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RE: Why celebrate dead soldiers? - 5/27/2013 6:33:44 PM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

I would love to see you say the above in a room with the love ones of those that sacrificed their life for your right to say it.


I would like to think said loved ones would care enough about that sacrifice to fight back their reaction to honor it, and then politely kick the person out.

IWYW,
— Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: Why celebrate dead soldiers? - 5/27/2013 6:35:41 PM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

Aswad, I agree that Memorial Day remembrances should not be political, Michael didn't start it. The OP started it, in the OP. Hell, even the Subject line was crafted thus.


It was his comment on lefties I considered needless and somewhat uncalled for.

No matter, if memory serves, he put me on ignore a year ago.

I can still salute Jaime, though.

IWYW,
— Aswad.

ETA: Seems my memory served. You can relay my respectful sentiments as to his son, if you care to. They were the more heartfelt part of the message, the criticism more just a "some of us lefties appreciate your son's sacrifice" thing.

ETA²: I think the OP was disrespectful, and disapprove of that. Worth mentioning, since Michael seems to be under the mistaken impression that I somehow approve of the OP on this point, which I don't.


< Message edited by Aswad -- 5/27/2013 6:45:38 PM >

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: Why celebrate dead soldiers? - 5/27/2013 6:50:52 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

I would love to see you say the above in a room with the love ones of those that sacrificed their life for your right to say it.


I would like to think said loved ones would care enough about that sacrifice to fight back their reaction to honor it, and then politely kick the person out.

IWYW,
— Aswad.


Wouldn't happen the op lacks the intestinal fortitude to say something like that to some ones face.

(in reply to Aswad)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: Why celebrate dead soldiers? - 5/27/2013 7:31:42 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

I would love to see you say the above in a room with the love ones of those that sacrificed their life for your right to say it.


I would like to think said loved ones would care enough about that sacrifice to fight back their reaction to honor it, and then politely kick the person out.

IWYW,
— Aswad.


Wouldn't happen the op lacks the intestinal fortitude to say something like that to some ones face.



I concur with the opinion that the person that uttered the statements at the beginning of this topic does not have the balls to say that in a room full of vets and especially a room full of combat vets.

I might even suggest such a person would spit on the flag or even burn it, though the Supreme Court has said such actions are protected under the first amendment, as they should be.

I also feel that the actions of those individuals who might react violently and attempt to harm such an individual should also be protected under the First Amendment. I feel that these actions are also nothing more than symbolism.

_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 84
RE: Why celebrate dead soldiers? - 5/27/2013 8:01:00 PM   
BamaD


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Status: offline 		I also feel that the actions of those individuals who might react violently and attempt to harm such an individual should also be protected under the First Amendment. I feel that these actions are also nothing more than symbolism.


two thumbs up

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Profile   Post #: 85
RE: Why celebrate dead soldiers? - 5/27/2013 8:08:26 PM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Aswad, I agree that Memorial Day remembrances should not be political, Michael didn't start it. The OP started it, in the OP. Hell, even the Subject line was crafted thus.

It was his comment on lefties I considered needless and somewhat uncalled for.
No matter, if memory serves, he put me on ignore a year ago.
I can still salute Jaime, though.
IWYW,
— Aswad.
ETA: Seems my memory served. You can relay my respectful sentiments as to his son, if you care to. They were the more heartfelt part of the message, the criticism more just a "some of us lefties appreciate your son's sacrifice" thing.
ETA²: I think the OP was disrespectful, and disapprove of that. Worth mentioning, since Michael seems to be under the mistaken impression that I somehow approve of the OP on this point, which I don't.


I think this is part of the problem, though, Aswad. IMO, everyone is guilty of it, not just you. But, if you are going to call out Michael for taking a political stance, shouldn't you also call out the rest of those making a political stance on this?

I do hope he sees this and reads your sentiments regarding his son.


_____________________________

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(in reply to Aswad)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: Why celebrate dead soldiers? - 5/27/2013 8:30:25 PM   
jlf1961


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From: Somewhere Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

I also feel that the actions of those individuals who might react violently and attempt to harm such an individual should also be protected under the First Amendment. I feel that these actions are also nothing more than symbolism.


two thumbs up


Well spitting on the flag or burning the flag are symbolic acts, right? Meaning the individual has taken an action, not said a damn thing.

Beating the individual in an attempt to teach him the error of his ways is also an action.

Two actions.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: Why celebrate dead soldiers? - 5/27/2013 8:49:35 PM   
SpanishMatMaster


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Status: offline 		Apparently kdsub, tweakabelle and farglebargle are not going to answer me anymore ¿correct?

kdsub answered my posting, but not the question. tweakabelle and farglebargle do no longer answer my questions.

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Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Why celebrate dead soldiers? - 5/27/2013 8:53:46 PM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Way to condemn more soldiers to needless death. There's no reason you can't go to the parade AND call for the immediate return of all troops to the safety and comfort of their families absent any real danger to the existence of the union.

