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RE: Protecting yourself from false allegations - 5/26/2013 9:18:55 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		One final thought... I think many people put way to much stock into their reputation aka Ego!

I wish they put as much energy into awareness of their relationships and the people they involve themselves with. Not to mention their own self awareness.

< Message edited by KnightofMists -- 5/26/2013 9:21:44 PM >

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RE: Protecting yourself from false allegations - 5/27/2013 9:31:48 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

One final thought... I think many people put way to much stock into their reputation aka Ego!

I wish they put as much energy into awareness of their relationships and the people they involve themselves with. Not to mention their own self awareness.


Exactly this.


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My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: Protecting yourself from false allegations - 5/27/2013 2:34:02 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

I been thinking about this thread for sometime and the suggestions. Frankly, I would do none of it. I ask myself, where do I want to put my time and energy. Protecting myself from false allegations is very very low on the priorities. My reasoning is simple. If one wishes to believe false allegations then they clearly are not someone I want in my life and their opinion of me matters little as a result. Those that matter to me tend to be more intelligent in their opinions and judgements. These type of people would seek out truth instead of listening to the rumor mill.

Yes I have been a victim of false allegations... The most amusing is that Alandra is abused by me. The allegation as no affect on the relationships that matter to me and have kept people way of small character. So frankly I found the false allegation to be useful in minor way.


That's all fine and dandy if you don't have children, or have a career in the military (or your partner does), or you are in the teaching profession, etc. Get the picture?

I agree that having people in your life who would so readily believe bullshit against you aren't worth having in your life. However, there are people who aren't in your life, or who are by way of employer that can make your life hell.

I don't think anyone should really stress over future allegations, however, holding on to emails isn't really something that will eat up all your time, and is very easy to do.

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RE: Protecting yourself from false allegations - 5/27/2013 4:00:38 PM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline 		I'm actually very surprise and confuse about why the ladies feel DS should be taking his situation seriously?
According to his explanation, there was no sexual contact involved, technically, he really has nothing to worry about. On top of that, he has many other women who could have back him up on character if push comes to shove.

Now if they actually had a sexual play and someone was accusing him of rape then, he probably should be more worried. Or if multiple women were accusing him of that same thing that woman did, then something's really wrong.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 5/27/2013 4:03:42 PM >

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RE: Protecting yourself from false allegations - 5/27/2013 4:38:52 PM   
TheLilSquaw


Posts: 2340
Joined: 10/24/2012
From: Middle River, MD
Status: offline 		Greta,

I can think of some people who have been accused of rape who never had sexual contact with their accusers.






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RE: Protecting yourself from false allegations - 5/27/2013 4:48:53 PM   
Greta75


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Joined: 2/6/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheLilSquaw

Greta,

I can think of some people who have been accused of rape who never had sexual contact with their accusers.


In DS case, his accusation happen in a public munch, with loads of people.
Kinda hard to prove rape as well.
If it comes to a trial, she will have to state time, whereabouts this rape occur, and all he needed was to prove either at that time he was in a crowded roomful of people or that his not where she said he was.

I agree any woman can cry rape and molest, it happens alot in my country in vanilla clubs, and the men usually settle out of court to prevent the whole court ordeal. But in my country, even if you touch a woman's shoulder, it's molest, and the guy has committed a crime. Which I kinda like, cuz there should be no physical contact unless given approval, period.
In DS case..., I think he has a strong defense situation, that's why he don't have to worry.


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Profile   Post #: 126
RE: Protecting yourself from false allegations - 5/27/2013 4:55:16 PM   
TheLilSquaw


Posts: 2340
Joined: 10/24/2012
From: Middle River, MD
Status: offline 		Just because there may not be a "legal" case doesn't mean someone couldn't have issues due to allegation. Most jobs are fire at will and many jobs these days have moral clauses, children and feel the back lash, housing can be in jeopardy, ect. Yes, simply from an accusation.

No one is untouchable.

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Profile   Post #: 127
RE: Protecting yourself from false allegations - 5/27/2013 5:02:15 PM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline 		But what is the real issue?
That his not panicking?
What's wrong with not panicking and simply not getting into excess worry frenzy when there is nothing to worry about it, simply dealing with situations calmly IF it unfolds. In his case, it never unfolded, there was nothing to worry about.

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RE: Protecting yourself from false allegations - 5/27/2013 5:39:05 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

That's all fine and dandy if you don't have children, or have a career in the military (or your partner does), or you are in the teaching profession, etc. Get the picture?

