RE: What actions , if any, should I take?

RE: What actions , if any, should I take? (Full Version)

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UllrsIshtar -> RE: What actions , if any, should I take? (5/8/2013 6:46:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: littlewonder Ok, she may not have that experience, but I can tell you I definitely do. I have had the experience of an event legally defined as rape. I've also had the experience of events being so traumatizing that I couldn't easily tell others about it, though they weren't the rapes in question. What I haven't had is the experience of the trauma causing me to be unable to talk about something being so selective in which stranger I could, and which stranger I couldn't randomly tell about it. So maybe other people have had that happen to them, but from my own experiences, I find that very hard to understand and/or believe.

SpiritedRadiance -> RE: What actions , if any, should I take? (5/8/2013 6:50:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hera462 The bulk of My post was meant to address the doubt expressed of the victims, Not to vilify the accused. I do believe that i expressed that i could not be the judge nor jury of his guilt or innocence but if that in any way has been confused with My having a belief that he is a serial rapist please let this serve as an expression of clarification on My part. Because even if the reports of rape turn out to be false.... the accused rapist's life is Completely ruined... custody of children can be revoked Jobs can be lossed. NONE of this can be revoked.... Im the survior of several rapes as a child... I survived a domestically abusive partner Sorry, but if a crime is commited against you you grow a pair and go to the cops... Here in Philly not to long ago we had something similar happen A "man" raped a "woman" However there was no rape, the woman lied to cover up cheating on her partner, I know this because of the texts she sent me the day afterwards. 4 months later when her partner found out suddenly that night was rape... not Oh my god i just had the best sex of my life and i dont know how to tell my partner... she went to fet, all of a sudden with NO ONE KNOWING this guy... he had attacked violated or raped over 30 women... Some who he had never met in his life.. Sorry, but unless youve gone to the police dont turn the community upside down...

LafayetteLady -> RE: What actions , if any, should I take? (5/8/2013 7:04:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady How would you know that, LL? Ishtar has said she's no expert - and I'm no expert either. Your level of confidence about this is a bit surprising to me, to say the least. quote: It's no shock to me that you are surprised by it. However, I have a long career history of being able to make those kinds of judgments and doing so with accuracy. What career history is this, LL? As an American, I do of course loathe and despise you deeply, and have therefore not absorbed as much of what you've said about your career as might be useful for present purposes. Could you provide me with a summary? Well, since you are a Brit with no actual understanding of anything American, and so self absorbed all you listen to is the sound of your own voice and that of those who admire your abs, there's no point. Of course, the fact that a summary of my career experience is none of your damned business, but easily searchable through these forums, perhaps when you are through with your latest round of crunches, you will search it. Other than that, much like the accused in this situation, I have no need to prove myself to you. quote: quote: I've said many times, that the accused not speaking up doesn't scream guilt to me. You have heard of "not dignifying something with an answer," haven't you? Yep. But, just as the women who've been, to you and others, somewhat suspiciously 'traumatised' by their experience of this man; I'm very suspicious of a man who is accused of rape and says nothing - nothing at all. Me, I'd say at least one thing - "That just isn't me. I wouldn't do that, I couldn't do that." If you're astonished, you say so. You absolutely don't just shut your trap and absent yourself from internet and real-time society, as this man seems to have done. Actually, had you bothered to read all the posts, you would have seen that DS stated when he resigned as a mentor, he stated he was innocent. I realize that isn't enough for you, but the fact remains he did address the issue. That he has decided to distance himself from people who are referring to him as a serial rapist shouldn't come as a surprise.

LafayetteLady -> RE: What actions , if any, should I take? (5/8/2013 7:06:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aswad quote: ORIGINAL: evesgrden Sorry, but that kind of thinking really scares me. «Are you willing to gamble that her 'yes' really meant yes?» - Chief Inspector, Oslo PD. If you have one glass each, her consent is invalid, but his responsibility is unchanged. Fighing against tighter laws is unfortunately the only way to avoid having women's sexuality and autonomy legally reduced to "but women are just delicate dolls that can't make their own choices" and having men yet again defined as the sole party responsible for a woman's choices, just minus the option of influencing them. Old school misogyny rebranded as feminism. I consider women as capable as men, so I'm rather offended by such developments, even disregarding the risk aspect. IWYW, — Aswad. And that is actually what is happening with these groups. The idea that you were raped simply because you "thought" about saying no, is ridiculous. It really does reduce women to these "poor delicate things" who can't be held responsible for their own actions.

