RE: What actions , if any, should I take?

RE: What actions , if any, should I take? (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion

Message

RedMagic1 -> RE: What actions , if any, should I take? (5/8/2013 10:45:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: evesgrden quote: I must say, rape occurs on a variety of levels, some of which are acknowledged by the legal system, and some of which are not, yet. What do you believe is rape, but is not acknowledged as such by the legal system? For me, the most famous such example is the crime Julian Assange is charge with. It's "minor rape," literal translation, not at all the same crime as rape in the US. However, for a crime to be worthy of extradition, it has to be serious, so it's politically expedient for "one side" to say that he's wanted for rape, hence that gets a lot of air play. Part of the legal issue is that the crime in question isn't necessarily a crime in either the US, the UK, or Australia. So different countries have different notions of sexual assault, even if they are all in the West, so to speak. Here's another example. Is consent only given if there is an explicit verbal yes? Right now, US law does not require that, just that the sex be consensual "somehow." Some activists want to tighten the law, while other people point out that would make a lot of drunk hookups technically rape. As an aside, I've really enjoyed your posts in this thread (the ones I've read anyway). You sounded grounded in harsh experience, now arrived in a very good place. It's the only part of this thread that's made me smile. Kudos.

JustDragonflies -> RE: What actions , if any, should I take? (5/8/2013 11:03:58 AM)
Dark Steven and Lady Pact, The imaginary journey I invited you on was to give you the potential perspective of those women's experiences. I was not saying they were literally my own. But thank you for your sympathy never the less. :) DarkSteven, the point I was trying to make was that you were contemplating why someone should potentially speak up or take action for the alleged victims and I wanted to paint everyone a picture of what women and men feel when they go through such traumatic events. Also, my post was super long, but at the beginning I pointed out that I did not think, legally you could report anything. But I believe it's important to open a dialog about why one ought to. LadyPact, Of course I realize that not 100% of rape allegations are actually crimes that have been committed. However that is not for me to decide. And it's not wholly for the legal system to decide either. Plenty of women have to deal with the consequences of having been raped in a way that doesn't fit in with our current legal system in many states. My only purpose here was to advocate for the victims and offer up some reasons to all the people who judged victims who didn't report their crimes or questioned whether that invalidated other's ability to be safe. I'm a private citizen. I advocate for victims. I believe individuals until I have a clear cut reason not do. I do not hold myself up to the standards of law enforcement when attempting to offer victim support type services or conversations. Never in the topic do I bring up whether this particular man is guilty or innocent. I can't know that. Instead I focused on presenting those who questioned whether action should be taken (or outright said none should). I know everyone doesn't view things like that or operate like that, but I can certainly keep inviting people to do so. Here's something else to mull over. Most rape allegations are not fake. False rape allegations are very rare, in fact. Yet everyone is kind of taking an attitude of like "there's a 50-50 chance this is all a lie". No there's not. There's a very small possibility it's a lie. And because a few men/women exploit the legal system and DO lie, is no good, logical reason to go around thinking they all might be liars. http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/03/13/false-rape-allegations-ra_n_2865823.html

JustDragonflies -> RE: What actions , if any, should I take? (5/8/2013 11:13:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: evesgrden quote: I must say, rape occurs on a variety of levels, some of which are acknowledged by the legal system, and some of which are not, yet. What do you believe is rape, but is not acknowledged as such by the legal system? I can't deny that I sort of bristled at this "what do you believe is rape" which I, probably irrationally, felt was sort of an invalidating way to phrase it, as though this is something I, independently made up and just "decided" to believe, or that this is my original concept. Probably you didn't mean it that way! So what sorts of rape occur that isn't acknowledged as such by the legal system? Rape in which the victim doesn't necessarily verbalize the word "No." or other such refusals. They think it or feel it, they imply it, but don't outright say it. If they've been pressured, have other psychological issues etc etc but no threat of harm was present, most legal systems wouldn't identify that as rape. But it felt, looked, was rape to the woman/man. There are lots of other weird grey areas but this is one of the most common situations where rape occurs and isn't legally acknowledged in SOME places. This might help answer some of your rape related questions, particularly about what rape/sexual assault/sexual abuse is. http://www.rainn.org/get-information/types-of-sexual-assault/was-it-rape

