Baby Boomers and the crime rate (Full Version)

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tazzygirl -> Baby Boomers and the crime rate (6/1/2013 11:25:45 AM)

We have had a lot of discussion on the crime rate in the US. Just the US. I cannot speak about this for any other country.

Having said that, I have long thought there was something more to the crime statistics than what is being reported by the MSM as well as the Justice department.

Who caused the jump in the crime rates?

The Baby Boomers.

It wasnt a lack of gun controls/ more gun controls/less gun ownership/ more gun ownership/ prison time/ lenient penal system/ ect ect ect.

But, I couldnt really find the proof I needed, and frankly, I was too lazy to look this stuff up and do the research myself. But watching a discussion on another site got me to looking. Surely I could not be the only one to be making this correlation.

And I wasnt.

First, the handy little graph on crime statictics....

[image]http://i1.wp.com/www.orthocuban.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/518px-Violent_Crime_Rates_in_the_United_States_svg.png[/image]

Keep in mind the Baby Boomer generation was 1946 - 1964. So the youngest today would be 49. The oldest 67.

Now, on to the written piece.

It is interesting to note that almost no correlation has been found between the rising and then falling crime rates. States which severely toughened their criminal penalties and states that did not had equally increased, then equally decreased crime rates. States which were concealed weapon friendly and states which were not had essentially the same rates of violent crime, home invasions, and rape, both going up and going down. In other words, it does not appear that either jurisprudence or penology had much to do with the rise and then the fall of the crime rate.

In fact, there is really only one correlation that can be drawn, and that is the baby boomer generation. The crime rate went up as the baby boomers reached their adult years and began to go down as the baby boomers reached their senior years. There have already been some preliminary studies done that show that the generations that follow the baby boomers already show a lower crime rate than the baby boomers. In fact, after every other factor has been eliminated but the age of the baby boomers, the only explanation left is that the baby boomers, as a generation, are much more willing to disobey the law.

In one way that is not fully surprising. The “ME” generation followed the Greatest Generation. Raised on Benjamin Spock, they learned that their every wish should be fulfilled. As a result, they were the generation that began to see what they wanted as being the most important thing, and anything that blocked what they wanted as being somehow not right. It is no wonder that the crime statistics began to skyrocket.



http://www.orthocuban.com/2011/09/baby-boomers-and-the-crime-rate/

Im not sure I completely agree with his "Me" concept. However, I do believe that when the largest generation born starts to have the normal "angst" of growing up, its going to be reflected in the numbers.

For example, from the government BoJ site....

quote:

Males, blacks, and persons ages 18 to 24 had the highest rates of firearm homicide from 1993 to 2010.


http://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=4616

When that number is the largest in our history, and has since declined, as many have noted for many years when discussing not only health care of the Boomers but also SS benefits and the like.. do we really have to wonder why crime rates went down?




DomKen -> RE: Baby Boomers and the crime rate (6/1/2013 11:28:08 AM)

Certain posters will be along soon to call you a liar. they have attacked me every time I've pointed out that demographics are the best predictor of crime rates.




tazzygirl -> RE: Baby Boomers and the crime rate (6/1/2013 11:31:36 AM)

lol.. sorta hard to argue with graphs [;)]




YN -> RE: Baby Boomers and the crime rate (6/1/2013 12:02:13 PM)

Consider this information then - America's Real Criminal Element: Lead

[image]http://www.motherjones.com/files/Lead_Crime_325.gif[/image]

[image]http://www.motherjones.com/files/Lead_Pregnancy_325.gif[/image]

quote:

In 1994, Rick Nevin was a consultant working for the US Department of Housing and Urban Development on the costs and benefits of removing lead paint from old houses. This has been a topic of intense study because of the growing body of research linking lead exposure in small children with a whole raft of complications later in life, including lower IQ, hyperactivity, behavioral problems, and learning disabilities.

But as Nevin was working on that assignment, his client suggested they might be missing something. A recent study had suggested a link between childhood lead exposure and juvenile delinquency later on. Maybe reducing lead exposure had an effect on violent crime too?

