Conditional love and BDSM (Full Version)

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tazzygirl -> Conditional love and BDSM (5/28/2013 4:24:23 AM)

Saw this in the Ask a Master section and its always struck me as odd...

"True love is unconditional"

Do you agree or disagree and why?

I dont agree. My love is conditional... with the exception of my child, who didnt ask me to love him. I just cant wrap my head around the belief that, no matter what, i will love someone irregardless of what they say or do... and that if my love is "true" I will accept anything. Within a BDSM relationship, this is more true than the vanilla world. I may accept things that a typical so called "normal" relationship may not. However, there are things I wont tolerate, no matter how much I may love a person.




Greta75 -> RE: Conditional love and BDSM (5/28/2013 4:46:26 AM)

And love for a child is one of the purest form of love. And not all moms can love unconditionally.
The best kind of love is unconditional, usually people get unhappy when they start focusing on their own feelings and what they want, and stop being able to feel happy about what makes the other party happy, that's what makes relationship break down. The ones who can compromise and forgive and forget will survive.
Unconditional love is true love because it's the toughest kind of love to give.
When things didn't go good with my dom, what helped me let him go, was also telling myself that if i loved him unconditionally, I need to let him go, so he can find someone new who can make him happier than I am making him. Being able to feel that way, really helped me let him go.



tazzygirl -> RE: Conditional love and BDSM (5/28/2013 4:57:27 AM)

Unconditional love would have had you accepting whatever he needed to make him happy within the relationship you had with him. he wouldnt have needed to look elsewhere.



ChatteParfaitt -> RE: Conditional love and BDSM (5/28/2013 5:09:12 AM)

Love as a feeling is unconditional, as an emotion it's impossible to control. A person loves who they love.

Love as an action is (of course) conditional. There are times when a person must accept that even though they love someone (as a feeling), they cannot express that love (as an action).

Having loving actions towards a person is conditional. Unfortunately, there are some people who don't get this. *I* didn't get it until I was in my late 30's. By then I was married to someone who I loved (feeling) but who treated me in such a way I didn't trust him to show my love (actions).

That's when you know it's time to get out.

Even with kids a/o family members, once they've reached adulthood, you sometimes have to cut them off, or show 'tough love.' Which is admitting that, although you will always love them, their actions have put you in a place where you can't show it.



DarkSteven -> RE: Conditional love and BDSM (5/28/2013 5:46:02 AM)

I understand what "unconditional" means in this context. But not necessarily "love".

My ex wife used to think it meant "acceptance". So if either of us screwed up, it was still kind of okay. To me now, it means wanting what's best for another person, wanting them in your life, caring for their wellbeing. It could include punishing my sub lovingly. It could include doing something for her when I'm really not up to it. It could include making her do something that's for the best.



lovethyself -> RE: Conditional love and BDSM (5/28/2013 7:59:47 AM)

FR

Love can be unconditional, but it's not the only emotion or feeling that directs our actions. We as humans are multifaceted (sp?). I may get frustrated with a person, and express that frustration to them. It doesn't mean that I love them any less. Just that in that moment frustration is the driving force behind my actions. Sometimes that frustration is BECAUSE I love them, and want what's best for them.

I like what ChatteParfaitt said.



Missokyst -> RE: Conditional love and BDSM (5/28/2013 9:02:49 AM)

I feel unconditional love for 2 men. I will love them no matter how many years go by, if I see them or I do not is irrelevant. I love them as they have moved on to others. I loved them even if I believe they have changed, or do things I do not accept. Loving them became woven into the rest of who I am. It is not something I have been able to control or switch off though I have tried.
But, I do not believe that sort of unconditional love has anything to do with my giving my all to either of them. Or accepting anything they dish at me while within a relationship with me. I can still love them and move out of their lives for their benefit or mine. Unconditional love does not make me dumb. It is simply something I have learned to accept is part of my natural makeup. Love in itself is not easy for me to give so when I give it, it is a permanant condition.



DesFIP -> RE: Conditional love and BDSM (5/28/2013 9:43:25 AM)

I don't hold it over his head. But yeah, one of the building blocks of this relationship is monogamy. I could not accept it if he wasn't.

I might still care for him but that doesn't mean I'm obligated to let him do things which are toxic for me.

And even with a child, I can see no longer loving them. A paranoid schizophrenic who tries to kill you for example.

Even if it broke my heart and I still loved them, I wouldn't allow them repeated attempts on my life. Thankfully treatment now exists for schizophrenia so this shouldn't have to be something you would face.



theshytype -> RE: Conditional love and BDSM (5/28/2013 11:07:08 AM)

I'm not a fan of the saying "true love" or really even "unconditional love" when referring to anything other than love of a child.
The main reason why I'm not a fan of them is that I cannot, without any uncertainty, say my feelings will never change toward another. I have no control over who I love and both true love and unconditional love, to me at least, would mean a love that will ALWAYS be there.
The only time I can see myself using it would be on my deathbed when all I have to look at is the past and not try to determine the future.
That's just the way I see it.



