RE: Baby Boomers and the crime rate (Full Version)

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YN -> RE: Baby Boomers and the crime rate (6/2/2013 1:35:11 PM)

So those drug gangsters terrorizing the streets of United States cities in the 1980's ans 1990s were "baby boomers?"




tazzygirl -> RE: Baby Boomers and the crime rate (6/2/2013 1:44:33 PM)

rofl.... exactly who do you think are "Baby Boomers"?




YN -> RE: Baby Boomers and the crime rate (6/2/2013 2:03:09 PM)

Actually I am asking you who you think they are.

To refresh the crime rate in the '"United States -

[image]http://www.benespen.com/storage/US_crime_rate_graph.jpg[/image]

And considering the age demographics of the majority of criminals your FBI reports (18-25) and that the definition of "baby boomers" consists of those born between WW2 and 1965, it appears the great crime wave in the United States shown as from ~1975-2000 as was largely the handiwork of the "baby boomers" offspring.

So do you think their defective parenting is the source?




njlauren -> RE: Baby Boomers and the crime rate (6/2/2013 2:33:00 PM)

This is a classic example of why statistics can be problematic in terms of causality, it is why when they do studies on things like cancer clusters and the like, they have to rule out other things before deciding on causality. For example, my son was born in a major NYC hospital, and if you looked at the charts on the ratio of kids dying in childbirth, you would think the hospital was crappy, since statistically it was higher than the norm. On the other hand, if you dug down, you would find that because of its expertise the hospital tended to get a lot of high risk pregnancies coming their to be delivered as compared to typical hospitals. I remember a statistic that said a certain town in south florida was a place where if you lived you were more likely to die within 10 years of moving there than anyplace else in the US; but then when you looked, you found out the town was predominantly retirement villages and that the typical resident was over 80 years old.........

With crime, you have to be careful. The spikes happening in the 80's then around 2000 were likely not caused by boomers, or at least if it was, maybe the tail end, given that most crime is in the 18-29 year old bracket.

More importantly, it leaves out other causative effects (not even going to try with the leaded gasoline one....).

-Post WWII, the mass migration of blacks from the Jim Crowe states to the north was in full swing, which brought a huge influx of poor, ill educated people, primarily into cities, and poverty concentrated is a disaster area for crime

-Immigration, especially from Puerto Rico, soared in the post WWII world, and again, mostly poor, ill educated people

(and obviously, factor in discrimination into their plight)....basically, cities saw an outflux of white, middle class people and they were replaced by poor, ill educated people, which helped destabalize cities.

If not the original immigrants, their kids, helped fuel the gang and drug related crimes that peaked by the late 80's in NYC and by 2000 elsewhere. NYC in the late 80's, when I lived in one of the boroughs, had a murder rate of 2500/year, today it is around 600, and it was fueled by drugs, crack and cocaine and dealers fighting over turf.

Plus you also have to take into consideration the cycles of single parent mothers into this equation, the multiple generations of poor, inner city kids born to poor single moms and the cycle of welfare and such. Daniel Patrick Moynihan wrote a book about this around 1959, warning about the consequences, was chastised by liberals as demonizing the poor and blacks and such, but he was right. Arguing it was Doctor Spock is frankly right wing twaddle, conservatives have been trying to blame everything from the *gasp* sexual revolution to feminism to the vietnam war protests on it, but the reality is, most of those brought up by "Dr. Spock" became the middle class and well to do of later generations, not criminals, most crime tends to come from the underclass, not from kids coddled by middle class parents.

The crime declines are complex. In NYC, a lot of it simply was that the crack epidemic went the way of most epidemics, but it is more that that. Changes in police procedure helped target problems, and with the perception that the city was tough on crime, it economically gentrified, large swaths of neighborhoods once crime ridden and poor, are now trendy.

Age, too, helps, the population is aging, and those who were prime candidates in the 80's or 90's to commit crimes are now in their 40's or so, and that decreases the tendency to commit crimes, and there aren't the numbers coming after them, despite the mini booms and such.

It is interesting that even with the economic malaise we have seen, the rates still are not soaring. Not sure entirely why, maybe for the same reason it didn't soar as much in the 1930's as you would expect, people are riding this out, rather than turning to crime, though that is speculation.




Rule -> RE: Baby Boomers and the crime rate (6/2/2013 3:45:55 PM)

It seems to me that the mayor correlation - as for the assaults and robberies - is with the sale of drugs in large quantities, which started about the early sixties.

So the real question is why the drop after 1990? It may be that the drop indeed reflects a population effect. Or is there another cause?




kdsub -> RE: Baby Boomers and the crime rate (6/2/2013 3:57:11 PM)

So you are saying or at least this is what I got... that the great generation were not as good at parenting as the baby boomers. Or perhaps there is something to children trying to not be like their parents.