LadyPact -> RE: What actions , if any, should I take? (5/8/2013 11:35:30 AM)
quote: LadyPact, Of course I realize that not 100% of rape allegations are actually crimes that have been committed. However that is not for me to decide. And it's wholly for the legal system to decide either. Plenty of women have to deal with the consequences of having been raped in a way that doesn't fit in with our current legal system in many states. My only purpose here was to advocate for the victims and offer up some reasons to all the people who judged victims who didn't report their crimes or questioned whether that invalidated other's ability to be safe. I'm a private citizen. I advocate for victims. I believe individuals until I have a clear cut reason not do. I do not hold myself up to the standards of law enforcement when attempting to offer victim support type services or conversations. Never in the topic do I bring up whether this particular man is guilty or innocent. I can't know that. Instead I focused on presenting those who questioned whether action should be taken (or outright said none should). I know everyone doesn't view things like that or operate like that, but I can certainly keep inviting people to do so. Here's something else to mull over. Most rape allegations are not fake. False rape allegations are very rare, in fact. Yet everyone is kind of taking an attitude of like "there's a 50-50 chance this is all a lie". No there's not. There's a very small possibility it's a lie. And because a few men/women exploit the legal system and DO lie, is no good, logical reason to go around thinking they all might be liars. I wish, without breaking forum guidelines, that I could convey to you what I am thinking right now. I guess I'm on the other side of the fence. Since evidence has been wiped away, all I can ask of you is to take My word about what I know. My problem is...... I have seen it. I've sat back and watched people allege abuse without basis in fact and it makes Me want to scream. For what purpose? The best I can figure is because the accuser wants to create harm. At times, they even wrap it up in some kind of fantasy that they are the good person. No, it's not as rare as you think. Not these days. Not with social media. It was once said that people believe anything they read in print. I can assure you that this still happens. These days, "print" is so much easier to obtain. Since Steven brought this thread here, I have looked at Myself a lot as a top. How easily My reputation could be destroyed. What defense would I have against accusations? I'll even admit that I've got some far out kinks, love consent/non-consent. Where would the "community" stand to defend Me? All it takes for My name to crumble, My reputation, is one allegation. Just one person with a lack of ethics or an ax to grind. I appreciate you speaking for the victim. I speak for the accused, who very well may be innocent.

JustDragonflies -> RE: What actions , if any, should I take? (5/8/2013 11:43:15 AM)
How did you know for sure that they were lies? Meaning, the times you say you saw abuse allegations but it wasn't factual.

PeonForHer -> RE: What actions , if any, should I take? (5/8/2013 12:00:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven All I've got is hearsay. If I told a cop "I've heard really bad things about this person but have never witnessed anything," he'd laugh at me and throw me out. Is it really entirely that way? Might the police not at least put the issue on file for future use, if need be? Also, might you not be obliged, legally, to say something to them? Just pondering things, here. I'm not familiar with either the law or the culture regarding the reporting of rape in your country. Yes, that is really the case. What exactly are they going to file away? Some guy heard bad stuff about another guy? Were they to make a habit of this, there wouldn't be enough room to file it all. Ah. I've been going through the FL thread in question - https://fetlife.com/users/101789/posts/1513455 - and discovered the comment: "Actually . . . the burden of proof falls on the state, not the victim unless it is a civil action where the burden of proof is much lower and easier to establish." This was said by a person on that thread who claims to be a lawyer. Assuming that's the case, then the legal situation is roughly the same as it is here in the UK with regard to one thing: the difference between what we call criminal, versus civil, matters.

LillyoftheVally -> RE: What actions , if any, should I take? (5/8/2013 12:09:13 PM)
This has been so curious to watch. I feel so sorry for anyone reading this who has been assaulted and are nervous about telling anyone, this thread and the ones on FL will certainly make them rethink. What with all the misquoting, heresay and just general opinions this whole thing has become more than a car crash. Thing is I am sure that if the mentor group had handled this a little more sensitively in the first place this wouldn't happen and people from around the world wouldn't be weighing in with their decision about whether the bloke is guilty or not. I really can't imagine being in the shoes of any of the main people involved in all this stuff I really can't. It does really open my eyes though, the way that the debate has split in two has shown me a couple of things. One being that some people are really quick to hang a person with no real knowledge but just as quick people will make all sorts of assumptions about the person who told the story in the first place. There seems to be so little balance here in a case where sitting on the fence seems to be one of the most logical options available.

