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Sub secretly chatting with other Domme - 5/26/2013 12:27:04 PM

SweetCrush

Posts: 1
Joined: 7/29/2012
Status: offline

Ok so after a few weeks of texts and phone calls met up with a sub who I thought had potential that suited me. During dinner he offers up that he knows a Domme in HI(we are in MD)only via online contact, and though they have never scened and she is just a friend, he has kept this from me. Additionally he has been asking her advice on how to act with me. I found this revolting.

It is almost like having another Domme directing by proxy, in my opinion. It is one thing to ask questions about generalized lifestyle issues. However, actively seeking guidance and behavior directives without permission seems very disrespectful. I would never presume to instruct a sub on how to treat their Mistress, and I don't appreciate the unwarranted interference. He isn't a newbie. Each and every one of us is unique.

He was sharing our intimate private conversations with a virtual stranger. Asking her opinions on these mostly Vanilla conversations. Asking her to judge my reactions to things he said and give her advice on how he should react. Ok so she can tell him what she would like and how she would want and expect him to behave. That doesn't help me at all. She doesn't know me. But it does explain why he was such an a$$ and idiot at times that seemed utterly out of character.

So how do you deal with a sub clinging to other dommes and downplaying it? Should a Domme interfere with another D/s? Apparantly she asks him how to treat her sub as well when she can't figure him out. I am disgusted by them both honestly. The whole thing is sordid and disrespectful because it was/is done behind my back.

Post #: 1

RE: Sub secretly chatting with other Domme - 5/26/2013 12:37:34 PM

AthenaSurrenders

Posts: 3582
Joined: 3/15/2012
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If you are disgusted and find it sordid and disrespectful, it's not really important what anyone else thinks - clearly trust is broken and any potential relationship is over.

What I would say is that from my point of view, you're overreacting. From the information here, it sounds like he had a platonic online friend that he asked for dating advice. It just so happens that she was dominant. I've certainly told friends about people I'm interested in. It doesn't sound clingy, and if her friend was coming to her for advice it's not 'unwarranted interference'.

Now I can understand you thinking it's stupid to take advice on how to act, instead of just being himself (since, if you fell for the act he was putting on you still might not like the real him) but it doesn't sound especially sordid.

Especially since until this meeting, you were only talking by phone too - she was no more a stranger than you were. He told you about it on the first meeting - sounds pretty honest to me. Unless he explicitly told you 'no, I am not speaking to any other female dominants in any way' it doesn't seem like he lied to you. Personally, I wouldn't consider a few weeks of texts and calls to BE a relationship, and hence I wouldn't say she was interfering in a D/s relationship. Perhaps we have different definitions of the word, but I always thought 'Mistress' implied a level of commitment beyond 'first date'.

But ultimately, you're mad at him, this is very early in the relationship and so perhaps not worth fighting for. I would have to question what about this makes you so distressed? Are you going to forbid any potential future sub from speaking to dommes at all?

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(in reply to SweetCrush)

Post #: 2

RE: Sub secretly chatting with other Domme - 5/26/2013 12:46:31 PM

TheLilSquaw

Posts: 2340
Joined: 10/24/2012
From: Middle River, MD
Status: offline

OP,

If she wasn't a domme but simply a female friend would you be disgusted and find it sorted?
Personally, it sounds as if they are "friends" and he is seeking advice from her as such and vice versa. Nothing sorted or disgusting about that to me.

Add in the fact that he told you about the fact that he was friends with this woman (domme) at your 1st meeting says he isn't hiding their friendship or that he seeks her guidance.

Prior to meeting did you make it known that not speaking to or being friends with other dommes was of your expectations?

Did he agree to that expectation?

If the answer to either of those questions is no, then the issue is with how YOU communicate your expectations not with him or her.

< Message edited by TheLilSquaw -- 5/26/2013 12:48:54 PM >

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(in reply to SweetCrush)

Post #: 3

RE: Sub secretly chatting with other Domme - 5/26/2013 12:50:52 PM

DarkSteven

Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline

If she is only a friend, what's the issue? He's not required to disclose all his friendships to you.

He can seek advice all he wants. IF he was YOUR sub, it would be wrong. But he's not your sub if this was your first meeting.

Sharing private conversations IS wrong if it was intimate. But if he was just telling a friend that he was chatting with a local Domme and mentioned vanilla stuff about you, he's done something that I would personally find inoffensive, although others might feel differently.

I'd suggest taking a day and calming down before doing or saying anything. I feel funny giving you advice though, because that's what you're angry at him for...