Butch




BamaD -> RE: Baby Boomers and the crime rate (6/2/2013 4:41:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: YN

How about you explaining just what the "baby booomers" do as a class to commit all these crimes you attribute to their criminality?

I will put this to you in the simplest way I can.
If five percent of the population is of the violence prone age group and the crime rate is x the if that percentage moves to 10 percent the crime rate will be at least 1.5x with no increased criminality on the part of the age bulge.




BamaD -> RE: Baby Boomers and the crime rate (6/2/2013 4:43:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: YN

So those drug gangsters terrorizing the streets of United States cities in the 1980's ans 1990s were "baby boomers?"

To a great extent yes.




BamaD -> RE: Baby Boomers and the crime rate (6/2/2013 4:45:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

So you are saying or at least this is what I got... that the great generation were not as good at parenting as the baby boomers. Or perhaps there is something to children trying to not be like their parents.

Butch

The baby boomers babies don't form the bulge that the baby boomers do.




YN -> RE: Baby Boomers and the crime rate (6/2/2013 5:17:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

So you are saying or at least this is what I got... that the great generation were not as good at parenting as the baby boomers. Or perhaps there is something to children trying to not be like their parents.

Butch

The baby boomers babies don't form the bulge that the baby boomers do.



So the majority of the criminals of the 1980-90s were mostly middle aged (35-60) instead of as your Justice Department claims, in the 18-25 year old age group (which age group is also the criminal majority world-wide.)

Do you have any opinions as to why your government would lie about such things?




Politesub53 -> RE: Baby Boomers and the crime rate (6/2/2013 5:17:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

UK until 1999


And yet your spike in "Violent Crime" didnt hit until around 1999 - 2000.



I was replying about to Hillwill regards asbestos, not petrol.

Incidently we started phasing out leaded fuel in the mid 80s, so there may be a decrease in crime after that point.

For what its worth I think increased Benzine in unleaded could lead to a rise in cancer. So its a case of solving one problem while introducing another.




YN -> RE: Baby Boomers and the crime rate (6/2/2013 5:20:44 PM)

No worries, I am certain the steroids and growth hormones installed in meat in North America, and Europe will be the next interesting vector in regards to health and crime.




BamaD -> RE: Baby Boomers and the crime rate (6/2/2013 5:23:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: YN

No worries, I am certain the steroids and growth hormones installed in meat in North America, and Europe will be the next interesting vector in regards to health and crime.

If that makes you happy




Politesub53 -> RE: Baby Boomers and the crime rate (6/2/2013 5:28:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: YN

No worries, I am certain the steroids and growth hormones installed in meat in North America, and Europe will be the next interesting vector in regards to health and crime.



No doubt. The whole food industry is cutting costs at the price of health, to maximise profit.




Politesub53 -> RE: Baby Boomers and the crime rate (6/2/2013 5:30:17 PM)

Bama, the whole point is unregulated industries put profit as the top line, everything else is an afterthought.

I am unsure if you ever saw Food.Inc but its certainly worth watching with an open mind.




tazzygirl -> RE: Baby Boomers and the crime rate (6/2/2013 6:41:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: YN

Actually I am asking you who you think they are.

To refresh the crime rate in the '"United States -

[image]http://www.benespen.com/storage/US_crime_rate_graph.jpg[/image]

And considering the age demographics of the majority of criminals your FBI reports (18-25) and that the definition of "baby boomers" consists of those born between WW2 and 1965, it appears the great crime wave in the United States shown as from ~1975-2000 as was largely the handiwork of the "baby boomers" offspring.

So do you think their defective parenting is the source?


1964... would have then 18 in 1982

1946.. would have them 18 in 1964

That wasnt the offspring... that was the Boomer generation.




YN -> RE: Baby Boomers and the crime rate (6/2/2013 6:45:21 PM)

And those in your "roaring 90's?"




BamaD -> RE: Baby Boomers and the crime rate (6/2/2013 6:46:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Bama, the whole point is unregulated industries put profit as the top line, everything else is an afterthought.

I am unsure if you ever saw Food.Inc but its certainly worth watching with an open mind.

Interesting but irrelevant.




tazzygirl -> RE: Baby Boomers and the crime rate (6/2/2013 6:47:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: YN

And those in your "roaring 90's?"


LOL... the boomers continuing as the siblings along for the ride.




BamaD -> RE: Baby Boomers and the crime rate (6/2/2013 6:48:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: YN

And those in your "roaring 90's?"

When the crime rate began to drop.




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