LafayetteLady -> RE: What actions , if any, should I take? (5/8/2013 12:18:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MsEloquence As far as I know, reporting things that you think are illegal or wrong is an obligation laid on all citizens. No, it isn't. A citizen is not obligated to report something they heard from someone else. That's absolutely ridiculous. As Steven has already said, all he has is heresay, nothing factual.

LafayetteLady -> RE: What actions , if any, should I take? (5/8/2013 12:25:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JustDragonflies quote: ORIGINAL: evesgrden quote: I must say, rape occurs on a variety of levels, some of which are acknowledged by the legal system, and some of which are not, yet. What do you believe is rape, but is not acknowledged as such by the legal system? I can't deny that I sort of bristled at this "what do you believe is rape" which I, probably irrationally, felt was sort of an invalidating way to phrase it, as though this is something I, independently made up and just "decided" to believe, or that this is my original concept. Probably you didn't mean it that way! So what sorts of rape occur that isn't acknowledged as such by the legal system? Rape in which the victim doesn't necessarily verbalize the word "No." or other such refusals. They think it or feel it, they imply it, but don't outright say it. If they've been pressured, have other psychological issues etc etc but no threat of harm was present, most legal systems wouldn't identify that as rape. But it felt, looked, was rape to the woman/man. There are lots of other weird grey areas but this is one of the most common situations where rape occurs and isn't legally acknowledged in SOME places. This might help answer some of your rape related questions, particularly about what rape/sexual assault/sexual abuse is. http://www.rainn.org/get-information/types-of-sexual-assault/was-it-rape Sorry, but even the link you provide doesn't support your theory of what is not rape by the legal system's standards.

LafayetteLady -> RE: What actions , if any, should I take? (5/8/2013 12:27:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven All I've got is hearsay. If I told a cop "I've heard really bad things about this person but have never witnessed anything," he'd laugh at me and throw me out. Is it really entirely that way? Might the police not at least put the issue on file for future use, if need be? Also, might you not be obliged, legally, to say something to them? Just pondering things, here. I'm not familiar with either the law or the culture regarding the reporting of rape in your country. Yes, that is really the case. What exactly are they going to file away? Some guy heard bad stuff about another guy? Were they to make a habit of this, there wouldn't be enough room to file it all. Ah. I've been going through the FL thread in question - https://fetlife.com/users/101789/posts/1513455 - and discovered the comment: "Actually . . . the burden of proof falls on the state, not the victim unless it is a civil action where the burden of proof is much lower and easier to establish." This was said by a person on that thread who claims to be a lawyer. Assuming that's the case, then the legal situation is roughly the same as it is here in the UK with regard to one thing: the difference between what we call criminal, versus civil, matters. Yes, the burden of proof falls on the state. However, what we were discussing was DS reporting it to the police and the whys and why nots of him doing so. That is, completely different. Also, if a true comparison was to be made in this situation, the burden of proof is not the criminal level of without a reasonable doubt, but rather the civil level, or preponderance of the evidence.

SeekingTrinity -> RE: What actions , if any, should I take? (5/8/2013 12:30:25 PM)
~FRing it~ That's exactly where Im at with this too, Lady Pact. I love WIITWD and have spent years learning how to be as safe as I can. I make it a point to continue my education by attending workshops and trainings to keep up on my skills. I take all the steps to do it right... And I could see everything crumble and shatter around my feet with accusations against me. Not legal ones, which bear a considerably more stringent burden of proof...beyond a reasonable doubt. It's horrifying to see that it might only take the word of someone in an online social media setting to destroy everything I've worked so hard to build. It pains me to think that I could be tried, convicted, and executed in a social media trial. Am I saying these women are lying? Hell no! I don't have any credible evidence to go on at all to say something like that. Can people lie about heinous crimes committed against them? Sadly, yes. We had a case here a few years ago where a woman claimed to have had a stranger throw acid in her face. Turns out she doused her own face with drain cleaner. Another case happened this week where a teen claimed to have been kidnapped by a Hispanic man. She admitted later she lied. And perhaps the most infamous recent case was the 2006 Duke Lacrosse case. It happens as well. Fence sitting does seem most logical, but it seems like you almost have to pick one side of the fence or the other. If you caution against warning the community that this guy could be a malicious evil fuck of a man based only on what we've been given, it's almost like you are seen as not believing the accusers and are advocating support of rape culture. At least that was what the take home message was for me from the other site in particular. Does it really have to be black and white like that? Especially considering that Im only getting nth-hand information. And when I say "you" during this paragraph, it's a general YOU...no one specific in mind. Unfortunately once the genie is out of the bottle, you play hell trying to stuff him back in.