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Post #: 4

RE: Sub secretly chatting with other Domme - 5/26/2013 12:59:49 PM

Rawni

Posts: 1175
Status: offline

Great post Athena.

SweetCrush, your profile must be hidden, maybe to protect yourself in this situation... so I couldn't find your age. That could play into things and is why I wanted to check. I can understand what you may be feeling as I have been there, once upon a time and while I understand that people can be friends and friends talk... there can be things that make it inappropriate considering the situation/agreements, etc. You can feel slighted, left in the dark, examined, judged and part of a dynamic you didn't agree to.

However, you have made this more about him because of what he has done, than about you. We all need a friend and it is good to get advice or feedback from friends, but anyone asking for directives on how to 'act' with someone, that claims to be experienced, is questionable in my view and from what I experienced. We chose the people we want to share ourselves with and this person has taken you out of maybe a comfort/privacy zone and shared you with another. You have no voice other than what he gives you when sharing with her.

Personally, I love my guys to have friends, but I also love my privacy and no way, in this lifetime am I willing to be watched over by another dominant that may not have my best interest in mind and may in fact have their own interest in mind. No way do I want someone sharing me with another, someone unknown to me, that has the ability to influence someone I may be starting some dynamics with. You may feel invaded upon and I can see how that would feel.

Still... this is about you. Examine how you feel without the blame. Are you a jealous person? Do you feel threatened? Are there other things about him that are nagging in the back of your mind that make this worse? Have you been cheated on? Are you afraid of accountability or an accountability to someone by way of him that is offensive? Explore how you feel. Once you understand that a bit, you can still think he was wrong as I am sure we don't have the whole story, but this starts with you.

Personally, I would fire the dude because he shared personal things about my personal life with someone I didn't know at a time when we need to be building trust. We need to feel safe too. I don't open my private life or relationships to the public or even certain people, unless I do it. I do believe a man about my age, should be able to keep his own counsel unless something is wrong. If he must get counsel, I would want to know why and what motivated that... before he took it to someone else.

Partners or those we are spending time with pursuing something, can have an ill effect upon us if things go dramatic and they can simply by having someone with personal information, sharing it and it being broadcast in a twisted light. I don't take that lightly. I can fuck it up... all good... someone else fucking my life up, is another story.

< Message edited by Rawni -- 5/26/2013 1:01:38 PM >

(in reply to AthenaSurrenders)

Post #: 5

RE: Sub secretly chatting with other Domme - 5/26/2013 1:27:44 PM

BlkTallFullfig

Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
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I would say that the situation is not so sordid, and problematic given that you two have only recently met, and are getting to know one another. Continue to talk with this sub, and get a feel for his behavior as a human being in general. I don't mind men having friends of any gender, as long as the friendship is not convoluted, and secretive. I don't tend to respect men who volunteer intimate details of his past or present relationships, unless I ask something specific to the conversation or experience.

If he is asking her how he should behave with you, you should tell him, that you'd prefer he be himself, or ask you when he needs directions in "YOUR/yours and his" relationship. Asking her to judge your thoughts/actions/reactions is a little insecure, and jerky. Why can't he judge for himself? If he is that weak, and needs literal step by step instructions to develop a relationship, do you really want him?
I'd say he's crossed some boundaries, but give him the benefit of the doubt, since we will presume he didn't know your boundaries prior to now. Now that he does know, continue your communications, and see where it leads. M

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(in reply to SweetCrush)

Post #: 6

RE: Sub secretly chatting with other Domme - 5/26/2013 1:53:22 PM

SomethingCatchy

Posts: 796
Joined: 7/29/2008
Status: offline

I've got a friend who constantly sought my advice on how to treat his girlfriend. He didn't give me details of their sex life but he did want my input since I have female equipment and I have sex with men. I told him generalized things, pointed him to videos for how-to interaction, shared articles and even suggested a few books. We also talked about what he should do on dates, what kind of gifts women enjoy, how he should treat her when they were thinking of living together.

Men enjoy having a friend who will help them figure women out no matter their age. Just because he's 50 doesn't mean he's lived long enough to finally understand why women love vampire movies, My Little Pony, and have to have 5 pairs of shoes in slightly different shades of red when brown and black work just fine for him. If that disgusts you then there are men out there who don't seek advice about women. I've met a few of them and frankly they're dicks with an ego the size of China and they can never be wrong without having a hissy fit and getting defensive.