I guess I just care more about keeping kids alive than celebrating the ones who aren't. Of course, you CAN do both too. But again, since everything since WWII has been a complete scam, I'm not real comfortable with the hangers-on...



Way to misrepresent everything I said. But then again, that's what you are best at. I think the only thing you are trying to keep alive are these shit stirring threads you keep starting.

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Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Why celebrate dead soldiers? - 5/27/2013 8:55:49 PM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

When we have soldiers in harm's way for no reason? There's no 'clear and present danger' to the survival of the union, so every dead soldier since 9/11 has been a complete and total waste, and we need to stop the pointless sacrifice.

BRING THE TROOPS HOME NOW!

We can prosecute the fraudsters who lied to put them in danger once they're safe.




Because part of Memorial Day is remembering to not let those who have died, sacrifice be in vain, but for us all to rise up and continue the fight for liberty and justice for all.

Is that what they(our soldiers) are fighting for Aylee ?


Yes. And I believe that is what they believed they were fighting and dying for these last 237 years.

quote:

Liberty and justice for all,do you really believe that ?


I hope for it. Despair is a sin, as a favorite author of mine often points out.

quote:

How can you believe such bullshit,weren't you paying attention when Haliburton marched off to war ?


What are you talking about? I thought that this was supposed to be about our dead soldiers, not civilian companies. And why the hate on Halliburton anyways? Was there another US company that could have fulfilled all of the roles that Halliburton did?



For those who are still unclear on the concept, Memorial Day (formerly "Decoration Day," as in decorate with flags the graves of our honored dead) is for those who didn't make it home, and for those who did but are no longer with us.

We living veterans have our own day in November, the former Armistice Day. We'll certainly say "You're welcome!" if thanked for our service this weekend, but it's not really _our_ day (yet).

(And if you're having a great long weekend at the beach, or friends over for a cookout, that's cool too.)

A person wiser than I once identified those such as I as one who cared more about others than ourselves. Our service was both "the best of times and the worst of times" but few regret that service or the persons we served with. Our memories are full and, if asked, we would do it all over again. My absent companions (living or dead) are always present in my mind and heart.


QFT

_____________________________

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This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


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Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Why celebrate dead soldiers? - 5/27/2013 9:01:51 PM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RomanticRebel


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

When we have soldiers in harm's way for no reason? There's no 'clear and present danger' to the survival of the union, so every dead soldier since 9/11 has been a complete and total waste, and we need to stop the pointless sacrifice.

BRING THE TROOPS HOME NOW!

We can prosecute the fraudsters who lied to put them in danger once they're safe.




Because part of Memorial Day is remembering to not let those who have died, sacrifice be in vain, but for us all to rise up and continue the fight for liberty and justice for all.

A question I always ask (and never get a straight answer for) is liberty and justice for whom, and for what?

Is it liberty and justice for a person to work 20,30, 40 years for a company, to suddenly have them cut their position, steal the pension fund, and send all the jobs to Central America or Asia? Is it considered liberty and justice to make your mortgage payments faithfully for years, only for the bank to jack up your interest on the loan to the point where it's unpayable, and then foreclose on you? Is it freedom to go broke simply because you got sick and the insurance company refused to pay? Is it just to start a war under false pretenses simply so your corporate friends can steal Iraqi oil?

Capitalism is neither free nor just. Globalization is little more than imperialism carried out in board rooms rather than war rooms. It is a cruel philosophy that has led and will continue to lead to the starvation and destruction of untold millions. Your sense of "liberty" and "justice" are warped.


Continuing to fight for something does not mean everything is perfect now. It means you are trying to get there. Are you suggesting that because there are injustices in the world, we should just give up?

_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert


This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


(in reply to RomanticRebel)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: Why celebrate dead soldiers? - 5/27/2013 9:03:39 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		You did not ask me a question... If you like go ahead and ask me as long as it is on the subject.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 5/27/2013 9:28:55 PM >

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RE: Why celebrate dead soldiers? - 5/27/2013 9:36:17 PM   
RomanticRebel


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Joined: 10/23/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

Continuing to fight for something does not mean everything is perfect now. It means you are trying to get there. Are you suggesting that because there are injustices in the world, we should just give up?


No, I am suggesting that a new way must be devised. I personally favor an economic system where the workers own the means of production, and may keep or sell that product as they see fit.

(in reply to thishereboi)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: Why celebrate dead soldiers? - 5/27/2013 9:50:16 PM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

I think this is part of the problem, though, Aswad. IMO, everyone is guilty of it, not just you. But, if you are going to call out Michael for taking a political stance, shouldn't you also call out the rest of those making a political stance on this?


Note that I never saw the OP.

Good people are worth calling out.

Bad people aren't, unless they need to be shut down.

There's too many idiots out there for me to bother calling out each and every one of them. Particularly the ones whose posts I don't see in the first place, the ones whose posts are- consistently and over time- detrimental to my ability to post constructively, damaging to my faith in humanity, or in other ways a net loss to interact with.