That tip took Nevin in a different direction. The biggest source of lead in the postwar era, it turns out, wasn't paint. It was leaded gasoline. And if you chart the rise and fall of atmospheric lead caused by the rise and fall of leaded gasoline consumption, you get a pretty simple upside-down U: Lead emissions from tailpipes rose steadily from the early '40s through the early '70s, nearly quadrupling over that period. Then, as unleaded gasoline began to replace leaded gasoline, emissions plummeted.
Gasoline lead may explain as much as 90 percent of the rise and fall of violent crime over the past half century.

Intriguingly, violent crime rates followed the same upside-down U pattern. The only thing different was the time period: Crime rates rose dramatically in the '60s through the '80s, and then began dropping steadily starting in the early '90s. The two curves looked eerily identical, but were offset by about 20 years.

So Nevin dove in further, digging up detailed data on lead emissions and crime rates to see if the similarity of the curves was as good as it seemed. It turned out to be even better: In a 2000 paper (PDF) he concluded that if you add a lag time of 23 years, lead emissions from automobiles explain 90 percent of the variation in violent crime in America. Toddlers who ingested high levels of lead in the '40s and '50s really were more likely to become violent criminals in the '60s, '70s, and '80s.


And then -

quote:

Nevin collected lead data and crime data for Australia and found a close match. Ditto for Canada. And Great Britain and Finland and France and Italy and New Zealand and West Germany. Every time, the two curves fit each other astonishingly well. When I spoke to Nevin about this, I asked him if he had ever found a country that didn't fit the theory. "No," he replied. "Not one."

quote:


Like many good theories, the gasoline lead hypothesis helps explain some things we might not have realized even needed explaining. For example, murder rates have always been higher in big cities than in towns and small cities. We're so used to this that it seems unsurprising, but Nevin points out that it might actually have a surprising explanation—because big cities have lots of cars in a small area, they also had high densities of atmospheric lead during the postwar era. But as lead levels in gasoline decreased, the differences between big and small cities largely went away. And guess what? The difference in murder rates went away too. Today, homicide rates are similar in cities of all sizes. It may be that violent crime isn't an inevitable consequence of being a big city after all.

The gasoline lead story has another virtue too: It's the only hypothesis that persuasively explains both the rise of crime in the '60s and '70s and its fall beginning in the '90s. Two other theories—the baby boom demographic bulge and the drug explosion of the '60s—at least have the potential to explain both, but neither one fully fits the known data. Only gasoline lead, with its dramatic rise and fall following World War II, can explain the equally dramatic rise and fall in violent crime.


I think this is a good hypothesis to consider.




tazzygirl -> RE: Baby Boomers and the crime rate (6/1/2013 12:08:23 PM)

quote:

For example, murder rates have always been higher in big cities than in towns and small cities.


Because there are more people.

Thats sorta a no brainer.




YN -> RE: Baby Boomers and the crime rate (6/1/2013 12:11:54 PM)

murder rates = per capita murders. i.e. number of criminal homicides per 100,000 people.




tazzygirl -> RE: Baby Boomers and the crime rate (6/1/2013 12:32:13 PM)

Lets try this again... according to the BJS site...

quote:

Males, blacks, and persons ages 18 to 24 had the highest rates of firearm homicide from 1993 to 2010.


Lets zero in on the age range.

18 - 24

So, in 1990, that age range had a population of...

26,961

in 2000

27,141

and 2010

30,672

The numbers have gone up... but have the percentages?

1990 - 248,791 (10.1%)
2000 - 281,425 ( 9.6%)
2010 - 308,746 ( (9.9%)

http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s0007.pdf

Also note the drastic rise in ages 55 and up.

1990 20.9
2000 21
2010 24.8

Thats a huge jump in our older generation as a percentage of the total population. Almost 1/4 compared to 1/5

1980 saw the population of 18 - 24 at 13.2% and the 55 and older at 20.17
I leave you with those figures as I have an errand to run. Im curious as to what the numbers in 1960 and 1970 bring forth.

However, our population is much older than at least 30 years ago... and thats after the crime rates started to spike. Now, as the elderly has grown, the crime rates have started to drop.