I also think you're being clingy. You met this guy once and you're already angry at him for allowing someone to control the relationship. What relationship? In the very first paragraph you say you THINK this guy could work out, not that he is or that you two are trying it on for size. I think this is irrational behavior from you. If I met someone once and then she got angry at me for having a friend I talk to about her I'd tell her to make herself comfortable in someone else's life.

Now if you two have done adult stuff over the phone and he's looked you in the eye and told you 'I told her everything. Even the part where I imagined sticking my thumb into a lime and doing the macarena while you did me up the butt with a 50 inch cock' then yes. I feel that justifies disgust and anger! Everyone knows you put the lime in the coconut... not defile it with human appendages.

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Post #: 7

RE: Sub secretly chatting with other Domme - 5/26/2013 1:55:52 PM

MissToYouRedux

Posts: 867
Joined: 1/23/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rawni

Personally, I love my guys to have friends, but I also love my privacy and no way, in this lifetime am I willing to be watched over by another dominant that may not have my best interest in mind and may in fact have their own interest in mind. No way do I want someone sharing me with another, someone unknown to me, that has the ability to influence someone I may be starting some dynamics with. You may feel invaded upon and I can see how that would feel.

Knowing this says much more about *me* and my issues, I still have to agree with it.

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(in reply to Rawni)

Post #: 8

RE: Sub secretly chatting with other Domme - 5/26/2013 2:11:34 PM

Charles6682

Posts: 1820
Joined: 10/1/2007
From: Saint Pete,FL
Status: offline

This would be like as if I had a girlfriend now,and I was sending text messages to my ex-girlfriends,to see how I can have a better "date".Seems pretty lame to me.I don't think there's anything wrong with being friend's with ex's,but I certainly wouldn't be seeking their advice on how I can have a good date with another girl.

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(in reply to MissToYouRedux)

Post #: 9

RE: Sub secretly chatting with other Domme - 5/26/2013 2:24:35 PM

angelikaJ

Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline

It was only done behind your back if he promised you that he would never talk to another domme while the 2 of you are figuring things out.

His having friends should be okay.
What would not fly in my relationship is my having serious discussions regarding my relationship before I spoke with Him.
However, I don't really see the 2 of you as having a relationship.

But I would be interested in finding out why she was more approachable than you are.

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(in reply to SweetCrush)

Post #: 10

RE: Sub secretly chatting with other Domme - 5/26/2013 3:01:08 PM

ChatteParfaitt

Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline

That the man called himself submissive on the CM drop box does not make him YOUR sub. He is under no obligation to tell you about everyone he talks to, and last I heard even subs are allowed to have friends.

The other domme didn't 'direct by proxy' she gave him advice as a FRIEND.

This guy sounds honest and upfront, and you went all insecure berserker on him. I seriously suggest some therapy before thinking you are capable of taking charge of another.

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Post #: 11

RE: Sub secretly chatting with other Domme - 5/26/2013 3:09:33 PM

CynthiaWVirginia

Posts: 1915
Joined: 2/28/2010
From: West Virginia, USA
Status: offline

When my slave was new here, yes, he had a Domme friend who helped show him the ropes. He checked in with her about what not to do, now to approach Dommes, etc., because he was afraid of making an ass of himself. She also advised him on how to deal with scammers and taught him how to recognize common scams. Also, keep in mind that most people coming to this site try out just the chatrooms and mailroom/profiles area first, and...things are different in the chatrooms than they are in r/t or on the boards.

I expected him to have (or to make) friends and am not one to expect someone to show loyalty to me by not being allowed to talk with other Dominants. However, my boy did come to me with bad habits, among them...taking his problems/issues to friends first before (or instead of) coming to me with them. When he did this with his Domme friend (yes, I told him when I wanted to read their letters because of something he said) and it offended me, I told him no more letters to her without my having vetted them first. I wasn't interested in what she wrote to him, and I didn't want to hear any more letters from someone who was basically saying "poor baby" and "this is how to handle your Mistress". This lasted for about two months. It was sometimes like reading journal entries, giving him a way to tell me things he didn't know how to come straight out and say. When he was new there were many misunderstandings from his having watched too much BDSM porn, and...from a brief, prior relationship. My action was a disciplinary one, because I owned him and couldn't allow him to continue this offensive behavior, and he needed time to learn what I found offensive and why.

When he is emotionally off balance, and it can be from anything, not just when he is going through subdrop (and for the first year he had some evil subdrop when I had to go back home), logic and truth is butchered and feelings become facts. What really pissed me off is when I saw in one of his letters that he was thanking God that he had her to turn to when he was upset, because I...wouldn't talk with him and told him to shut up. Hello...everyone knows I talk things to death! When he calmed down, he could see that he was talking about his ex-Mistress and not me. (If he's going to bitch and whine about me it had better be the factual truth.)

