment - I'm willing to bet we'd be a much more civilized and peaceful society.