RE: Loss of control

RE: Loss of control (Full Version)

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UllrsIshtar -> RE: Loss of control (5/12/2013 10:05:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Missokyst This is still not different because you happen to have lived in a ds relationship. My grandmother just existed until she healed. Sorry, but there is a very definitive difference between being in a relationship where your primary directive is to "obey flawlessly" and being in a relationship where your primary directive is "to be a supportive partner to a leader". I don't care how much a man is in charge of his household, and how much a woman defers to his authority, there is a very definitive difference between shaping your life around the following of a qualified leader, and shaping your mind around obeying without question.

tazzygirl -> RE: Loss of control (5/12/2013 10:12:11 AM)
quote: This is still not different because you happen to have lived in a ds relationship. My grandmother just existed until she healed. She supported and raised her kids (with my dads help) and did nothing else until she moved on and eventually met and married the man I considered my grandfather. And then she thrived! She went from being a cook to owning her own restaurant. When my relationship ended I stopped doing everything that made me happy. I stopped making dolls. I stopped painting and writing. I was.. empty. It took years to recover. That was a "ME" thing. Not because I am submissive but because I am human. How we react to a breakup is on our personality. That may have something to do with having a submissive persona, OR it might just be because that is the way we are programmed to react. D/s or nilla, we are still dealing with humans. Pain is still pain. And the pain of failure HURTS if you need it to hurt. Totally different than when I split from my husband.. I went out and partied like there was no tomorrow. Actually, it is different. I discovered I didnt need a man to make me thrive. I needed someone to structure my life. That has nothing to do with the heart. Its not a life long condition. Its not something that happens until the next one comes along. I still feel a void at times. I have learned how to compensate. The whole point of this thread was to open a dialogue about submissives and the after-the-end of a tpe type relationship. Not to sit here and watch a group of women saying how they are just like vanillas. This has become an example of the problem I pointed out on my OP. "Suck it up, you are no different than anyone else". And, yet, we are. Just because some cannot, or wish not too, see that difference is of little consequence. Are there similarities? Yes. There are also huge differences that are being overlooked.

Missokyst -> RE: Loss of control (5/12/2013 10:15:43 AM)
You are right. This is the reason I chose never to walk that path again. I was a slave to my husband I had to do everything he demanded unless I wanted him to yell directly into my face for hours on end. Cutting those ties allowed me to run wild for a time and party like there was no tomorrow. We ALL react to things differently.

tazzygirl -> RE: Loss of control (5/12/2013 10:18:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Missokyst You are right. This is the reason I chose never to walk that path again. I was a slave to my husband I had to do everything he demanded unless I wanted him to yell directly into my face for hours on end. Cutting those ties allowed me to run wild for a time and party like there was no tomorrow. We ALL react to things differently. Even in that we were different. He never had to do more than ask, or express a want, and it was my desire to give, automatically. It came to a point that I didnt even have to think about him yelling, he never did. He didnt have too. His favorite expression with me "Dont think, just do". That became my life.

NuevaVida -> RE: Loss of control (5/12/2013 10:31:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar I don't care how much a man is in charge of his household, and how much a woman defers to his authority, there is a very definitive difference between shaping your life around the following of a qualified leader, and shaping your mind around obeying without question. I think this is the crux of it. This thread contains posts from those who have first hand experience with having their minds shaped and having to regroup from it, and from those who know of others in similar but different situations, yet who do not have first hand experience in such a situation. No disrespect, but we can reference friends, grandmothers, sisters (in my case, my submissive-wife sister recently widowed with two young sons), and, while those references are interesting, they aren't first hand experience. My whole point in all my posts is that people without first hand experience were saying break ups are not any different than vanilla, and I was attempting to provide ONE example of where it was. Not to convince anyone of anything, but to hopefully shed some insight and expand thinking into the idea that it really is possible to experience that kind of foundational loss, emotional control, etc. All of these arguments that "It's not different" from those who have not served in an Internally Enslaved dynamic offer ideas and theories, and inspire some really good thinking and dialogue, but they do not speak to what some of us have experienced. Not one person can convince me the emotional effects of my divorce was the same as that of my M/s relationship. I lived it, after all. Both were devastating, but for different reasons. And I think that's what tazzy, myself, and others have been trying to say. Not worse or better - just very different. Trying to convince me that my experiences were the same for both is pretty ridiculous.

