RE: Dom is different (Full Version)

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chatterbox24 -> RE: Dom is different (6/19/2013 8:42:47 AM)

I want to bring attention to the fact this wasn't my thread. I merely came to the defense of something I found a pattern I do not agree with, and thus is return the thread became about cheating. The threat wasn't even about cheating.
It was about overstepping boundaries for me, and painting all people the same and a bit of ganging going on in my eyes. Someone made the comment "are you from the same planet as me?" Well yes I am, but maybe I don't think from the same place as you might.
If I sound defensive, I do apologize, but I do not apologize for standing up for the way I believe, or coming to the defense for another, even if what they are doing is wrong. If I can make them feel better, even as they do wrong, it can give people hope. I know how bad it feels to be doing wrong, and just want someone to still be kind. It can really change things.
We do not learn from a bed of roses in life, but we do learn from a bed of thorns, but hopefully when each and everyone of you is struggling in something in your life, there will be a rose petal there to ease your wound.
I have many many things I need to work inside of myself for building of character, as each and everyone of us do.
Paint me a liar, paint me anything you want at any time but as much as you want me to agree to your terms, until I have a revelation to think differently, my foreign though system will stay the same.
Excuse me, my mother is coming over and I feel no need to explain anything any further. Its lovely to be liked and understood but when I am not, its just part of it. Now I said I wasn't posting to this anymore, and now I will mean it.



tazzygirl -> RE: Dom is different (6/19/2013 9:08:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsEloquence

Chatterbox24, thanks BUT....

You aren't ok with the negtive responses you get. If you were you'd stop trying to explain how it's other people who are messed up. Eventually they'll probably stop commenting on your flaws.

Tazzygirl:

I suspect that Chatterbox24 doesnt realize how defensive she sounds


I ran much the same way she is.

Trying to justify the actions, and the acceptance of such actions, because you were "forgiven by god" or because you finally came clean to your partner isnt cutting it.

Saying one sin isnt as bad as another, to me, is hypocritical. Saying lying is far worse than cheating, to me, is hypocritical. Saying you found grace from god when you have shown no remorse for your actions, to me, is hypocritical.

You will notice, since my post yesterday, she has avoided the whole topic. Why? I have a feeling because she sees that someone isnt fooled... or easily misled. Its hard to fool someone who has walked the same path, and isnt afraid to admit they have.



RedMagic1 -> RE: Dom is different (6/19/2013 9:15:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24
The threat wasn't even about cheating.

Yeah, it was. The OP's question translated to: "I'm married but sexydating another woman's husband. He used to give me more attention but now is giving me less. Why is that?" She was asking for a male dom's ideas about why her man/affair might be changing that way. So the question is inseparable from the situation it's in.



OsideGirl -> RE: Dom is different (6/19/2013 9:51:44 AM)

Exactly.

The OP was questioning the cause of the behavior. The answer is linked to the fact that they're both married and cheating.

If this thread had been about ignoring limits (also breaking trust) there would have been no defenders.



cloudboy -> RE: Dom is different (6/19/2013 11:33:26 AM)

quote:

married and cheating


Married and cheating threads usually bottle-rocket to 20 pages overnight. One side judges and condemns, the other side needs more than her marriage provide.

Two things are not readily apparent in such a debate.

Flexible marriages last longer.

Honesty is not always the best policy.

----

All that said, I think Bita was right, regarding the OP, "he was just not that into you."

Good luck OP, balancing marriage and your own needs is a difficult project.



tazzygirl -> RE: Dom is different (6/19/2013 12:27:39 PM)

quote:

Honesty is not always the best policy.


For whom?



stef -> RE: Dom is different (6/19/2013 12:57:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

Honesty is not always the best policy.


For whom?

For the cheater, obviously.



cloudboy -> RE: Dom is different (6/19/2013 3:18:00 PM)


I've been on these boards now for a long time, and I've tracked the extra-marital threads. There is a knee-jerk reaction to judge the "cheater" and call the person a liar and a scoundrel. Extra-marital thread participants are often unmarried, divorced, and inexperienced in LT relationships. A lack of experience and empathy results in black-and-white thinking and emotional projection.

