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RE: Yet another campus shooting. - 6/9/2013 6:54:24 AM

freedomdwarf1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1
Except I never said that. I said that extremists wanting to eliminate *police* gun ownership would logically lead to more deaths. Unless of course, you are talking about some kind of magic wand that makes every gun on the planet vanish, and prevents any more from being made.

So.... from post #51 -

quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1
Like it or not, the fact is that more people would have died in this incident (and many others) if the extremist calls to disarm everyone including police ( which I've already linked to, so spare me any further strawmen), were put into effect.

Highlighting mine.

Are you now denying you said that and it wasn't only the police???

You have now moved the goalposts yet again.

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Post #: 61

RE: Yet another campus shooting. - 6/9/2013 7:07:33 AM

Real0ne

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

It is so sad this continues, whatever the reason.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22823290

yeh well you know how it is.

americans are fucked up

yeh we need you brits to tell us how to do it right!

< Message edited by Real0ne -- 6/9/2013 7:08:44 AM >

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Post #: 62

RE: Yet another campus shooting. - 6/9/2013 7:14:06 AM

Powergamz1

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You asked about all the shootings in America, not in this incident.

I gave you the factors... massive availability of guns, a large populace, and the wave of media sensationalism.

Are you now claiming that too many guns and media have nothing at all to do with gun violence in America?

That sounds like NRA nonsense.

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

By average Joe, are you talking about the police? Because that is the topic at hand, the move to disarm the police, and include them as 'gun nuts'.

If we are talking about the population in general, what is the difficulty in grasping the notion that massively more guns in circulation among a large populace spurred on by the media, is going to lead to more shootings?

Nope. 'Average Joe' has naver been attributed to mean just the police. It never has.
Are you deliberately trying to derail the thread with something irrelevant and obtuse??

The topic at hand is not about the police at all - it's about the campus shooting.

And I don't see anything contained in this thread that makes your assertion of 'spurred on by media' relevant or even true.

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Post #: 63

RE: Yet another campus shooting. - 6/9/2013 7:20:29 AM

Powergamz1

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Nice try at editing out the context. I'm not the one calling the police 'gunslingers' here. I linked to the factual reports about disarming campus police, so the denier rhetoric isn't going to fly.

What exactly is your point? You clearly disagree with my assessment that more gun deaths are a tragedy, and that the problem should be addressed via several factors starting with too many guns, and too much media glorification of gun culture.

What then is your solution?

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1
Except I never said that. I said that extremists wanting to eliminate *police* gun ownership would logically lead to more deaths. Unless of course, you are talking about some kind of magic wand that makes every gun on the planet vanish, and prevents any more from being made.

So.... from post #51 -

quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1
Like it or not, the fact is that more people would have died in this incident (and many others) if the extremist calls to disarm everyone including police ( which I've already linked to, so spare me any further strawmen), were put into effect.

Highlighting mine.

Are you now denying you said that and it wasn't only the police???

You have now moved the goalposts yet again.

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Post #: 64

RE: Yet another campus shooting. - 6/9/2013 7:28:53 AM

freedomdwarf1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1
You asked about all the shootings in America, not in this incident.

I did nothing of the sort.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1
I gave you the factors... massive availability of guns, a large populace, and the wave of media sensationalism.

And I disagreed with your assumptions. As did others.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1
Are you now claiming that too many guns and media have nothing at all to do with gun violence in America?

Stop adding bits to what I said.

I have already said that your assertion of the media is neither mentioned or even true.
So don't try to put that into something I said.

What I am stating, is that if Joe public didn't have access to firearms in the same manner and ease as that of US citizens, you would see far less shootings and gun-related deaths and crimes.
That is a matter of fact that is provable by many different statistics.
The US has by far the greatest number of gun-related deaths and random shootings per capita by a factor of 20 compared to any other country in the world - even other violent countries.

So your assertion that "less guns = more deaths" is both foolish and refutable by facts.

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Post #: 65

RE: Yet another campus shooting. - 6/9/2013 7:32:04 AM

freedomdwarf1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1
Nice try at editing out the context. I'm not the one calling the police 'gunslingers' here. I linked to the factual reports about disarming campus police, so the denier rhetoric isn't going to fly.