Missokyst -> RE: Loss of control (5/12/2013 10:31:22 AM)
As was mine after the first few months. Brainwashing is like that.

NuevaVida -> RE: Loss of control (5/12/2013 10:33:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact I'm in the minority in this opinion but I don't see much of an issue with s-types keeping some of those routines at first, even if a dynamic ends. If you had a bedtime, for example, and part of your comfort zone sprang from that, there's no reason you can't keep it just because the Dominant isn't enforcing it. Like the chore list? Start writing your own. This is how you take structuring your life back for yourself. You might start doing these things with the other person in mind. As time goes on, you're putting less and less of the other person in it and more and more of yourself. Sorry I missed this post before. I do see what you're saying here, LP, and the above would apply should my current relationship end. I am not TPE/internally enslaved to him. He has authority over me, but my entire heart/mind/world is not so wrapped around him that I can not function without him. That's the experience I was speaking to earlier, because that's how my last M/s relationship was. Much different than it is today. Last loss had nothing to do with chores or structure. It was all heart/mind control that needed re-mapping.

Missokyst -> RE: Loss of control (5/12/2013 10:36:12 AM)
And my point was that we all react differently. Not everyone is going to have the experience of lack of direction being devasting. The way some of you are presenting it is that because it was a TPE that your confusion is more, bigger, than other people. I say it is only more because that is how you as individuals reacted. When my marriage as a slave ended, I partied. That was how I reacted. When the relationship with the man I loved ended I reacted like I was empty. No two people are going to act the same simply because they engaged in a similar dynamic. And that is why people say it is no different. It is just human. quote: ORIGINAL: NuevaVida And I think that's what tazzy, myself, and others have been trying to say. Not worse or better - just very different. Trying to convince me that my experiences were the same for both is pretty ridiculous.

NuevaVida -> RE: Loss of control (5/12/2013 10:48:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Missokyst And my point was that we all react differently. Not everyone is going to have the experience of lack of direction being devasting. The way some of you are presenting it is that because it was a TPE that your confusion is more, bigger, than other people. I have been saying your first sentence throughout this entire thread. I have NOT been saying this last sentence. It was more intense for me. I have never implied that to be the case for anyone else. I presented one example (me) of the experience many people were saying did not exist. It's very enlightening to see the lack of acceptance of that reality.

NuevaVida -> RE: Loss of control (5/12/2013 11:13:14 AM)
One last thought before I go take my mama out. I've spoken about my divorce and the end of my M/s relationship. Saying there were more intense feelings of loss in my M/s relationship in no way negates or diminishes what I went through in my divorce. In fact, in ways outside of a relationship dynamic, my divorce was much more difficult. In no way am I implying what anyone else has gone through is less than the awfulness that it was.

UllrsIshtar -> RE: Loss of control (5/12/2013 11:17:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NuevaVida In no way am I implying what anyone else has gone through is less than the awfulness that it was. I at least, haven't taken anything you said like that. I'm not even claiming that coming out of a TPE relationship is harder or easier than coming out of any other type of relationships. What I am saying though is that coming out of a TPE relationship is very different than coming out of a relationship that is based on an equal partnership. And that certain types of advice, like "just make yourself do X" after a TPE relationship specifically isn't helpful, precisely because the very thing that makes a TPE breakup different from an equal partnership breakup, is that during a TPE, a submissive is actively trained to not take be in control of their own life. There are very few other situations where a person needs to specifically relearn being in control of themselves, so as hard or as easy those types of breakups may be compared to a TPE breakup, they are at the very least, very very different in the challenges they present.

NuevaVida -> RE: Loss of control (5/12/2013 11:22:06 AM)
I'm in agreement. I appreciate what you've posted in this thread. Thank you, for what it's worth.