I agree that having people in your life who would so readily believe bullshit against you aren't worth having in your life. However, there are people who aren't in your life, or who are by way of employer that can make your life hell.

I don't think anyone should really stress over future allegations, however, holding on to emails isn't really something that will eat up all your time, and is very easy to do.



Have children... All three of us have careers that our reputation is an important part of what we do. This whole thread is nothing but fear mongering.... Yeah.. False allegations can be hell. But sometimes being smart how you associate with stops it more than keeping a few stupid emails. I guess some what to get in the mud... I don't.

Oh... Should I note that we live in a small town... And there is false shit being spread... But it does affect us... .. I guess I should note I just recently retired from my given career about two weeks ago. Most everyone that worked for me including my boss knew much of my lifestyle. False shit is just that false shit. If you play in the mud you get dirty. But if that is not your way... Regardless of people throwing t at you ones character will shine and he mud washes off in the eyes of those that matter.



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An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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Profile   Post #: 129
RE: Protecting yourself from false allegations - 5/27/2013 6:27:07 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		The thing is, DS still associates with those who are spreading lies and rumors.


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Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

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RE: Protecting yourself from false allegations - 5/27/2013 7:17:24 PM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline 		This whole thing really bring back memories for me.
I was developing a relationship with this dom. We seem to become very close friends, chatted alot, hang out alot, ya know, dated like a vanilla couple, did alot of things together without sex or play for like 9 months, before I finally decided to have sex with him. Gosh he was patient and seriously, I thought he was a genuine person , he always behaved like a perfect gentlemen, never sleazy or touchy feelly, always respectful. And even that first night was vanilla sex. After I felt really safe and secure with him, we decided to start with bondage and whipping in the next meet.

But he told me he has a friend overseas who was staying over at his place. But that friend will be out all night and won't be back till morning, so it would be fine.

Last minute, I had to cancel on him. Anyway, my x-dom heard rumours about this guy bragging to other doms in their community about how he got everything set up and when I'm tied up, his gonna have his friend come in and bang me. Of course he told me to warn me about this guy.

I confronted him about it, and he just said, "I told you I had another friend staying with me, I thought you got my hint and consented." After that, he blackmailed me constantly, telling him I owe him that night I didn't turn up. I've always wondered if he genuinely thought I consented.

His main kink was sadism. I was damn lucky that day as he did this on purpose as I have always told him, I would never do threesomes ever, or be involve in any kind of public plays.

Sometimes, things are just freakin grey. That's what's complicated about being into such things. Sometimes doms are victims, sometimes subs are victims. And most of the time, things still happen even when you think you have taken all the precautions.

And yes I met him on collarme.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 5/27/2013 7:36:06 PM >

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RE: Protecting yourself from false allegations - 5/27/2013 7:44:56 PM   
SeverinVim


Posts: 69
Joined: 9/6/2011
Status: offline 		Perhaps I am too cynical, but whenever I hear of someone accusing someone else online of "doing something" or "being a certain way," I have to do everything in my power to restrain myself from rolling my eyes. I hate to sound cliché, but there are two sides to every story.

Do you know how many women have "wronged me" online? A lot. I bet if you were to ask them, though, a great many probably wouldn't even remember interacting with me at all!

I bet that some women online would argue that I have "wronged" them as well. Or, at the very least, that I "offended" them online or that I "deceived" them somehow. Why would they feel that way? Perhaps the same reason that I feel as though I was wronged by women online: perception is subjective! And hindsight is always 20/20 as well...

For instance, how many times do you find yourself looking back on a failed relationship and remarking, "you know what, it was just as much my fault as it was the other person's fault that the relationship didn't work out..." Not so often, right? It's almost always entirely the other person's fault. Sheer coincidence? Hardly.

And here's something else you probably won't find every day online:

I admit to having deceived people online, sometime knowingly, sometimes unknowingly. Am I a bad person for having done so? Maybe. On the other hand, maybe I'm just more honest than people who troll random strangers every day online without giving it a second thought. Honestly, if being on the internet is anything more than a "passing phase" to you, it's likely that you, too, have deceived people online (sometimes knowingly, sometimes unknowingly).

The reality of human interaction online is enough to make good people feel uncomfortable with themselves.




< Message edited by SeverinVim -- 5/27/2013 7:51:55 PM >

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RE: Protecting yourself from false allegations - 5/27/2013 8:07:25 PM   
Greta75


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Joined: 2/6/2011
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quote:

I admit to having deceived people online, sometime knowingly, sometimes unknowingly. On the other hand, maybe I'm just more honest than people who troll random strangers every day online without giving it a second thought.