I edited out nothing.
I quoted you word for word.
Now you are squirming because I caught you out red handed.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1
What then is your solution?

Quite simply - removal of public ownership of guns.
It works for many countries and the proof is in the statistics.

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Post #: 66

RE: Yet another campus shooting. - 6/9/2013 7:39:26 AM

Powergamz1

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quote:

your assertion that "less guns = more deaths" is both foolish and refutable by facts

What I actually said was that once the shooting has started, unarmed policemen will give the shooter more opportunities to kill more people. Period.

So please explain how that exact statement is refuted by the facts.
A link to those facts would be especially nice, since I went to the trouble to provide more than one link.

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1
You asked about all the shootings in America, not in this incident.

I did nothing of the sort.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1
I gave you the factors... massive availability of guns, a large populace, and the wave of media sensationalism.

And I disagreed with your assumptions. As did others.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1
Are you now claiming that too many guns and media have nothing at all to do with gun violence in America?

Stop adding bits to what I said.

I have already said that your assertion of the media is neither mentioned or even true.
So don't try to put that into something I said.

What I am stating, is that if Joe public didn't have access to firearms in the same manner and ease as that of US citizens, you would see far less shootings and gun-related deaths and crimes.
That is a matter of fact that is provable by many different statistics.
The US has by far the greatest number of gun-related deaths and random shootings per capita by a factor of 20 compared to any other country in the world - even other violent countries.

So your assertion that "less guns = more deaths" is both foolish and refutable by facts.

< Message edited by Powergamz1 -- 6/9/2013 7:40:21 AM >

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Post #: 67

RE: Yet another campus shooting. - 6/9/2013 7:42:34 AM

Powergamz1

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And yet when I post that too much public ownership of guns is a major part of the problem, you disagree.

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1
Nice try at editing out the context. I'm not the one calling the police 'gunslingers' here. I linked to the factual reports about disarming campus police, so the denier rhetoric isn't going to fly.

I edited out nothing.
I quoted you word for word.
Now you are squirming because I caught you out red handed.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1
What then is your solution?

Quite simply - removal of public ownership of guns.
It works for many countries and the proof is in the statistics.

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Post #: 68

RE: Yet another campus shooting. - 6/9/2013 7:48:24 AM

freedomdwarf1

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Try re-reading the words you said in post #51.

It was nothing about who started what or when.
You are trying to dodge the issue.

You categorically stated "...the fact is that more people would have died in this incident (and many others) if the extremist calls to disarm everyone including police...".
Now you are shifting the goalposts yet again.

What you are saying now (and quoting that you 'actually' said) is bunkum because you never said such.
Don't change the story to fit you ideas as they come to mind rather than deal with what you really said.
So your statement was never said by you and now you are wanting to support what I said about the facts??

Use Google.
Look at any website giving gun deaths per capita and see how the US is waaaay in front of any, and I do mean any, other country.
There are your facts.

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Post #: 69

RE: Yet another campus shooting. - 6/9/2013 7:49:58 AM

freedomdwarf1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1
And yet when I post that too much public ownership of guns is a major part of the problem, you disagree.

I didn't see that in your post #51.
In fact, you said exactly the opposite.

Now get out of that one!

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Post #: 70

RE: Yet another campus shooting. - 6/9/2013 10:37:51 AM

LizDeluxe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
I have given up thinking there will ever be rational thought about guns in America.

Banning them certainly is not a rational solution.

quote:

Fuck...it is hard for a patriot like me to admit that at times I am ashamed of my countrymen...and hell... ashamed of myself for not trying to do more to right this wrong.

Don't be so hard on yourself. You found the motivation to come bitch about it anonymously on a political forum... on a fetish website.

That's something to hang your hat on.

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Post #: 71

RE: Yet another campus shooting. - 6/9/2013 3:27:29 PM

Powergamz1

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Employ all the sophomoric tactics at the expense of dead people you want. I've answered your questions, and I'm still waiting for you to do the same.

One last time, what I posted was that the more deaths, the greater the tragedy.
I pointed out the irony that *once the shooting starts* (shootings that are fueled by too easy access to too many guns, and a shoot-em-up gun culture fueled by the media), they are usually ended by police with weapons... Real life is often ironic.