Missokyst -> RE: Loss of control (5/12/2013 11:48:04 AM)
it is not a lack of acceptance. I accept that you found it difficult. When I found it difficult, I shut down until I could deal. There was no wailing out to the internet and if there was I wouldn't have done that until I could stand to touch the wound. My objection comes from the premise that because one has been TPE that it makes a universal dynamic. You have provided your experience as an individual. I know people are going to react differently because we are all human. It doesn't matter who you are or what you do, we all will deal with things in what ever way it takes to get by. The problem comes when one expects people to feel the same way as we do at the time. Bringing it into a forum where anyone can answer, of course they are going to get a lot of "get over it" statements. That is the risk we take. I blame that on the immediacy of being in touch with so many who don't know us from squat. To expect complete acceptance of our pain is unrealistic. quote: ORIGINAL: NuevaVida quote: ORIGINAL: Missokyst And my point was that we all react differently. Not everyone is going to have the experience of lack of direction being devasting. The way some of you are presenting it is that because it was a TPE that your confusion is more, bigger, than other people. I have been saying your first sentence throughout this entire thread. I have NOT been saying this last sentence. It was more intense for me. I have never implied that to be the case for anyone else. I presented one example (me) of the experience many people were saying did not exist. It's very enlightening to see the lack of acceptance of that reality.