evesgrden -> RE: What actions , if any, should I take? (5/8/2013 12:43:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JustDragonflies quote: ORIGINAL: evesgrden quote: I must say, rape occurs on a variety of levels, some of which are acknowledged by the legal system, and some of which are not, yet. What do you believe is rape, but is not acknowledged as such by the legal system? I can't deny that I sort of bristled at this "what do you believe is rape" which I, probably irrationally, felt was sort of an invalidating way to phrase it, as though this is something I, independently made up and just "decided" to believe, or that this is my original concept. Probably you didn't mean it that way! So what sorts of rape occur that isn't acknowledged as such by the legal system? Rape in which the victim doesn't necessarily verbalize the word "No." or other such refusals. They think it or feel it, they imply it, but don't outright say it. If they've been pressured, have other psychological issues etc etc but no threat of harm was present, most legal systems wouldn't identify that as rape. But it felt, looked, was rape to the woman/man. There are lots of other weird grey areas but this is one of the most common situations where rape occurs and isn't legally acknowledged in SOME places. This might help answer some of your rape related questions, particularly about what rape/sexual assault/sexual abuse is. http://www.rainn.org/get-information/types-of-sexual-assault/was-it-rape Your first instincts were right actually, you should be bristling at my asking about what else should be considered rape. Think it? Feel it? Imply it???? I can't tell you how vehemently I disagree with that. You expect a man to be a mind reader? Holy crap.... That is SO off the rails to me.. and I'm someone who was assaulted, and force was used, and violence was used (stomped on my foot. broke my big toe, popped the nail off... I stopped fighting cuz I was out of my league.. live to fight another day and I did, but 'nuff about that). So in your world, does every woman who's ever thought "geeze.. isn't done yet???" a victim of rape? If you're screwing doggy style how does he know you don't want to continue if you say nothing and continue fer chrisssake??? The thought police scare me.... WAY more than the guy who assaulted me. And if someone's been "pressured" then press charges for extortion or coercion. While we have the hood up, that's my thinking on sexual harassment too. Thinking or feeling "no"? ... my sentiment: no no no and no again; 9 ways to Sunday NO. Heavens, it's hard enough to figure out the truth when you have actual behavior to evaluate. Sorry, but that kind of thinking really scares me.

UllrsIshtar -> RE: What actions , if any, should I take? (5/8/2013 1:02:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JustDragonflies So what sorts of rape occur that isn't acknowledged as such by the legal system? Rape in which the victim doesn't necessarily verbalize the word "No." or other such refusals. They think it or feel it, they imply it, but don't outright say it. If they've been pressured, have other psychological issues etc etc but no threat of harm was present, most legal systems wouldn't identify that as rape. But it felt, looked, was rape to the woman/man. When speaking of adults with their mental faculties in place, barring physical threat to their safety being present -like a gun or a knife being held to their head- people refusing to vocalize lack of consent are not raped, even if there is pressure in place like "I'll break up with you if you don't" or "you're a bad sub if you don't". Your opinion disgusts me. It's people like you, and opinions like that, which make it harder for people who are legitimately raped to come forward. It's positions like that that breed a culture in which rape victims need to be quizzed about whether or not they actually refused consent or not. It's that attitude that makes it dangerous for people to have sex with, or top, anybody, even after the other person has consented. It's that refusal of personal responsibility for what you are ALLOWING to happen to you that makes threads like this happen, and speculation like this happen. It's statements like that which muddle up the lines between rape victims and people refusing to be accountable for their own actions that cause legitimate rape to become a trivialized thing. You should be ashamed of yourself.