Another poster said something about seizing all privately owned guns, and in direct response to that particular post, I linked to the fact that there are places out there where campus police aren't allowed to have guns, and pointed out that *in this case* it was a good thing that the notion of disarming everyone including the police, hadn't reached this particular campus yet. At least good for people other than the shooter.

If you have facts to refute any of what I actually said, I'll be fascinated to see them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

Try re-reading the words you said in post #51.

It was nothing about who started what or when.
You are trying to dodge the issue.

You categorically stated "...the fact is that more people would have died in this incident (and many others) if the extremist calls to disarm everyone including police...".
Now you are shifting the goalposts yet again.

What you are saying now (and quoting that you 'actually' said) is bunkum because you never said such.
Don't change the story to fit you ideas as they come to mind rather than deal with what you really said.
So your statement was never said by you and now you are wanting to support what I said about the facts??

Use Google.
Look at any website giving gun deaths per capita and see how the US is waaaay in front of any, and I do mean any, other country.
There are your facts.

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Post #: 72

RE: Yet another campus shooting. - 6/9/2013 4:09:35 PM

kdsub

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quote:

How do you explain the fact that Mexico with equally draconian gun laws not only has a much higher murder rate than England but also much higher than the U S

I will be happy to...Gun laws...which by the way are not as restrictive as you imply, have nothing to do with the high murder rate in Mexico... What does is the insatiable desire for drugs in America. It is our fault not the average citizen gun owner or non-gun owner in Mexico.

Butch

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Post #: 73

RE: Yet another campus shooting. - 6/9/2013 4:10:00 PM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

It is so sad this continues, whatever the reason.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22823290

yeh well you know how it is.

americans are fucked up

yeh we need you brits to tell us how to do it right!

Well your second amendment was an English law first, as was just about everything else. Go figure.

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Post #: 74

RE: Yet another campus shooting. - 6/9/2013 4:12:41 PM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

Employ all the sophomoric tactics at the expense of dead people you want.

A laughable charge, given your style of posting.

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Post #: 75

RE: Yet another campus shooting. - 6/9/2013 5:02:40 PM

lovmuffin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

It is so sad this continues, whatever the reason.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22823290

yeh well you know how it is.

americans are fucked up

yeh we need you brits to tell us how to do it right!

Well your second amendment was an English law first, as was just about everything else. Go figure.

And yet the Citizens of Great Britain have been effectively disarmed.

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Post #: 76

RE: Yet another campus shooting. - 6/9/2013 6:06:06 PM

Powergamz1

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Once more, do you have any facts, or is it simply 'attack the poster' without being able to back any of it up?

Do you want to provide some facts to refute the claim that in this situation, an unarmed campus police force would have meant more deaths?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

Employ all the sophomoric tactics at the expense of dead people you want.

A laughable charge, given your style of posting.

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Post #: 77

RE: Yet another campus shooting. - 6/9/2013 7:32:12 PM

slvemike4u

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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

By average Joe, are you talking about the police? Because that is the topic at hand, the move to disarm the police, and include them as 'gun nuts'.

If we are talking about the population in general, what is the difficulty in grasping the notion that massively more guns in circulation among a large populace spurred on by the media, is going to lead to more shootings?

Nope. 'Average Joe' has naver been attributed to mean just the police. It never has.
Are you deliberately trying to derail the thread with something irrelevant and obtuse??

The topic at hand is not about the police at all - it's about the campus shooting.

And I don't see anything contained in this thread that makes your assertion of 'spurred on by media' relevant or even true.

I've been here for years,I have never seen a thread get twisted ,and more bullshit tossed than has been attempted here
I guess some sort of congratulations are in order

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Post #: 78

RE: Yet another campus shooting. - 6/9/2013 7:39:07 PM

dcnovice

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quote:

I've been here for years,I have never seen a thread get twisted ,and more bullshit tossed than has been attempted here. I guess some sort of congratulations are in order

Mike, you're forgetting the forced bi/sexual orientation thread that morphed into a discussion of backyard-barbecue cannibalism!

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Post #: 79

RE: Yet another campus shooting. - 6/9/2013 7:50:39 PM

slvemike4u

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I missed that thread(but I'm laughing my ass off reading it now)

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Post #: 80