LadyPact -> RE: Loss of control (5/12/2013 2:27:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar Are you, as a military wife, in a TPE relationship with your husband? Does he control your every choice? How on Earth is being married to an equal who happens to have a demanding job the same as being in an unequal TPE relationship in which the base premise is that you're not allowed to make your own choices? Mistress Military makes more choices for all members of a military family than I think you are giving credit for. Do you think we are living where we want to live? Are you assuming that we're just thrilled when we can't even live on the same continent? Equal partners do both add structure to the relationship. Guess who it is that does the stuff around here when he's got to go somewhere? Whether it's three months across the country for a school or another country for a year, the decisions here at home that were 50% Mine become 100% on Me. The reverse happens as well. I can't speak for all of the branches, but the Army has implemented instruction for when the active duty member comes home. Yes, you're "home" but you have to adapt because the person who stayed took 100% of the authority while you are gone and they run the house their way. quote: Of course one year isn't going to be the same as ten years. But that still leaves the fact that when somebody enters a relationship under the premise that they're no longer responsible/allowed to make their own choices, there is going to be a mental change in them that's going to still be in effect after the relationship ends. Whether that's after one year or ten. Expecting a person to pick up and go on as there hasn't been such a change is ludicrous. It would devaluate the whole idea of a TPE relationship for starters. If you assume that a slave in a TPE relationship is still a self-governing, autonomously acting human being, then what exactly is the point in trying to train them to act as if they're not? And if they're not a self-governing, autonomously acting human being, and have been specifically trained to further that state, why would you assume they can just flip that switch back the way it was after a relationship? Again, I'll defer to those who do instantaneous TPE. Maybe that's why I just don't see or understand the devastation that comes about because somebody stops making their own decisions from day one, spends a year under another person's authority, and within that year becomes so reliant that they can't function the way they did twelve months before that. quote: I'm sorry, I guess I didn't realize you where a TPE slave who has her choices, time, and goals managed for her. I always sorta assumed that you where in control of your own time, and self-directed your life based of your own willpower and motivations. If that's the case, then maybe I'm wrong with slaves often not having the internal fortitude to make themselves do what's best for them after a TPE relationship. If that's not the case, and you don't stop self-directing just because you're in a relationship, then how exactly is your ease at volunteering relevant to how easy or hard a thing it is to do for somebody who has been actively trained to NOT make their own choices and self-direct their time? Nah. I'm just not of the mind that because we sprinkle the TPE magic fairy dust that everything goes out the window when the slave becomes free. There's a difference to Me in mourning the loss and perpetually wallowing. It's not like all information that has ever entered a person's head about their own well being gets wiped away. Sooner or later, that lightbulb has to go on that if you want your life to be better, you have to take steps to make it better. quote: Of course it starts to happen after time passes. But it's not as simple as just a mere "Oh you miss your routine? Just stick to it after the relationship ends until you feel better." Somebody who has been actively expected to not rely on themselves to direct their choices and time cannot make themselves stick to a routine until AFTER they feel better and are starting to learn again to self-direct. You telling them that they should do exactly that which they cannot do, in order to relearn how to do it isn't good advice. It's reenforcing to their self-image on how bad they've become exactly at self-directing such things. Making a schedule for yourself again, self-managing your time, and self-enforcing internal expectations upon yourself again are the hardest things for a person coming out of a TPE. It's the things that they miss most about the power dynamic, and it's the things they're least capable of picking up again as they where before they entered the TPE. Telling them "well just do the thing you feel you're incapable of doing right now" doesn't work. It only reenforces their feeling of failure at being unable to do precisely that. Part of those routines include things like going to work, when to do your grocery shopping, and things of that nature. If the dog gets bathed on Saturdays, you can continue to do exactly that. These are things that have to get done whether there is somebody telling you to do them or not. What is one of the most recommended pieces of advice when people go into deep depression? Make yourself do the stuff that you don't feel like doing. It's the exact thing that stops you (general you) from being stuck. Accomplishing those things does lend to a person's self confidence. quote: Debilitating is EXACTLY the word I'd use. When you actively teach somebody to replace their reflex to decide for themselves, with having you decide for them instead, you stopping to decide for them is going to have debilitating effects. These effects will wear off over time. And they will be more or less sever depending on the length of the relationship. But any time you teach a person to rely on you to make decisions for them, and you then withdraw yourself and expect them to again make decisions for themselves, they're going to be debilitated by their lack of capability to easily make decisions for themselves, at least for a while. It may not be easy. It might be darn hard. It's part of the process that you are going to have to go through. I'm actually a firm believer in giving yourself time off at the end of a relationship. I see it from the perspective that the next person in your life deserves the best you that you can be. Ever go on a first date with a guy who did nothing but talk about his last relationship? That's a person who is not ready for their next relationship. They are still stuck in the last one and until they fix whatever it is that they have issues about, or work on their baggage, they may not be the best potential partner. quote: You didn't say overnight, granted. But it's been your position from the start of this thread that it's not the top's responsibility to make the transition period easier, if that's hard on them. Sorry, but that just isn't the case. If you enter in a TPE with somebody as the dominant, you take on the responsibility for the fact that you're debilitating the submissive's abilities to make choices for themselves, by actively training them to depend on your for guidance and direction. You are making something harder to do without your input, and you're doing it on purpose. That responsibility doesn't just fly out of the window because you decided things aren't working out. Granted, sometimes submissives make it impossible for you to give them the support they need, and sometimes giving them that support will actually make the transition harder on them, by prolonging their feeling that things may change back to the way they where, instead of them taking your help in moving on. I'm going to pause here to thank you for being one of the very few on this thread who recognizes this is also one of the possibilities. quote: But whether or not it's the right or the wrong thing in any specific case to aid the submissive in the transition, or subtract yourself completely from the doesn't really matter to the point I'm trying to make. And that point is that it's STILL your responsibility that they are having issues picking up their live and getting back in the habit of self-direction it. You are the one who has actively trained them to become less capable at doing exactly what they need to do to get over a break up. You are the one who has actively trained them to become more dependent on you for guidance and support. You are the one who has actively trained them to become less self-reliant when it comes to directing their own time, choices and goals. You are responsible for the trouble they are having adapting back to a life without you. How you think that responsibility is best served (either by helping them or subtracting yourself) doesn't matter. The fact still remains that ending a TPE doesn't end the scope of what issues in the submissive's life are problems they are having directly because of the choices you made. Pretending like that isn't the case is self-deciet. There are also situations where a person has to look at ALL of the responsibilities in their life, themselves included, about what is detrimental to everyone concerned. If a person has a family and transition brings a toxic element into the home, like any Mother, (Happy Mother's Day, btw) I'm going to say that the higher priority is going to be the children. That's the most extreme situation, of course, but there are also other situations that warrant it. A part of the conversation we were having with some of our guests before they left this morning was about various ways that folks act out when a dynamic ends and the bridge is completely burnt. I know you've been participating on the "What action, if any, should I take" thread. False allegations of rape or abuse aren't going to make transition a viable possibility. That's not the person, for your own safety from a legal standpoint, that you want to still be associated with your life. Then, it's not "transition". Why give a person more ammo for their false allegations so that they can add "stalking"? I realize I'm on the other side of the fence here but if the behaviors that led to the release in the first place are counter productive to all of those involved, the person has their hand in forfeiting transition. If you can't trust the prior slave to act in an ethical and honest manner, the best thing you can do is stay out of their affairs.

