RE: Yet another campus shooting. (Full Version)

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kdsub -> RE: Yet another campus shooting. (6/15/2013 7:39:35 AM)


quote:

FBI contention that 4 times as many crimes are stopped with guns


I failed to find that particular statistic and I looked...could you link it for me?


Butch




Kirata -> RE: Yet another campus shooting. (6/15/2013 8:30:52 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

FBI contention that 4 times as many crimes are stopped with guns


I failed to find that particular statistic and I looked...could you link it for me?

I'm not sure what link that is either, but the first two posts in this thread (below) address defensive gun use in the United States.

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4363388

K.




kdsub -> RE: Yet another campus shooting. (6/15/2013 1:10:54 PM)

Strange... I was never asked in any of these surveys...how accurate can they be?

I would like to see hard documented evidence such as FBI statistics as claimed...I am always willing to change my mind when faced with facts. Until then I will continue with my experiences.

Butch




Kirata -> RE: Yet another campus shooting. (6/15/2013 4:05:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Strange... I was never asked in any of these surveys...how accurate can they be?

Oh, gee, I didn't know that. Well damn, if you were never asked they must be bunk. Sorry.

K.




slvemike4u -> RE: Yet another campus shooting. (6/15/2013 4:17:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Strange... I was never asked in any of these surveys...how accurate can they be?

Oh, gee, I didn't know that. Well damn, if you were never asked they must be bunk. Sorry.

K.


Don't be so hard on yourself,we all screw up from time to time[:)]




BamaD -> RE: Yet another campus shooting. (6/15/2013 7:04:48 PM)

I failed to find that particular statistic and I looked...could you link it for me?

I will try to find it but I didn't post the original link.




BamaD -> RE: Yet another campus shooting. (6/15/2013 7:07:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Strange... I was never asked in any of these surveys...how accurate can they be?

I would like to see hard documented evidence such as FBI statistics as claimed...I am always willing to change my mind when faced with facts. Until then I will continue with my experiences.

Butch

Neither was I, but my personal experiences support this.
Were you ever called on a political poll asking who you would vote for, I haven't been but that doesn't invalidate them.




kdsub -> RE: Yet another campus shooting. (6/15/2013 7:13:52 PM)

Were you asked? Please anyone reading this thread were you asked ?

Do you see where I am going with this?

My opinion on the linked surveys.... They are crap with no documented statistics. Would you not find it odd that with the millions of responders that no one was asked on this thread? Or even heard of the surveys before?

I will change my tune if I see real evidence... At least on this point anyway.




BamaD -> RE: Yet another campus shooting. (6/15/2013 7:22:52 PM)

www.pulpless.com/gunclock/kleck2.html




kdsub -> RE: Yet another campus shooting. (6/15/2013 7:30:03 PM)

Evidence please not propaganda. If there are FBI statistics as claimed then let's see them.

There could be such information but until I see it I am skeptical. I live in a very violent area and I can only think of two stories of where a gun was used by a private citizen to defend their home. In the same time there have been hundreds of gun murders and many many children killed or wounded by gun accidents.

I do have more than a few friends who own guns... so do I...none have used them in any kind of defense in their lives... yet two were victims of gun violence. One even while having a weapon on his person. Where are the four times as many crimes stopped by legal gun owners. Not in my town in any case.

But it could be different elsewhere but I would need to see the FBI statistics to believe it.


Butch





kdsub -> RE: Yet another campus shooting. (6/15/2013 8:15:56 PM)

I want to add here... I am for the responsible ownership of guns... But...we are not being responsible and if we do not change eventually there will be a backlash that no gun owner will be happy with. Check THIS silly crap out... We as gun owners have problems...and our country has gun crime problems...ignoring the problems or over-reacting as above will only in the end mean more and stronger gun laws then were proposed just awhile back.

Butch




Kirata -> RE: Yet another campus shooting. (6/15/2013 8:37:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Do you see where I am going with this?

Yeah, I see where you're going. The thoughts and feelings of people who disagree with you are "silly crap," and a dozen or more surveys are evidence of nothing because nobody on this thread was polled. Got it. Thanks for sharing.

K.








BamaD -> RE: Yet another campus shooting. (6/15/2013 8:55:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I want to add here... I am for the responsible ownership of guns... But...we are not being responsible and if we do not change eventually there will be a backlash that no gun owner will be happy with. Check THIS silly crap out... We as gun owners have problems...and our country has gun crime problems...ignoring the problems or over-reacting as above will only in the end mean more and stronger gun laws then were proposed just awhile back.