Interesting, no?




Hillwilliam -> RE: Baby Boomers and the crime rate (6/1/2013 1:03:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

lol.. sorta hard to argue with graphs [;)]

We used to have a poster that did it all the time. Even though he 'had multiple advanced degrees and aced statistics', he couldn't interpret a simple straight line X-Y graph.




YN -> RE: Baby Boomers and the crime rate (6/1/2013 1:27:52 PM)

How do you explain the correlation between violent crime and lead levels in other parts of the world where there was no "baby boom?"

It seems to be popular with "law and order" "conservatives" world wide to credit police, prisons, drugs, or particular classes of people with crime or the lack of it. What if it is indeed influenced by chemicals in the environment? Even the Romans were affected by their leaded wine.

quote:

Nevin’s study was extended using various violent crime data from the US, UK, Canada, Australia, West Germany, France and New Zealand. The 2007 paper showed a consistent relationship between preschool blood-lead levels and crime rate trends in nine so-called advanced nations. In the 2012 summary, the data series was updated to 2011, and the correlation persisted.

Meilke and Zahran evaluated lead emissions and latent aggravated assault behaviour in six US cities. Other things held equal, a 1% increase in tonnages of air Pb released 22 years prior corresponded with a 0.46% rise in the aggravated assault rate in the present period. Overall, they claimed that their model explained 90% of the variation in aggravated assault across the cities examined. Unless everyone implemented similar policing at the same time, it seems unlikely that policing methods are the cause of the change.


quote:

It is well known that lead can affect the central, peripheral and autonomic nervous systems and induce sub-clinical and clinical encephalopathy. Increased lead levels in children are reported to have the effect of decreasing IQ. Thus there are possible neurotoxicological mechanisms that may explain these findings, even if the evidence for them is unspecific. Is this enough to establish the association as cause and effect? Many will say yes but others will be more sceptical; I think the answer is ‘just about’. If nothing else, this shows how little we know about the neurobehavioural effects of many chemicals and how difficult it is to investigate them. Serendipity and good monitoring seem to be the current detection methods.

What to conclude from all this? Firstly, be aware of the difference between association and cause and effect; secondly, be sceptical of politicians claiming victories in the fight against crime and political journalists debunking them; and thirdly, remember that the old saw ‘more research is needed’ may actually be true.


Is lead linked to violence? - Chemistry World




Powergamz1 -> RE: Baby Boomers and the crime rate (6/1/2013 2:07:32 PM)

It doesn't matter what country you are in, reported crime rates are about as useful as a crystal ball for predicting anything. There is too much that goes unreported in the first place, and too many variations in what constitutes a 'crime' in the second place.


What any Intro to Crim/Soc/Psych class in the last 50 years should have taught, is that in more stable societies people 'age out' of crime (Hirschi). So the curve (Which can be overlaid on all sorts of other phenomena for those who are impressed by correlation) is merely a reflection of the population bubble known as the Baby Boom.




YN -> RE: Baby Boomers and the crime rate (6/1/2013 2:17:26 PM)

Criminal homicides, and serious assaults with deadly weapons are rather well reported worldwide. Dead bodies with stab wounds and bullet holes are hard to deny, as are those survivors who seek professional medical attention.




Powergamz1 -> RE: Baby Boomers and the crime rate (6/1/2013 2:36:30 PM)

That's fantastic. Totally missed the point of what I posted, but enjoy.
quote:

ORIGINAL: YN

Criminal homicides, and serious assaults with deadly weapons are rather well reported worldwide. Dead bodies with stab wounds and bullet holes are hard to deny, as are those survivors who seek professional medical attention.





YN -> RE: Baby Boomers and the crime rate (6/1/2013 2:53:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

That's fantastic. Totally missed the point of what I posted, but enjoy.
quote:

ORIGINAL: YN

Criminal homicides, and serious assaults with deadly weapons are rather well reported worldwide. Dead bodies with stab wounds and bullet holes are hard to deny, as are those survivors who seek professional medical attention.




You had a point? The correlation between airborne lead and violent criminal conduct was made in a number of other countries, several of which had no sort of "baby boom."