LadyPact -> RE: Loss of control (5/12/2013 2:41:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Even in that we were different. He never had to do more than ask, or express a want, and it was my desire to give, automatically. It came to a point that I didnt even have to think about him yelling, he never did. He didnt have too. His favorite expression with me "Dont think, just do". That became my life. Can you explain something to Me from a personal standpoint? You are talking about the dynamic that you ended, correct? I'm going to assume that at least a part of that was you not wanting HIM to be the person who was in control of your life. So, you ended the dynamic and moved out. To Me, that's a pretty big statement that you DON"T want his authority and control. How can you be upset that he didn't continue to provide it when you obviously didn't want it?

JstAnotherSub -> RE: Loss of control (5/12/2013 3:00:22 PM)
~FR~ I think a lot of what happens after a relationship has to do with who the person was before the relationship. If one was strong before, that strength will rise to the top again eventually. If one was not strong, I would imagine it would take them longer to recover and find their way on their own. After the break up of my almost 20 year marriage, I laid around and cried for a week, certain that I would not survive. The I realized I had a son to raise and I set a date to end the wallowing in my woes. On that date, I got up and started doing the things that I had to do, not because I wanted to, but because my survival and my sons depended on it. After the break up of a D/s relationship that lasted a year or so, I found myself lost. Other than work, every thought had been consumed by him. Then I remembered the divorce, and how long I gave my self to mourn then, and decided that something a year long could have a weekend. Monday I got up and put it behind me, not because I wanted to, but because I had to. I know neither of these were TPE, so it may not be relevant at all. I just know I have seen friends go through hard breakups, only to flounder until they found another man. Except for a couple of exceptions, this relationship to relationship thing has continued throughout their lives. I also don't want anyone to think I am saying someone is weaker if they do not recover as quickly. It is just that we are all different. The first D/s breakup was rough on me, but I managed to put it behind me. I think part of the reason I have not been able to give my self like that again is because I wonder if I could survive it again.