LadyPact -> RE: What actions , if any, should I take? (5/8/2013 7:15:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer Fat chance though, really, LP, of such evidence. The bottom line, for me, is that the issue of rape goes to a little closed world that the law can't effectively reach. In private, between somebody strong, and somebody not so strong. Me, I don't know how I'd put my life together if the people I wanted to go to bed with were a third bigger and stronger than me, and more aggressive with it. Thank god I'm not female. Bum deal, if you ask me. Well, don't discount that more aggressive part. [8D] See what I just did there? I made an advance, albeit via the net, about how I'd like to take advantage of you. If I were male, do you even realize how people would vilify Me for doing even that much? Now, you happen to know, personally, that I'm kind of a sap. If any of these women came to Me, crying, telling Me what had happened to them, I'd probably believe it. Let me emphasize this. That is not Steven's position here. It's all second hand information. That's My problem with this.

littleclip -> RE: What actions , if any, should I take? (5/8/2013 7:36:09 PM)
if the allegations are unfounded then it is not a crime just allegations but if there forms a pattern around someone either the defendant or plaintiff then there might be some room to worry but otherwise just take normal precautions that safe sane folks use.

littlewonder -> RE: What actions , if any, should I take? (5/8/2013 7:41:23 PM)
quote: See what I just did there? I made an advance, albeit via the net, about how I'd like to take advantage of you. If I were male, do you even realize how people would vilify Me for doing even that much? Now, you happen to know, personally, that I'm kind of a sap. If any of these women came to Me, crying, telling Me what had happened to them, I'd probably believe it. Let me emphasize this. That is not Steven's position here. It's all second hand information. That's My problem with this. This reminds me of the times I would hear complaints online from women about how a man raped them and I would start asking questions only to find out they never met the man and he "raped" her online. lol [8\|]

Duskypearls -> RE: What actions , if any, should I take? (5/8/2013 7:45:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally This has been so curious to watch. I feel so sorry for anyone reading this who has been assaulted and are nervous about telling anyone, this thread and the ones on FL will certainly make them rethink. What with all the misquoting, heresay and just general opinions this whole thing has become more than a car crash. Thing is I am sure that if the mentor group had handled this a little more sensitively in the first place this wouldn't happen and people from around the world wouldn't be weighing in with their decision about whether the bloke is guilty or not. I really can't imagine being in the shoes of any of the main people involved in all this stuff I really can't. It does really open my eyes though, the way that the debate has split in two has shown me a couple of things. One being that some people are really quick to hang a person with no real knowledge but just as quick people will make all sorts of assumptions about the person who told the story in the first place. There seems to be so little balance here in a case where sitting on the fence seems to be one of the most logical options available. Here, here, I'm with you, Lilly. And I'd go so far as to liken it to a train wreck.

theRose4U -> RE: What actions , if any, should I take? (5/8/2013 7:56:46 PM)
Just catching up on this show, haven't been to DS's event but sadly think I know "the bastard in question". Local attorney puts together gang bangs, kink parties & also attends spanking events. Advertises on craigs 50 or more times a day for "sub sluts", "gang bang whores". He's learned by process of elimination to put "softer" ads out as well, but its the same abusive prick. No idea on the legitimacy of rape alligations but if I had to pick someone to "do no harm" to newbies or abuse his self imposed "dumbinance" it would be this guy. Personally any party he attended would seriously make me question the host & likely leave never to return.

Level -> RE: What actions , if any, should I take? (5/8/2013 7:58:37 PM)
I actually think quite a few people have found a position on that fence.

DarkSteven -> RE: What actions , if any, should I take? (5/8/2013 9:01:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: theRose4U Just catching up on this show, haven't been to DS's event but sadly think I know "the bastard in question". Local attorney puts together gang bangs, kink parties & also attends spanking events. Advertises on craigs 50 or more times a day for "sub sluts", "gang bang whores". He's learned by process of elimination to put "softer" ads out as well, but its the same abusive prick. No idea on the legitimacy of rape alligations but if I had to pick someone to "do no harm" to newbies or abuse his self imposed "dumbinance" it would be this guy. Personally any party he attended would seriously make me question the host & likely leave never to return. Rose, the man in question is NOT an attorney. And I know of only one male attorney who has attended Scarlet Moons in the past, and he no longer attends and has never put together a party such as you describe. Let's not spread rumors in the forums. Feel free to PM me should you wish to discuss this privately.

DarkSteven -> RE: What actions , if any, should I take? (5/8/2013 9:20:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MsEloquence As far as I know, reporting things that you think are illegal or wrong is an obligation laid on all citizens. That is not true within the United States. There is no obligation to report illegal acts, and there is of course no obligation to report things which are legal but seem wrong. quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact I have looked at Myself a lot as a top. How easily My reputation could be destroyed. What defense would I have against accusations? I'll even admit that I've got some far out kinks, love consent/non-consent. Where would the "community" stand to defend Me? All it takes for My name to crumble, My reputation, is one allegation. Just one person with a lack of ethics or an ax to grind. LP, you're too pessimistic. You've spent decades building your reputation in Georgia, California, and Alaska. Unless Jay Wiseman or John Warren make allegations, the accuser would have a hard time keeping credibility. It's not hard to build a good reputation. For instance, you've done plenty of demos, helped others get oriented, and topped in public. For my part, I've introduced plenty of newcomers to the scene (many of whom realized later that I could have taken advantage of them and didn't), have several exes who parted with me on good terms, and have gone out of my way to assist others. I've topped in public. I have had some people make claims against me, and needed my reputation to deal with them.