Yes, I made him tell her why I was screening his mail.

He's stable enough, now. Not on some wild rollercoaster ride like that first year when I was dealing with a lot of his PTSD from past relationships. If someone's going to be giving him advice, I want him to first bring the issue to me and THEN I'm okay with him taking a poll with others. As long as he isn't misrepresenting something.

In the beginning, people can have bad habits that we need to change. Sometimes habit can blind them to how obnoxious it really is, degrading and humiliating even. I work on my own issues, with the help of family and friends occasionally holding up a mirror. I also work on my submissive's bad habits, teaching him how I want to be treated as well as served...and I consider this part of his "training".

OP, do you expect a newbie to be perfect? To have no friends to turn to? To never screw up? Forgiveness and training...have worked for me; if I had cut him loose the first time he offended me...I would have missed out on those other hundred or so times that followed, lol, and I would have missed out on owning one hell of a good slave.

(in reply to SweetCrush)

Post #: 12

RE: Sub secretly chatting with other Domme - 5/26/2013 3:22:57 PM

lizi

Posts: 4673
Joined: 2/1/2009
Status: offline

I'm going to take a slightly different tack because the nature of the information he was sharing seemed private to you- yes, sharing conversations with another unknown person does seem slightly creepy, to me. Then if he was targeting the best way to get you attached to him, errr, yeah, I'd find that disturbing as well. I'd find it somewhat frightening if a gentleman I didn't meet yet, had regular conversations about me with another in order that he might insinuate himself into my good graces. Kind of Cyrano de Bergerac and all. I wouldn't appreciate the third person being a part of a budding relationship, I'd wonder if the man I was interested in could stand on his own two feet, and if he'd interest me in the end, or if he was putting forth much of the other person's personality instead?

I honestly have no idea though what the guy was doing since all I have to go on is your OP. Maybe you asked him upfront if he had any other Domme friends, and he said no. Which would be a lie, and that would bother me. Maybe it pisses you off that he was approaching you like a generic Domme to woo and not an individual, I don't know.

As far as a sub clinging to others...what's his motivation? Are they friends? Then back off. If he's using the relationship with her in a manner that you don't agree with, give him a chance to explain himself, and if you buy it then keep things going, if not, break it off. As far as you feeling that she is interfering...what does it matter? You don't know her, step away from the unnecessary drama.

(in reply to SweetCrush)

Post #: 13

RE: Sub secretly chatting with other Domme - 5/26/2013 3:47:27 PM

NiceButMeanGirl

Posts: 2756
Joined: 11/4/2011
From: Bellingham, WA U.S.A.
Status: offline

Okay, I can certainly understand why you wouldn't want someone else interfering with your dynamic. Now I realize I may come off as harsh here, and I don't mean to, but that being said:

1. If this was your first face-to-face meeting, he really wasn't your sub yet, so it's not like he was being unfaithful to you with that other Domme. Just because someone checks off the "submissive" designation on his profile it doesn't mean he's your submissive.

2. He said she is just a friend so, in otherwords, if she didn't happen to be another Domme, would you feel the same way? I don't know about you, but I want my sub(s) to have friends.

3. Did you (a)tell him you didn't want him talking to other Dommes AND (b)did he agree to that restriction? Even if (a) was the case, if (b) wasn't the case, he didn't break any agreed-upon rules because they weren't agreed upon. Besides, if he didn't belong to you yet(refer to #1), why are you making rules for him?

4. He told you at your very first face-to-face meeting, so it looks like he was being honest with you and not hiding anything from you.

5. You said yourself they were "mostly Vanilla conversations," so were they "intimate private conversations" or not?

6. Since this was your own first face-to-face meeting with him, you were practically just as much of a "virtual stranger" to him as she is. It sounds like you were both in the checking-each-other-out stage and not the ownership stage.

7. If a sub and I are just checking each other out, I have no problem whatsoever with him talking to other Dommes. On the other hand.....

8. No, a Domme should not interfere with someone else's established D/s dynamic, but it sounds like you two didn't have a dynamic yet at this point.

9. If you're really that disgusted by the whole sordid and disrespectful thing, why are you still around him?

I guess I'm just not getting this. You guys are still just checking each other out and you act like there's already a dynamic. Or, if that's not the case, I could be all wrong about this.