Australia, Canada, the United Kingdom, Finland, France, Italy, New Zealand and West Germany, all had this correlation.

But by all means, it must be your United States elderly who are responsible, perhaps you should lower their Social Security and Medical benefits as a collective punishment for their group criminality, as a part of your economic plan to balance the federal budget.




Politesub53 -> RE: Baby Boomers and the crime rate (6/1/2013 4:34:08 PM)

More on YN`s point about lead in petrol.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2256847/Did-outlawing-leaded-gasoline-cause-crime-rate-drop-Researchers-link-toxic-chemical-violent-behavior.html

The tragedy is that scientists new the dangers of many materials, long before they were banned. In house reports from the 1930s by US companies showed asbestos caused cancer, not just any cancer but a really agressive form called mesothelioma. It has only recently been banned. Money sucking scum hardly describes it.




Powergamz1 -> RE: Baby Boomers and the crime rate (6/1/2013 5:51:49 PM)

I had a point, and I made it just fine, complete with citation... without mentioning lead, or the Lindbergh baby, or anything else in that pile of straw.

If you have some point to make about correlation being the same as causation, I'm not interested.

As far as my citing the widely accepted research that people age out of crime somehow being related to your assertion that I said that the elderly are responsible for crime, you have no point with that strawman comment.

If you think there are environmental factors in violent crime, woohoo, I've already posted that in previous threads.

Now if you can use that chart to accurately predict the rate of homicides in Somalia in the final quarter of next year, I'll be impressed.


quote:

ORIGINAL: YN


quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

That's fantastic. Totally missed the point of what I posted, but enjoy.
quote:

ORIGINAL: YN

Criminal homicides, and serious assaults with deadly weapons are rather well reported worldwide. Dead bodies with stab wounds and bullet holes are hard to deny, as are those survivors who seek professional medical attention.




You had a point? The correlation between airborne lead and violent criminal conduct was made in a number of other countries, several of which had no sort of "baby boom."

Australia, Canada, the United Kingdom, Finland, France, Italy, New Zealand and West Germany, all had this correlation.

But by all means, it must be your United States elderly who are responsible, perhaps you should lower their Social Security and Medical benefits as a collective punishment for their group criminality, as a part of your economic plan to balance the federal budget.





tazzygirl -> RE: Baby Boomers and the crime rate (6/1/2013 6:00:56 PM)

that was a tongue in cheek response




Hillwilliam -> RE: Baby Boomers and the crime rate (6/1/2013 6:20:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

More on YN`s point about lead in petrol.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2256847/Did-outlawing-leaded-gasoline-cause-crime-rate-drop-Researchers-link-toxic-chemical-violent-behavior.html

The tragedy is that scientists new the dangers of many materials, long before they were banned. In house reports from the 1930s by US companies showed asbestos caused cancer, not just any cancer but a really agressive form called mesothelioma. It has only recently been banned. Money sucking scum hardly describes it.

Are you going to call "35 years ago "recently banned?
Asbestos and lead paint were banned in 1978

Now I'll grant you that asbestos was a known health hazard.

In 79 AD, Pliny the Elder noted that slaves who had the occupation of weaving cloth from asbestos tended to die at a relatively young age from lung diseases.




tj444 -> RE: Baby Boomers and the crime rate (6/1/2013 6:42:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
The Baby Boomers.

oh sure.. blame the boomers.. [sm=ofcourse.gif]

I dont think the boomers had everything handed to them or got whatever they wanted, I think the kids of the boomers did tho, cuz boomers wanted to give their kids everything they didnt have, etc...

If this theory is correct, then wouldnt we be expecting the graph to head up again with the next biggest bulge which are the spoiled brats of boomers?




tazzygirl -> RE: Baby Boomers and the crime rate (6/1/2013 7:01:02 PM)

[image]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/66/US_Birth_Rates.svg/795px-US_Birth_Rates.svg.png[/image]

We havent had a bulge like the boom.




Owner59 -> RE: Baby Boomers and the crime rate (6/1/2013 7:01:49 PM)

FR...


Cocaine/crack was the biggest factor in the spike.




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