UllrsIshtar -> RE: What actions , if any, should I take? (5/8/2013 9:25:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MsEloquence As far as I know, reporting things that you think are illegal or wrong is an obligation laid on all citizens. You should give serious consideration to moving to Airstrip One.

OsideGirl -> RE: What actions , if any, should I take? (5/8/2013 9:46:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SpiritedRadiance Because even if the reports of rape turn out to be false.... the accused rapist's life is Completely ruined... custody of children can be revoked Jobs can be lossed. NONE of this can be revoked.... Even if a report of rape in a BDSM environment is proven to be true.... the victim's life can be completely ruined.... Custody of children can be revoked Jobs can be lost Family relationships can be lost friendships can be lost black balled within the community With that perspective, it becomes more understandable why more women in the community don't go to the authorities. And only rely on conversations within the community. I'll be the first to say that a lot of what I read seems to be a lack of common sense. But, since I wasn't there, I'm not going to make a verdict either way. There seems to be enough substantiation that the guy in question is a jerk, for that reason alone I would decline attending a small 40 person gathering with him in attendance.

LafayetteLady -> RE: What actions , if any, should I take? (5/8/2013 9:46:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: theRose4U Just catching up on this show, haven't been to DS's event but sadly think I know "the bastard in question". Local attorney puts together gang bangs, kink parties & also attends spanking events. Advertises on craigs 50 or more times a day for "sub sluts", "gang bang whores". He's learned by process of elimination to put "softer" ads out as well, but its the same abusive prick. No idea on the legitimacy of rape alligations but if I had to pick someone to "do no harm" to newbies or abuse his self imposed "dumbinance" it would be this guy. Personally any party he attended would seriously make me question the host & likely leave never to return. Well, even though it isn't the guy you mention, the description you give isn't rape either. Seriously, if someone answers an ad for a "gangbang whore," can they really claim they were raped and forced into sex?

LadyPact -> RE: What actions , if any, should I take? (5/8/2013 10:54:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven LP, you're too pessimistic. My Dear. My lack of optimism is one of My greatest faults. [;)] quote: You've spent decades building your reputation in Georgia, California, and Alaska. Unless Jay Wiseman or John Warren make allegations, the accuser would have a hard time keeping credibility. Nah. I don't think either of them would bottom to Me. [8D] All a reputation is would be word of mouth. As far as that, yes, Mine is pretty good. What I've had the fortune to build could just as easily be destroyed. quote: It's not hard to build a good reputation. For instance, you've done plenty of demos, helped others get oriented, and topped in public. Yes, I've been lucky and I've done a lot. Could I have done as much if I were male? It's impossible to say. quote: For my part, I've introduced plenty of newcomers to the scene (many of whom realized later that I could have taken advantage of them and didn't), have several exes who parted with me on good terms, and have gone out of my way to assist others. I've topped in public. I have had some people make claims against me, and needed my reputation to deal with them. Reputation helps. I'm not disputing that. What if we didn't have that reputation, Steven? What if people didn't know us, you or Me, and such claims were made? What would we stand on then? Just between you and Me, I happen to think you are a pretty good guy. I honestly think you brought this topic here because you are trying to do the right thing. I'm even willing to go so far as to say that I'm sure this has been difficult for you, your city, and your community. I hope you guys heal. The only wisdom that I have for you is to not be any more involved than others have made you. Lend your voice to the victim support group that is sprouting in your area. Educate. Not about the man. About the situation. If you spend your time warning people about this one guy, and all of the focus is on one person, what will you do when the next situation comes along? I say this often about the online word. If there are no prey, there will be no predators. They move on to greener pastures. That's something positive that you can do.