NBMG

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Post #: 14

RE: Sub secretly chatting with other Domme - 5/26/2013 4:03:57 PM

Charles6682

Posts: 1820
Joined: 10/1/2007
From: Saint Pete,FL
Status: offline

I've talked to Dommes online.1 Domme I've been talking to for years.Theres nothing there except a good conversation.No,I don't think there is anything wrong with talking to people.That said,I wouldn't seek that persons advice on how I can have a better "date" with someone else.General guidelines isn't a bad idea though.But nothing personal.

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(in reply to lizi)

Post #: 15

RE: Sub secretly chatting with other Domme - 5/26/2013 4:33:59 PM

SomethingCatchy

Posts: 796
Joined: 7/29/2008
Status: offline

quote:

This would be like as if I had a girlfriend now,and I was sending text messages to my ex-girlfriends,to see how I can have a better "date".Seems pretty lame to me

Except that the OP says this woman is this man's friend. Not his ex girlfriend. Believe it or not men and women can be platonic friends, regardless of orientation. The fact that this man's female friend is dominant is irrelevant to the situation unless the man IS lying and keeping secrets and the OP didn't add the facts to show us he is.

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Everyone is gay for Joseph Gordon-Levitt.

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Post #: 16

RE: Sub secretly chatting with other Domme - 5/26/2013 4:43:40 PM

OsideGirl

Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetCrush

Ok so after a few weeks of texts and phone calls met up with a sub who I thought had potential that suited me.

That right there tells me that he isn't your submissive. So, all of this is moot. You're acting like you're his Dominant when you're not.

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(in reply to SweetCrush)

Post #: 17

RE: Sub secretly chatting with other Domme - 5/26/2013 4:58:44 PM

Politesub53

Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

That the man called himself submissive on the CM drop box does not make him YOUR sub. He is under no obligation to tell you about everyone he talks to, and last I heard even subs are allowed to have friends.

The other domme didn't 'direct by proxy' she gave him advice as a FRIEND.

This guy sounds honest and upfront, and you went all insecure berserker on him. I seriously suggest some therapy before thinking you are capable of taking charge of another.

While I agree with part of this, I can understand anyone with a potential partner going beserk about being kept in the dark. Surely it is healthier to disclose friendships with ex`s at the start of a relationship, as a trust issue more than anything. Something along the lines I am in a platonic relationshi[p with an ex, so I hope you can understand and cope with that ?

(in reply to ChatteParfaitt)

Post #: 18

RE: Sub secretly chatting with other Domme - 5/26/2013 5:03:36 PM

OsideGirl

Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

While I agree with part of this, I can understand anyone with a potential partner going beserk about being kept in the dark. Surely it is healthier to disclose friendships with ex`s at the start of a relationship, as a trust issue more than anything. Something along the lines I am in a platonic relationshi[p with an ex, so I hope you can understand and cope with that ?

He disclosed it at their first meeting. Seems to me that is before the start of a relationship.

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Post #: 19

RE: Sub secretly chatting with other Domme - 5/26/2013 5:17:22 PM

AthenaSurrenders

Posts: 3582
Joined: 3/15/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

While I agree with part of this, I can understand anyone with a potential partner going beserk about being kept in the dark. Surely it is healthier to disclose friendships with ex`s at the start of a relationship, as a trust issue more than anything. Something along the lines I am in a platonic relationshi[p with an ex, so I hope you can understand and cope with that ?

He disclosed it at their first meeting. Seems to me that is before the start of a relationship.

And the OP never said 'ex' either. While I can see some people might feel threatened by an ex still being a big part of the person's life, this was just an online friend.

OP - I'd be curious about exactly what was shared with this other woman that upset you so much? I only ask because I can't imagine anything I told someone in a few weeks of texts and before meeting would be that intimate and private I would be worried about it. Did he tell you exactly what was said/asked? Or are you just guessing that it was something hurtful? Equally was she really attempting to control the relationship or was she just giving general advice? I've certainly given male friends general advice on how I, as a woman, might see certain things. Could just be that he really wanted to make a good impression.

I think it would really help to know what was said. Because there's a difference between 'She told me she's interested in long walks and fine dining, how can I show her that I'm interested in her hobbies?' and 'She told me that she's a recovering alcoholic and that she likes to take it up the bum, tell me how we should proceed'. One is discussing vanilla info and the sort of stuff I'd expect someone to share with their friends if they were excited about their date. One is indeed personal and it would be wrong to share without permission - but surely you wouldn't share anything that intimate before you had met and built some trust?

_____________________________

Being your slave, what should I do but tend
Upon the hours and times of your desire?

(in reply to OsideGirl)

Post #: 20

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