I saw Michael's post, however. I usually do. And I will continue to read his posts until and unless he tells me otherwise. But I've usually not replied, as I've had this vague recollection that he blocked me over a misunderstanding a while back. This time, though, I had something worthwhile to say to him about his son, so I said it, whether or not he read it (as it turns out, he didn't, and wouldn't have known if not for you quoting me). While saying it, I bungled an attempt at letting him know some of us lefties care a lot about veterans and the fallen, regardless of how we feel about the CICs that have wielded them.

Michael has shown himself capable of better than the misplaced 'leftist' comment (the anger is fine, but should be for the OP).

As for the OP... well, there's a reason I didn't see it.

IWYW,
— Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: Why celebrate dead soldiers? - 5/27/2013 10:00:07 PM   
BamaD


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Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

I also feel that the actions of those individuals who might react violently and attempt to harm such an individual should also be protected under the First Amendment. I feel that these actions are also nothing more than symbolism.


two thumbs up


Well spitting on the flag or burning the flag are symbolic acts, right? Meaning the individual has taken an action, not said a damn thing.

Beating the individual in an attempt to teach him the error of his ways is also an action.

Two actions.

I'm retired military so I agree .

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: Why celebrate dead soldiers? - 5/27/2013 10:00:21 PM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

When we have soldiers in harm's way for no reason? There's no 'clear and present danger' to the survival of the union, so every dead soldier since 9/11 has been a complete and total waste, and we need to stop the pointless sacrifice.

BRING THE TROOPS HOME NOW!

We can prosecute the fraudsters who lied to put them in danger once they're safe.


Because part of Memorial Day is remembering to not let those who have died, sacrifice be in vain, but for us all to rise up and continue the fight for liberty and justice for all.

Is that what they(our soldiers) are fighting for Aylee ?
Liberty and justice for all,do you really believe that ?
How can you believe such bullshit,weren't you paying attention when Haliburton marched off to war ?



"when Haliburton marched the United States off to war, for their own benefit," actually.

But I knew what you meant.

According to the mindset demonstrated in several previous posts, Haliburton marched the country off to war only for purpose of defending our right to complain about Haliburton marching the country off to war, which right was, according to them, greatly threatened by Saddam.

Yeah, I was quaking in my boots on that one, how 'bout you?

How noble of them.





< Message edited by Edwynn -- 5/27/2013 10:06:11 PM >

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RE: Why celebrate dead soldiers? - 5/27/2013 10:04:28 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

There's no reason you can't go to the parade AND call for the immediate return of all troops to the safety and comfort of their families absent any real danger to the existence of the union.

True.

I do think one of the most important duties we have in supporting our troops is being damned sure we have good reasons for putting, or keeping, them in harm's way.




_____________________________

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it's never enough to keep up.

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Profile   Post #: 97
RE: Why celebrate dead soldiers? - 5/27/2013 10:09:09 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		marched the United States off to war, for their benefit" actually.

But I knew what you meant.

According to the mindset demonstrated in several previous posts, Haliburton marched the country off to war only for purpose of defending our right to complain about Haliburton marching the country off to war, which right was, according to them, greatly threatened by Saddam.

Yeah, I was quaking in my boots on that one, how 'bout you?

How noble of them.
Wrong 100%.
Farglegarble says don't honor the soldiers IT WAS THE SOLDIERS FIGHTING FOR YOUR RIGHT TO DISRESPECT THEM BECAUSE YOU DON'T LIKE BUSH. We were talking about the servicemen and only the servicemen.

The men aren't the mission and the President isn't the country.

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Profile   Post #: 98
RE: Why celebrate dead soldiers? - 5/27/2013 10:38:15 PM   
Edwynn


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Where in the OP is there any call for "disrespecting soldiers"? Much less having anything to do with their putative battle for our putative right to "disrespect" them?

Is the call to prevent soldiers from dying for blatantly private/corporate benefit now considered as "disrespect" for soldiers?

To my mind, pointing out this reality is actually showing the greatest respect to soldiers, which are in fact citizens, just like all the rest of us.

I'm tired of and increasingly annoyed by this notion of any sentiment concerning the prevention of needless death by the thousands in service to private economic gain as being in any way "disrespectful" to those who freely, if not knowingly, signed up for that very thing.



< Message edited by Edwynn -- 5/27/2013 10:40:43 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 99
RE: Why celebrate dead soldiers? - 5/27/2013 10:44:30 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Well spitting on the flag or burning the flag are symbolic acts, right? Meaning the individual has taken an action, not said a damn thing.

Beating the individual in an attempt to teach him the error of his ways is also an action.

Two actions.

I'm retired military so I agree .



Well, I'm just ex-military, rather than retired, but I still remember the sorts of things I took an oath about, and while I can certainly appreciate the sentiment (and was even wishing a stray mosh pit on the aforementioned WBC at the Hanneman memorial), I disagree, and say the answer to free speech used badly is more speech. ( Attacking the post, rather than the poster, of course. )

< Message edited by TheHeretic -- 5/27/2013 10:45:07 PM >

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That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 100
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