TwoHeartsBeatOne -> RE: What actions , if any, should I take? (5/9/2013 12:13:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven Naturally, there are some in the community that claim that she is "harboring" B and that party attendees are "supporting" an accused rapist. I have no problems with ignoring that - I attend where I want. My issue is that Fetlife shows party attendees ahead of time. I could easily pick off the attendees-to-be that he would be interested in, open up conversations with them, and warn them of B. I want to head off any possible issues for them. If I do this, word will get out, and I will be made a central figure in a shitstorm. Tasha and I will also get banned from the parties. Since we're well known and liked there, it will cause the community to implode further. Any thoughts or suggestions? DS - This is what came to mind when I read the part in which you say you "have no problem ignoring that." quote: I swore never to be silent whenever and wherever human beings endure suffering and humiliation. We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented. Elie Wiesel I've been reading your posts for hmmm, 2 years now, and only know you in that way. I have great respect for your opinions. I had the impression that you were more of an Elie Wiesel sort of thinker/feeler. So, I'm not so sure that I believe that you aren't feeling some very emotional conflicts over this. I think if it was just nasty rumors about someone, yeah, you could ignore it... but this? But, okay, you say the issue is that you and Tasha would likely experience a loss of pleasure if you do follow your protective instincts. And, that this would also affect the community - "implode even more." I spent all night reading all 275 posts here AND the Fet threads, before writing this now. I feel I can safely reassure you that at this point, the community has already imploded. So much so, that I expect the TV movie of the week to be out later this year. That ship sailed. It's an international story. (and I mean absolutely NO disrespect to the victims) That leaves two issues really. First, this is a matter of you living with your own choices, right? On the one hand, you have your inner voice nagging at you to protect potential victims. This seems to be in keeping with your whole self. Congruent, right? You are one of the good guys. You see enough of a threat to cause you concern. On the other hand, you will face consequences that may mean the loss of a familiar, social pleasure for both you, and your beloved. You have the power to assert your own influence in the situation, which brings me to the second issue... What do you value? No one here can answer that for you, but it seems to me that your inner voice is going to be giving you hell if you don't act on it. What would mentors do? Say I'm right and the tv movie of the week thing happens. Sex, violence, and the hidden world of BDSM during this time of Fifty Shades popularity - this stuff will sell. If the movie were to be made, Steven, what do you want the world to know that your character did? So, either way... your inner voice or your public image, should help make it clear to you exactly where you stand. Then it's a simple matter of trying to do what you sincerely believe is the most effective way to deal with your part in the community. If you were my son, I would say, "Follow your heart. Take care of the hearts of others. Do your best." If you do that, and make a mistake, it won't matter so much in the long run. I wish you all the best in this. :)

PeonForHer -> RE: What actions , if any, should I take? (5/9/2013 5:21:10 AM)
quote: Here's something else to mull over. Most rape allegations are not fake. False rape allegations are very rare, in fact. Yes. Difficult to work out, of course, but less than ten percent of them are estimated to be so, according to the Wiki entry: "DiCanio (1993) states that while researchers and prosecutors do not agree on the exact percentage of false allegations, they generally agree on a range of 2% to 8%.[16] Taylor (1987) wrote that "suspicion and disbelief of women who charge men with rape have for centuries had a stranglehold on [...] laws nominally designed to protect women against rape. As a result, many women did not report or prosecute rapes because the process was so often humiliating.""

PeonForHer -> RE: What actions , if any, should I take? (5/9/2013 5:43:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer Fat chance though, really, LP, of such evidence. The bottom line, for me, is that the issue of rape goes to a little closed world that the law can't effectively reach. In private, between somebody strong, and somebody not so strong. Me, I don't know how I'd put my life together if the people I wanted to go to bed with were a third bigger and stronger than me, and more aggressive with it. Thank god I'm not female. Bum deal, if you ask me. Well, don't discount that more aggressive part. [8D] See what I just did there? I made an advance, albeit via the net, about how I'd like to take advantage of you. If I were male, do you even realize how people would vilify Me for doing even that much? Now, you happen to know, personally, that I'm kind of a sap. If any of these women came to Me, crying, telling Me what had happened to them, I'd probably believe it. Let me emphasize this. That is not Steven's position here. It's all second hand information. That's My problem with this. Nowhere in that post did you mention how much you loved my abs, LP, so I don't know why I should be replying to this . . . . ;-) You're not a man and that, inevitably, changes what can and can't be said by you to me. I think both sexes generally learn to take that for granted. Also: Hadn't Steven received PMs from one or more of these women? But even if he hadn't, I'm not sure that would make much of a difference to my position, anyway.

SilverBoat -> RE: What actions , if any, should I take? (5/9/2013 5:47:13 AM)
@ TwoHearts ... Agreed. Steven ultimately has to live with his own choices on this. From what I've seen of him and this situation, considering his posts over the years, and what I've read about these events here and elsewhere? With the large amount of uncertainty and consequences? And not really helped by the persons here (and elsewhere) who've got an axe to grind, who identify with the jerk/predator/etc? It's definitely a do-your-thoughtful-best sort of thing. ... What I'd add to your post, is that the choices of attending or not, warning or not, etc aren't one-time decisions that have to be held that way indefinitely. If more facts come out about the incidents, as more consequences unfold, the OP can reassess the situation, revisit his choices and adjust as he sees appropriate. SB

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