UllrsIshtar -> RE: Loss of control (5/12/2013 3:13:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact Mistress Military makes more choices for all members of a military family than I think you are giving credit for. Do you think we are living where we want to live? Are you assuming that we're just thrilled when we can't even live on the same continent? While I get that the military can have a lot of control over a person's life and choices, I don't agree that it's the same thing as the control exerted in a TPE dynamic. To me the difference all comes back in the differences between the mindsets of "choosing to defer to somebody or something else's authority" and "shaping your mind to reflexively relay on somebody else's will instead of your own". quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact Again, I'll defer to those who do instantaneous TPE. Maybe that's why I just don't see or understand the devastation that comes about because somebody stops making their own decisions from day one, spends a year under another person's authority, and within that year becomes so reliant that they can't function the way they did twelve months before that. I will absolutely grant that the debilitating effect of being conditioned to have somebody else choose for you only extends to the point where you've actually been conditioned to have somebody else choose for you. In other words, if a submissive is trained to never eat something without the directive of a dominant to do so, but is still allowed to pick out their own clothing (to use very simplistic examples) then it would be very possible for them to have trouble deciding on what to eat and when after the relationship ends -possible to the point of them getting is a situation that superficially resembles an eating disorder- but it would not be the case that they suddenly had a hard time getting dressed in the morning. quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact Part of those routines include things like going to work, when to do your grocery shopping, and things of that nature. If the dog gets bathed on Saturdays, you can continue to do exactly that. These are things that have to get done whether there is somebody telling you to do them or not. What is one of the most recommended pieces of advice when people go into deep depression? Make yourself do the stuff that you don't feel like doing. It's the exact thing that stops you (general you) from being stuck. Accomplishing those things does lend to a person's self confidence. All the things a submissive self-directed on during a TPE shouldn't really be too much of an issue afterwards. But if the only reason they washed the dog on Saturdays is because the dominant directed them to do such during the TPE, it's not unlikely that the capacity for self-motivating to do just that is severely lacking post TPE. When I got out of my TPE relationship, every choice that I had to make that had been made for me during the relationship felt completely overwhelming, to the point of me completely freezing up when I had to make those choices, and being incapable of pushing myself through it and getting it done anyway. It wasn't the same feeling as with a depression, it was an overwhelming inability to decide what it was that I wanted to do in that situation. I literally didn't know what I wanted, and because of that, was incapable of doing anything at all. On a large set of things that are habitual for most people, I had to relearn my own preferences all over again. Getting over it took a couple of months (I'd say about 3 months to get over the brunt of it, so that the "freeze up" didn't happen on a daily basis anymore, and about 2 years for it to get to the point where it never happens again). The way I did it -though this may not work for others- is by NOT following the choices that my master had made for me, and deliberately do something else... anything else, and test and retest and test again, until I found something that worked for me that was different from what he wanted me to do. I tried in the beginning to stick to the routine that he laid out for me to have some semblance of normality in my life, but found that I lacked the internal motivation to stick to a routine as strict as he would have been able to enforce on me. That then caused me to frequently and repeatedly "fail" to live up to his expectations, which in turn felt like I was being disobedient. Only, without a dominant there to punish me for my "disobedience" there wasn't a way for me to move on from the "failure" which resulted in me just getting deeper and deeper into a pit because I kept perpetually beat myself up for "failing to obey" without release, or a way to make myself move on from that feeling. quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact I realize I'm on the other side of the fence here but if the behaviors that led to the release in the first place are counter productive to all of those involved, the person has their hand in forfeiting transition. If you can't trust the prior slave to act in an ethical and honest manner, the best thing you can do is stay out of their affairs. Oh I totally understand that there are numerous situations in which it's absolutely impossible for the dominant to do "the best possible thing" or situations in which "the best possible thing" to do is to cut the submissive completely out of your life, sometimes for your own sake, sometimes for their sake, and sometimes for both party's sake. I'm not saying that any dominant who doesn't help their ex-submissive through the transition is by definition a lousy person. Sometimes not helping is the best thing you can do for all people involved. However, even if not helping is the best option, or the only option available, it doesn't make your responsibility for the situation being what it is any less -and that's not at all to imply that the submissive has no responsibilities in this at all. I think that a lot of people at the start of TPE relationship don't have a back up plan, on how to handle things when they go wrong. Internal enslavement can be a very dangerous thing. There have been very many threads on this board pointing out the dangerous when the goal of the relationship is to make one person completely and utterly dependent on another person. I think that understanding that danger, and the vulnerability it creates, and the responsibility that goes with it, both during as well as after the relationship ends is very important for a dominant to recognize, understand, and acknowledge... even if it leaves you in a situation where your only and/or best option isn't the most optimal one, it's still important to hold yourself accountable for the choices you've made along the way. That holding yourself accountable for the result of your own choices is important for your own sake... just like the submissive needs to be able to recognize their own responsibility for whatever choices they did also make.