Butch

So we give up everything that is asked or else same deal my first wife's lawyer gave me, as a result she got nothing.
Yes you do live in a high crime area even back in the 70's when I lived in n Mo St Louis was considered a high crime cesspool. My immediate family has stopped over half a dozen crimes with guns both in the Midwest and in the South. I would agree that overreaching will cause a backlash, and we are seeing it now with Sheriffs all over the country challenging new gun laws and refusing to enforce them. It is the antigun crowd that has overreached. The link I gave you explains and tries to convince your side wanted to outlaw some 3 million guns, ar-15s being over a million of them.




SilverMark -> RE: Yet another campus shooting. (6/15/2013 9:04:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I want to add here... I am for the responsible ownership of guns... But...we are not being responsible and if we do not change eventually there will be a backlash that no gun owner will be happy with. Check THIS silly crap out... We as gun owners have problems...and our country has gun crime problems...ignoring the problems or over-reacting as above will only in the end mean more and stronger gun laws then were proposed just awhile back.

Butch

So we give up everything that is asked or else same deal my first wife's lawyer gave me, as a result she got nothing.
Yes you do live in a high crime area even back in the 70's when I lived in n Mo St Louis was considered a high crime cesspool. My immediate family has stopped over half a dozen crimes with guns both in the Midwest and in the South. I would agree that overreaching will cause a backlash, and we are seeing it now with Sheriffs all over the country challenging new gun laws and refusing to enforce them. It is the antigun crowd that has overreached. The link I gave you explains and tries to convince your side wanted to outlaw some 3 million guns, ar-15s being over a million of them.


Ah, the posturing Sheriffs, I saw them line up with all their grandstanding during the last gun law debate. Not sure some of them are quite bright enough to understand the law, let alone enforce it. If they refuse to enforce any federal laws, they'll end up in a Federal Court in front of judges who would not hesitate to put them in prison in contempt, and held there until they decide they aren't the ones who make laws. As for the claims of stopping criminals with the use of fire arms, there are few police officers that have ever discharged their weapons in the act of stopping crime, no personal offense, but sounds like BS to me! Those that enforce the laws are not above them, those that think they are normally learn that no matter how important they are in their county, outside of it, they are just another person, badge or not.




SilverMark -> RE: Yet another campus shooting. (6/15/2013 9:13:44 PM)

The Defensive Gun Use studies vary wildly, if you use the study by Hemmingway at Northwestern and published in the Journal of Criminal Law and criminology, the most often statistics used are over-estimated by 17 times the actual number.

http://www.saf.org/lawreviews/hemenway1.htm




BamaD -> RE: Yet another campus shooting. (6/15/2013 9:29:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I want to add here... I am for the responsible ownership of guns... But...we are not being responsible and if we do not change eventually there will be a backlash that no gun owner will be happy with. Check THIS silly crap out... We as gun owners have problems...and our country has gun crime problems...ignoring the problems or over-reacting as above will only in the end mean more and stronger gun laws then were proposed just awhile back.

Butch

So we give up everything that is asked or else same deal my first wife's lawyer gave me, as a result she got nothing.
Yes you do live in a high crime area even back in the 70's when I lived in n Mo St Louis was considered a high crime cesspool. My immediate family has stopped over half a dozen crimes with guns both in the Midwest and in the South. I would agree that overreaching will cause a backlash, and we are seeing it now with Sheriffs all over the country challenging new gun laws and refusing to enforce them. It is the antigun crowd that has overreached. The link I gave you explains and tries to convince your side wanted to outlaw some 3 million guns, ar-15s being over a million of them.


Ah, the posturing Sheriffs, I saw them line up with all their grandstanding during the last gun law debate. Not sure some of them are quite bright enough to understand the law, let alone enforce it. If they refuse to enforce any federal laws, they'll end up in a Federal Court in front of judges who would not hesitate to put them in prison in contempt, and held there until they decide they aren't the ones who make laws. As for the claims of stopping criminals with the use of fire arms, there are few police officers that have ever discharged their weapons in the act of stopping crime, no personal offense, but sounds like BS to me! Those that enforce the laws are not above them, those that think they are normally learn that no matter how important they are in their county, outside of it, they are just another person, badge or not.

I agree that those Sheriffs who refuse to enforce the law are at best on shaky ground but as one pointed out if the feds won't let us enforce immigration law why should we have to enforce gun laws. Are not the President and AG equally bound to enforce the law, do you really want to open that can of worms by starting the prosecutions The ones who are suing to overturn laws are well within their rights. To echo KDsub I have to accept personal experience and in my family the ratio is about 6-1 in favor of stopping crimes using firearms. As for being overestimated non of those 6 were ever reported to the authorities so I have to believe that the number is grossly underestimated.




Kirata -> RE: Yet another campus shooting. (6/16/2013 7:01:44 AM)


~ FR ~

Defensive Gun Use Incident Map

K.




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