LafayetteLady -> RE: What actions , if any, should I take? (5/8/2013 1:02:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kalikshama Well, what came to my mind was that the mentor's group said they had a policy of not getting involved in breakup situations, but if she had a police report, they'd consider it. kali, I'm actually referring to both your recent posts. But obviously, some truncating is necessary at this point. I think I know your stance on this, but even so.... The group DID consider the situation of the OP over on FL. They then proceeded to point out to her, very clearly, why they weren't in a position based on what she provided them, to do anything about it. Admittedly, there were some glaring, gaping holes in that report that leave the group with no other choice. On to your other post (I love the comment about attending swinger's clubs, by the way).... Sadly, what I have seen bandied around the internet and especially this site, regarding rape is disturbing. Again, I don't believe that anyone deserves to be raped, and I believe that rapists do deserve stricter sentences. There seems to be a group of people who want to increase or broaden the definition of rape. Since it is more often men that are accused of rape, I will use the pronouns for males, regardless of the reality that women can also rape. They want to broaden it to such an extent that essentially, a guy should really get a written, notarized statement from a women consenting to sex. Since she can withdraw that consent at any time, that statement is worthless as well. I do agree it is also possible for a husband to rape his wife. Basically, we are telling men, don't have sex at all because a woman can legitimately claim rape after the fact and regardless of what she said at the time, we will believe her and then proceed to ruin your life. These groups are encouraging women to abdicate their own responsibility. Look at some of the things said here: FL quote: I only just realized I was sexually assaulted. quote: He required a kiss on the mouth whenever I saw him, even after I left his service. In fact, that's why I'm not even friends with him now, because he required kissing on the mouth/French kissing for even a friendship. He would order/instruct me to let him play with my breasts or kiss/molest my stomach. quote: I was repeatedly pushed into sexual acts that I was uncomfortable with without being asked where my boundaries were or what agreements I had with my partner. Does anyone not see a problem with this on the part of the person writing? A lack of ability to create personal boundaries does not equal sexual assault here. There is nothing here about her being afraid not to obey. This is my point through this whole thing. These groups are encouraging women to believe they were sexually assaulted because of their own lack of boundaries. Why do you need to be asked where your boundaries only? Why can't you verbalize your boundaries without being asked? It really does seem that one person decided they were raped, and in talking with others has convinced them they were raped also. Meanwhile, in every case, the accuser is using the fact that they were s-types as validation for them not being responsible. So yes, we need more education on this. Some of you will claim that sub frenzy has them so excited they aren't able to reasonably decide their own boundaries. But I see this as women who, even in the vanilla world aren't likely to be competent to make reasonable decisions and become s-types because they lack the self sufficiency to begin with. There has also been a lot of talk about why they would be "too traumatized" to go to law enforcement. I can see that with a real rape victim. However, if you are traumatized, you aren't going to be telling your story all over the internet to anyone who will listen. These people don't have anonymity, they are all members of the same group, attending events together, so they know each other in real life, face to face. The OP on FL, like it or not, didn't get what she wanted from the leaders of the group. He even posted on the thread, openly explaining why (or is he also a liar?). It wasn't until she didn't get a satisfactory result that she has come out to post over on FL, defaming everyone involved, and ignoring her own responsibility here. Even the person who I quoted above....she didn't know she was "sexually assaulted" until others told her. Really?

LafayetteLady -> RE: What actions , if any, should I take? (5/8/2013 1:11:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar quote: ORIGINAL: JustDragonflies So what sorts of rape occur that isn't acknowledged as such by the legal system? Rape in which the victim doesn't necessarily verbalize the word "No." or other such refusals. They think it or feel it, they imply it, but don't outright say it. If they've been pressured, have other psychological issues etc etc but no threat of harm was present, most legal systems wouldn't identify that as rape. But it felt, looked, was rape to the woman/man. When speaking of adults with their mental faculties in place, barring physical threat to their safety being present -like a gun or a knife being held to their head- people refusing to vocalize lack of consent are not raped, even if there is pressure in place like "I'll break up with you if you don't" or "you're a bad sub if you don't". Your opinion disgusts me. It's people like you, and opinions like that, which make it harder for people who are legitimately raped to come forward. It's positions like that that breed a culture in which rape victims need to be quizzed about whether or not they actually refused consent or not. It's that attitude that makes it dangerous for people to have sex with, or top, anybody, even after the other person has consented. It's that refusal of personal responsibility for what you are ALLOWING to happen to you that makes threads like this happen, and speculation like this happen. It's statements like that which muddle up the lines between rape victims and people refusing to be accountable for their own actions that cause legitimate rape to become a trivialized thing. You should be ashamed of yourself. [sm=applause.gif][sm=applause.gif][sm=applause.gif][sm=applause.gif][sm=applause.gif][sm=applause.gif][sm=applause.gif][sm=applause.gif] Well said. You have verbalized what has made me so angry about this whole mess. To the OP: Steven, I believe you are basically a good guy, with good intentions overall. However, it is clear that your membership in this group outweighs your disgust at the accused (and I do believe he is very likely an asshole). If his membership and attendance disgusted you that much, you would leave, even if your departure and absence was only until this whole thing blew over.