UllrsIshtar -> RE: Loss of control (5/12/2013 3:29:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact Can you explain something to Me from a personal standpoint? You are talking about the dynamic that you ended, correct? I'm going to assume that at least a part of that was you not wanting HIM to be the person who was in control of your life. So, you ended the dynamic and moved out. To Me, that's a pretty big statement that you DON"T want his authority and control. How can you be upset that he didn't continue to provide it when you obviously didn't want it? Not tazzy obviously, but I hope you don't mind if I answer from my own perspective. I had a similar situation to tazzy (from the way I'm reading her anyways) where I was the one that decided that I no longer wanted his directive, and wanted to leave because of it. In my case it really only came down to one very specific order that I was unwilling to obey. After I left, I didn't still want his authority over me, because I was absolutely unwilling to accept the one condition to it that had caused me to decide to leave in the first place, but at the same time, without his authority over me, I was completely lost on what to do with myself. It wasn't so much that I missed his specific authority -though I did that too- it was more a case that I missed the overreaching concept of authority exerted over me. Not only that, but for a long time, I was unable to figure out exactly what I myself wanted to do in all the cases where he had been making the call for me. For example, my weight did a complete jojo after leaving him -something that had NEVER happened before, I've always had a stable low-healthy weight before him. But after I left, in the beginning I lost 20lbs in a very short period of time, because I was almost unable to eat anything at all. Without permission, I just wasn't hungry at all. I waited a long time for permission that obviously never came, and when I finally got myself to the point where I could again start eating without issue, I gained 40lbs because I couldn't stop anymore. Throughout all of that, I wasn't wanting him to take control again, because that wouldn't have fixed anything, it would have just prolonged the problem. What I wanted, and was waiting for, is for permission to start deciding for myself again... for somebody or something to tell me it was ok to do something other than what he wanted from me. Eventually, that permission to make my own choices again was something that had to come from inside of me, I don't really think he could have given it to me, even had he been willing to try. So I don't have any particular wisdom to share with you on what the best way is for the dominant to handle such a transition period. I understand that as some point, you just have to let go, and the submissive has to find a way to become internally motivated again... especially when they're making it impossible for you to direct them anymore, because they're rejected your authority to begin with. I just want you to understand that, even if they're the one that are making it impossible for your to continue your authority over them, the fact that you have had it in the past is going to leave a mark that is very different from the mark they have left on you.

littlewonder -> RE: Loss of control (5/12/2013 5:19:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady It's that "sense of purpose," and "being your own foundation," that I find to be pivotal. Of course a sub should be dedicated to their dominant, but should this one person be their sense of purpose? Should someone else ever be the foundation of making you a whole person? I think in all relationships, those things should exist, but if you have no sense of purpose tied to yourself, or believe you are nothing (no foundation) without that other person, things are not going to end well. Like LP said, you put things in a very eloquent way, and it shows that your growth and journey was all on you, not someone else. I find that some dynamics are exactly that way... the dom becomes the sense of purpose. While you may not embrace that dynamic, it doesnt make it wrong. Yeah, I admit my relationships have all been sorta my sense of purpose. When I was married, my husband was my sense of purpose. My life revolved around him. When he passed away, my daughter became my sense of purpose. then I met Master and both she and him were it and then when she became an adult, it became Master alone. I don't see it as being unhealthy. It just means I am very loyal and find that my life is much happier and I feel like I accomplish something in my life by being so dedicated. Does it cause emotional problems? Yup, it sure does. But for me, it's more than worth it. The amount of pain I feel is as strong as my love for that person. For me if I'm able to get over a person quickly then to me that means my love for that person was not as strong as I had thought. But after my husband died, my life took on whole new perspectives that seem radically different from most people. ETA: I would have been thrilled to only grieve for a month or even a year but I grieved for years upon years and having a child didn't change that. Instead my life became a mess. I could not concentrate on my daughter or life. I couldn't work, I couldn't even do something as simple as go grocery shopping or pay bills. If it wasn't for living near my sister, I have a feeling I would have had to give up my daughter and if it wasn't for my sister, I would have been homeless since I couldn't even pay my bills. I had no idea how to, not because I didn't know how to but because I completely lost my mind. I became a walking zombie for years. So this whole thing of being like this from a D/s or M/s relationship for me is utter crap. It didn't matter about the power. It had everything to do with the depth of love for him.

tazzygirl -> RE: Loss of control (5/12/2013 6:10:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Even in that we were different. He never had to do more than ask, or express a want, and it was my desire to give, automatically. It came to a point that I didnt even have to think about him yelling, he never did. He didnt have too. His favorite expression with me "Dont think, just do". That became my life. Can you explain something to Me from a personal standpoint? You are talking about the dynamic that you ended, correct? I'm going to assume that at least a part of that was you not wanting HIM to be the person who was in control of your life. So, you ended the dynamic and moved out. To Me, that's a pretty big statement that you DON"T want his authority and control. How can you be upset that he didn't continue to provide it when you obviously didn't want it? I had to have his permission to do so. He finally gave it. And why do you assume I am upset that he didnt continue to provide it?

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