My view is that the married person often occupies a rather difficult, complicated position. If being "honest" will blow up the marriage, then it's rational and sound not to be that way. Avoiding divorce or acrimonious conflicts is also important in decision-making. We just don't know all the circumstances going on to make a judgement. But the judgments flow easily and with certainty from the marital-police squad.

My own view is that individuals remain individuals even if married. Life time contracts (such as marital vows) are impractical and often unworkable.

So, I tend to trust in the judgment of the married person and won't readily condemn them for seeking extra-marital intimacy. If they're not telling their spouse, then I assume they have good reasons not to. I try to offer some sort of reasonable support to them.





Rawni -> RE: Dom is different (6/19/2013 3:23:55 PM)

ROFL.... Well, alright then.



OsideGirl -> RE: Dom is different (6/19/2013 3:29:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
If being "honest" will blow up the marriage, then it's rational and sound not to be that way. Avoiding divorce or acrimonious conflicts is also important in decision-making.


Or they could just not cheat.

Again, if someone came here and said that they ignore the limits of others because their wants weren't being met, no one would be defending the OP.

Cheating on your spouse is essentially breaking someone else's limit. Only you're doing it behind their back, hoping that you don't have to deal with the fall out.



freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Dom is different (6/19/2013 3:49:21 PM)

I take issue with some of your statements.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
I've been on these boards now for a long time, and I've tracked the extra-marital threads. There is a knee-jerk reaction to judge the "cheater" and call the person a liar and a scoundrel.

If they cheat on their partner, then they are also lying to them by omission.
And that, in most people's books also makes them a scoundrel of the highest order.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
Extra-marital thread participants are often unmarried, divorced, and inexperienced in LT relationships. A lack of experience and empathy results in black-and-white thinking and emotional projection.

A cheater doesn't have to be married.
But as I said above, a cheater is both a liar and a scoundrel.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
My view is that the married person often occupies a rather difficult, complicated position. If being "honest" will blow up the marriage, then it's rational and sound not to be that way.

If being honest will destroy a marriage, then that marriage is no more than a sham.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
Avoiding divorce or acrimonious conflicts is also important in decision-making. We just don't know all the circumstances going on to make a judgement. But the judgments flow easily and with certainty from the marital-police squad.

It's nothing to do with that.
I would say the majority of decent people will respect the vows of marriage (whether they are religious or not) and utterly scorn upon someone who either cheats or is prepared to step between a married couple.
In my books, the 3rd cog is just as guilty of cheating as the cheater in the marriage.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
My own view is that individuals remain individuals even if married.

Nobody loses their entire identity within a marriage.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
Life time contracts (such as marital vows) are impractical and often unworkable.

If you find the marriage isn't working for whatever reason, you get out of that arrangement FIRST before you start playing with another.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy 
So, I tend to trust in the judgment of the married person and won't readily condemn them for seeking extra-marital intimacy. If they're not telling their spouse, then I assume they have good reasons not to. I try to offer some sort of reasonable support to them.

By all means offer help - but it should be to fix the problem or to make the separation.
There is no excuse whatsoever to go cheating in a marriage.



LadyPact -> RE: Dom is different (6/19/2013 4:25:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
I've been on these boards now for a long time, and I've tracked the extra-marital threads. There is a knee-jerk reaction to judge the "cheater" and call the person a liar and a scoundrel. Extra-marital thread participants are often unmarried, divorced, and inexperienced in LT relationships. A lack of experience and empathy results in black-and-white thinking and emotional projection.

My view is that the married person often occupies a rather difficult, complicated position. If being "honest" will blow up the marriage, then it's rational and sound not to be that way. Avoiding divorce or acrimonious conflicts is also important in decision-making. We just don't know all the circumstances going on to make a judgement. But the judgments flow easily and with certainty from the marital-police squad.

My own view is that individuals remain individuals even if married. Life time contracts (such as marital vows) are impractical and often unworkable.