Seriously....., I don't get this. If you are sincere in establishing genuine connections, there is no reason to pat yourself on the back for "deceiving" others just because there are trolls online.
Trolls aren't the ones you want establishing connections with, so what they do shouldn't matter or have an effect on your actions. Not sure if you are a dom/sub/whatever, as I haven't looked at your profile, but in this lifestyle, being honorable is a very important quality as trust is utmost important.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 5/27/2013 8:10:37 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 133
RE: Protecting yourself from false allegations - 5/27/2013 8:11:47 PM   
SeverinVim


Posts: 69
Joined: 9/6/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

I admit to having deceived people online, sometime knowingly, sometimes unknowingly. On the other hand, maybe I'm just more honest than people who troll random strangers every day online without giving it a second thought.


Seriously....., I don't get this. If you are sincere in establishing genuine connections, there is no reason to pat yourself on the back for "deceiving" others just because there are trolls online.
Trolls aren't the ones you want establishing connections with, so what they do shouldn't matter or have an effect on your actions. Not sure if you are a dom/sub/whatever, as I haven't looked at your profile, but if you are a dom, being honorable is a very important quality.

I am certainly not patting myself on the back. Have I ever been "bad" online in the ....15 years that I've been online? Sure. Am I proud of it? No, I'm not.

Have you ever been bad online, though? I would argue that most people have.

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RE: Protecting yourself from false allegations - 5/27/2013 8:18:05 PM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
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quote:


Have you ever been bad online, though? I would argue that most people have.

Define bad online? Have I got into an argument with someone? Yes I have when someone's being nasty to me.
But in terms of putting forward other than a genuine side of me, no I have not, as I am seeking serious relationships and deep emotional connections.
I'm a deep conversationalist too, so trolls will find it boring to bother me anyway. As my reaction would be boring.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 5/27/2013 8:19:15 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 135
RE: Protecting yourself from false allegations - 5/27/2013 8:21:42 PM   
SeverinVim


Posts: 69
Joined: 9/6/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:


Have you ever been bad online, though? I would argue that most people have.

Define bad online? Have I got into an argument with someone? Yes I have when someone's being nasty to me.
But in terms of putting forward other than a genuine side of me, no I have not, as I am seeking serious relationships and deep emotional connections.
I'm a deep conversationalist too, so trolls will find it boring to bother me anyway. As my reaction would be boring.

But Greta, that's my whole point. Don't you see? Your "getting into an argument with someone online" could be another person's "Greta's being bad." It's all about perception. In fact, I would be frankly shocked if no man has EVER FELT as though he was deceived by you online.

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RE: Protecting yourself from false allegations - 5/27/2013 8:28:02 PM   
Greta75


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Joined: 2/6/2011
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quote:


But Greta, that's my whole point. Don't you see? Your "getting into an argument with someone online" could be another person's "Greta's being bad." It's all about perception. In fact, I would be frankly shocked if no man has EVER FELT as though he was deceived by you online.

I don't know, what could they feel deceived about? Even in my profile, all my limits are stated upfront in black and white. And all the things I said I love, I LOVE and revel in them. I try to give an accurate view of me, because I want to attract the right man who is looking exactly for someone like me.

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RE: Protecting yourself from false allegations - 5/27/2013 11:50:04 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

I'm actually very surprise and confuse about why the ladies feel DS should be taking his situation seriously?
According to his explanation, there was no sexual contact involved, technically, he really has nothing to worry about. On top of that, he has many other women who could have back him up on character if push comes to shove.

Now if they actually had a sexual play and someone was accusing him of rape then, he probably should be more worried. Or if multiple women were accusing him of that same thing that woman did, then something's really wrong.


Greta, I mean no offense, but there does seem to be a bit of a language barrier here, so I will try to explain it in simpler terms. Not to insult your intelligence, but because you seem to have not really understood my point.

Regardless of the fact that DS does not play sexually with others, he is accused of crossing a line. Even without sex, there are activities that require consent, this I know you are aware of from your story about the guy with the friend.

So, my point is that while he is busy defending himself, saying he did nothing wrong (which may or may not be the case), he has done several things that are really not admirable.

1. He continually talks about how his reputation is too well respected for anyone to believe anything someone says. Well, ther are plenty who have excellent reputations that DO do things without consent, AND they tend to use that reputation as a way to scare their victim into silence.