PeonForHer -> RE: What actions , if any, should I take? (5/8/2013 1:42:34 PM)
quote: However, if you are traumatized, you aren't going to be telling your story all over the internet to anyone who will listen. This is the second time this has been said. Why do you believe this?

UllrsIshtar -> RE: What actions , if any, should I take? (5/8/2013 1:55:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: However, if you are traumatized, you aren't going to be telling your story all over the internet to anyone who will listen. This is the second time this has been said. Why do you believe this? To be fair, that's not what I said, if I'm the other person you're referring to. I said that anybody who is unable to speak to the cops about it because of trauma, is not going to be telling the story all over to anybody else who will listen. Either you're too traumatized to talk about it to random people, in which case you don't talk about it to random people, or you're not too traumatized to talk about it to random people, in which case not talking about it to the cops is a choice, and not a result of being too traumatized to talk about it. Now I can definitely understand that there a reasons why a person who was legitimately raped would choose not to talk to the cops about it... I can't say that talking to the cops would be a pleasant experience, but claiming that you're not too traumatized to talk to everybody BUT the cops, while at the same time being too traumatized to specifically talk to them is bullshit in my opinion. I don't belief that trauma can be that conveniently selective.

MsEloquence -> RE: What actions , if any, should I take? (5/8/2013 2:23:30 PM)
I thought the word "obligation" might raise hackles. Of course we aren't legally obligated to help others or stop wrong doing. Most people though, will consider action for some apparent wrong doing. This is a case where if I had been Steven, hearsay or not, I'd have reported what I thought happened. And if the police told me I was a moron I would have lived with it.

PeonForHer -> RE: What actions , if any, should I take? (5/8/2013 2:37:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MsEloquence Most people though, will consider action for some apparent wrong doing. This is a case where if I had been Steven, hearsay or not, I'd have reported what I thought happened. And if the police told me I was a moron I would have lived with it. Yep. I suppose it depends at least in part on how you feel about the crime of rape. If I suspected a child molestation, or of an assault of a different kind . . . but come to think of it, even a theft . . . I think I'd feel a sense of duty to report it.

kalikshama -> RE: What actions , if any, should I take? (5/8/2013 2:53:52 PM)
quote: So what sorts of rape occur that isn't acknowledged as such by the legal system? Rape in which the victim doesn't necessarily verbalize the word "No." or other such refusals. They think it or feel it, they imply it, but don't outright say it. If they've been pressured, have other psychological issues etc etc but no threat of harm was present, most legal systems wouldn't identify that as rape. But it felt, looked, was rape to the woman/man. There are lots of other weird grey areas but this is one of the most common situations where rape occurs and isn't legally acknowledged in SOME places. This might help answer some of your rape related questions, particularly about what rape/sexual assault/sexual abuse is. http://www.rainn.org/get-information/types-of-sexual-assault/was-it-rape From your link, for it to be rape, if a person is capable of giving consent (of age, mentally capable, not drugged or unconscious) they have to: 1. Withdraw consent, 2. Be forced physically, or 3. Be threatened with serious physical injury Think it? Give me a break. Or as UllrsIshtar says: quote: It's that refusal of personal responsibility for what you are ALLOWING to happen to you that makes threads like this happen, and speculation like this happen. It's statements like that which muddle up the lines between rape victims and people refusing to be accountable for their own actions that cause legitimate rape to become a trivialized thing.

Page: << < prev 10 11 [12] 13 14 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.0625