Greta75 -> RE: Conditional love and BDSM (5/28/2013 11:44:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Unconditional love would have had you accepting whatever he needed to make him happy within the relationship you had with him. he wouldnt have needed to look elsewhere.

But what he wanted, I was incapable of giving, like he wanted me to murder my cats. Okay, sounds serious, but he just want me to give them all up, and in my country, most people hate cats and if you send them to the shelter, they get put down immediately, due to lack of space.
He also gave me an ultimatum and time limit.
I love my cats unconditionally too. That was the best solution. Maybe his right, I loved my cats more than him, but cats are like children, they need you forever. He didn't really need me. I am replaceable.
And I really had to let him go, as his back and forth with me, pressuring me to heel to his demands, you also have unconditional love for your family. What he wanted I felt could possibly have repercussions on my family. You got to choose the best solution for all involved. And now that his happily found a sub that really can fulfill all his needs happily, it felt like a damn good decision. I sincerely feel happy for him and am very supportive towards him with his new relationship. I still love him and miss him, but he gave me impossible choices.



ResidentSadist -> RE: Conditional love and BDSM (5/28/2013 11:53:24 AM)

I fell in love with someone that had a personality issue. I still love them to this day but I will never go back and have another relationship with them. My love is unconditional, but my relationship is conditional.



Spiritedsub2 -> RE: Conditional love and BDSM (5/28/2013 12:27:01 PM)

Requiring you to give up your pets for him (and to certain death) was a complete asshole thing to do. I'm glad you made the decision you did; you deserve better than him. Where was his unconditional love for you?



Greta75 -> RE: Conditional love and BDSM (5/28/2013 1:12:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spiritedsub2

Requiring you to give up your pets for him (and to certain death) was a complete asshole thing to do. I'm glad you made the decision you did; you deserve better than him. Where was his unconditional love for you?

I never said he loved me unconditionally, I said I learn to love him unconditionally, even being aware this unconditional love will never be returned in the same measure.
In the beginning, I also felt he was being such an annoying asshole, giving me such difficult choices and forcing me to make the choice that will see us apart. But later, I realise, his always been honest with me from day one what his kink was. He loves control, humiliation, he loves power, he loves making me do difficult things and the more difficult things I would for him, would make him feel good about his power over me. It's his kink, his never been anything but that since day 1. Infact, his the type of dom who needs a slave, not a sub. He was inlove with me and actually even attempted going vanilla with me rather than break up because of bdsm incompatibilities, but I know he will never be happy with just vanilla. We tried but I felt his frustration and unhappiness, he wants what he can't have with me. We really struggled and agonized about this before I had to tell him, let's not bother trying anymore, go find someone new. In my heart, I want him to bend for me, in his heart, he wants me to bend for him. There is no solution.



Missokyst -> RE: Conditional love and BDSM (5/28/2013 2:36:43 PM)

Perfectly said.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

My love is unconditional, but my relationship is conditional.




SWDesertDom -> RE: Conditional love and BDSM (5/28/2013 4:21:45 PM)

I love my sister. I don't really like my sister very much, but I still love her.



kalikshama -> RE: Conditional love and BDSM (5/28/2013 4:37:05 PM)

I loved my dog unconditionally. People, not so much. Might be due to us having free will.



TNDommeK -> RE: Conditional love and BDSM (5/28/2013 4:38:32 PM)

I believe in unconditional love...depending on the person. My parents have shown me that their loves comes with conditions. My husband has shown me unconditional love.



HisPet21 -> RE: Conditional love and BDSM (5/28/2013 4:41:36 PM)

I consider love to be a choice. It may accompany feelings like affection, or adoration, or sympathy, but ultimately, it is a conscious decision to seek out the best for someone, even at your own expense. Now, what they might think is best for them might not be what is actually best for them. Staying in an abusive relationship isn't just unhealthy for the victim, but the abuser as well. Cruelty and unkindness are just as toxic to those who utilize them as those who suffer them at others' hands, IMHO. The loving thing for an abused person to do is leave the relationship. But anyway, given that, I see love as unconditional. When deciding who I will love, I may take into account their actions toward me and the nature of the relationship, but once I make that decision to love, it doesn't matter what changes, I feel I have a responsibility to care for the person in question.

People change, sometimes for the worse, but you can still love someone out of respect for who they once were.



tazzygirl -> RE: Conditional love and BDSM (5/28/2013 5:06:31 PM)

For me, unconditional love means nothing can ever hope to change it. You love them no matter what they could possibly do.

My litmus test for this is as follows... my son could come home, tell me he killed the man I loved most in the world.. and I would still love my son. I would hate his actions, but the reality of that situation would not change my love for him.

However, the reverse could never be true



Missokyst -> RE: Conditional love and BDSM (5/28/2013 5:34:28 PM)

i completely agree with how you perceive unconditional love.


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

For me, unconditional love means nothing can ever hope to change it. You love them no matter what they could possibly do.

My litmus test for this is as follows... my son could come home, tell me he killed the man I loved most in the world.. and I would still love my son. I would hate his actions, but the reality of that situation would not change my love for him.
However, the reverse could never be true




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