2. While he doesn't believe he did something wrong, that doesn't mean he is correct. In this case, he was accused of pressuring someone to play with him. Now DS may not see his behavior as pressuring someone, but if that someone feels pressured, everyone, and most especially someone who really takes pride (or at least mentions it a hell of a lot) in being a mentor needs to acknowledge the other person's feelings.

In other words, while for DS, it may not have been crossing a line, what matters is that the other person felt a boundary was crossed. The appropriate response to that is to apologize to the person and tell them you meant no harm or disrespect. Because I really don't think that DS did intentionally cross a line, however, having read his texts for quite a few years, I have zero problem believing that him trying to convince someone to play could be viewed as pressuring them, while DS would view it as trying to help that person overcome their fear and reluctance.

Keep in mind that DS has NO idea who made the complaint. However, again, going and asking all those you have played with recently is really NOT the appropriate way to approach it. It also belies his cavalier attitude and blustering about his reputation and attorney girlfriend, because if he really believed those things were enough to keep him safe, he wouldn't feel a need to ask.

But more importantly, while the line he is accused of crossing is minor, I see his asking these women if they made the complaint to be adding "insult to injury." He allegedly already made a woman uncomfortable enough to make a complaint. Is it really necessary to seek the person out and ask them if they made the complaint? Were I the one who made the complaint, and he came asking, I would certainly not say, "oh yea, that was me." (ok, I would say that but I'm a bit unique in that regard). No, the woman is to likely feel further threatened and afraid of what this man with the "stellar reputation" and lawyer girlfriend was going to do to me next. NOT appropriate behavior. If he wanted to know and actually cared that he did something that made another person feel threatened, he would have approached the DM, explained that he would like to apologize and ask that a face to face be arranged.

Finally, accusations do not come down to what will stick legally and what won't. As LS pointed out, it is the legal aspect that is in issue in this discussion, but rather the community viewpoint.

Ishtar gave a really great explanation of how easy it would be to ruin even a stellar reputation, that involved no legal consequence. Please go read it and see if it helps you understand.

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RE: Protecting yourself from false allegations - 5/27/2013 11:59:34 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline 		I think it is a wonderful thing that you could be so open about your life to your employer. Not everyone has that option, I'm sure you realize that.

While you are certainly entitled to your opinion, I have seen people who were very "adult" and behaved in all the *right* ways, and actually were not people who would sling mud or roll in mud. But when that split came, something happened. Over 20 years, I have seen it happen quite frequently as a matter of fact.

Not everyone can have an amicable split. It would be nice, and believe me, part of my job was to try to stop the mud slinging. But it doesn't always happen. It doesn't mean the person doing it is suspect, or is even something the other person missed "clues" about. People are much more complex than that.

Keep in mind, I think I have an excellent reputation in my local community, and a half-way decent one here. However, nothing I have ever said or did in either place has ever, EVER had to do with how it would affect my reputation. I am one of those people who has never given a shit what people thought. And when I say never, I mean never. I have memories of going against the grain as early as second grade, so...

Because what we do agree on is that the people who matter won't care what others say, and the people who listen to what others say don't matter.

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Profile   Post #: 139
RE: Protecting yourself from false allegations - 5/28/2013 1:09:00 AM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
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quote:

In other words, while for DS, it may not have been crossing a line, what matters is that the other person felt a boundary was crossed. The appropriate response to that is to apologize to the person and tell them you meant no harm or disrespect. Because I really don't think that DS did intentionally cross a line, however, having read his texts for quite a few years, I have zero problem believing that him trying to convince someone to play could be viewed as pressuring them, while DS would view it as trying to help that person overcome their fear and reluctance.

Keep in mind that DS has NO idea who made the complaint. However, again, going and asking all those you have played with recently is really NOT the appropriate way to approach it. It also belies his cavalier attitude and blustering about his reputation and attorney girlfriend, because if he really believed those things were enough to keep him safe, he wouldn't feel a need to ask.


Okay, I must have not gotten that.
I thought he has already cleared things up with the girl who made the complaint and he knows who it is. And that's why his not worried, problem sorted. Didn't know she's still out there and he has no idea who it is. If that's the case, I agree it's safer to find out who this chick is, and clear her misunderstanding incase she gets more malicious, because it's not good to let a girl keep thinking that you were intentionally being derogatory towards her. Women can be vicious if they want to be.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 5/28/2013 1:13:30 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 140
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