So, I tend to trust in the judgment of the married person and won't readily condemn them for seeking extra-marital intimacy. If they're not telling their spouse, then I assume they have good reasons not to. I try to offer some sort of reasonable support to them.


Yeah, I was kind of waiting for you to show up.

For what it's worth, you can't lay the above on Me. I've been married to MP over a decade. Due to his profession, I know exactly what it's like not to have a sexual/physical relationship while married. I've done self imposed celibacy, both while in a relationship and while without, and I'm here to tell you that a lack of sex isn't going to kill a person, nor is it worth the price of their character.

We'll have to agree to disagree that it isn't black or white. Cheating is a choice and a conscious one that that. It speaks directly to how much or little a person sees the concept of loyalty to the person that is supposed to be more important than all others.

What, exactly, do you define as a "good reason?" Hey, you could rub one out for the same sexual response that a person could throw their life mate under the bus for.
A couple of teaspoons of cum. In exchange for what? A spouse? Little people? The other person's spouse and little people?

You and I both know that it is entirely possible to have more than one partner in life. It doesn't have to cost integrity or lack of honesty.




tazzygirl -> RE: Dom is different (6/19/2013 6:28:16 PM)

quote:

I've been on these boards now for a long time, and I've tracked the extra-marital threads. There is a knee-jerk reaction to judge the "cheater" and call the person a liar and a scoundrel. Extra-marital thread participants are often unmarried, divorced, and inexperienced in LT relationships. A lack of experience and empathy results in black-and-white thinking and emotional projection.


Good thing I am not one of those, huh.

quote:

My view is that the married person often occupies a rather difficult, complicated position. If being "honest" will blow up the marriage, then it's rational and sound not to be that way. Avoiding divorce or acrimonious conflicts is also important in decision-making. We just don't know all the circumstances going on to make a judgement. But the judgments flow easily and with certainty from the marital-police squad.


Is that position one borne of greed?

quote:

My own view is that individuals remain individuals even if married. Life time contracts (such as marital vows) are impractical and often unworkable.


No doubt. Yet that individual made a promise they didnt have to make. As such, I feel no pity for them.

quote:

So, I tend to trust in the judgment of the married person and won't readily condemn them for seeking extra-marital intimacy.


Would you trust a thief with your wallet full of money?

quote:

If they're not telling their spouse, then I assume they have good reasons not to. I try to offer some sort of reasonable support to them.


Do the reasons matter?

Honestly, at the end of the day.... do the reasons matter? They are lying to someone. Would you accept them lying to you?



littlewonder -> RE: Dom is different (6/19/2013 6:45:34 PM)

quote:

Since you brought GOd into it, learn what the fruits are of a Christain, or practice what you preach on this forum. Kindness and understanding and love of others is on that list of fruits because many of your posts break covenants.


I said I believe in God, not that I am a Christian. I don't believe in Christ.

So as for me believing in God, no I haven't broken my Covenant with God because I have not broken his commandments.



littlewonder -> RE: Dom is different (6/19/2013 6:53:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


I've been on these boards now for a long time, and I've tracked the extra-marital threads. There is a knee-jerk reaction to judge the "cheater" and call the person a liar and a scoundrel. Extra-marital thread participants are often unmarried, divorced, and inexperienced in LT relationships. A lack of experience and empathy results in black-and-white thinking and emotional projection.

My view is that the married person often occupies a rather difficult, complicated position. If being "honest" will blow up the marriage, then it's rational and sound not to be that way. Avoiding divorce or acrimonious conflicts is also important in decision-making. We just don't know all the circumstances going on to make a judgement. But the judgments flow easily and with certainty from the marital-police squad.

My own view is that individuals remain individuals even if married. Life time contracts (such as marital vows) are impractical and often unworkable.

So, I tend to trust in the judgment of the married person and won't readily condemn them for seeking extra-marital intimacy. If they're not telling their spouse, then I assume they have good reasons not to. I try to offer some sort of reasonable support to them.





quote:


Extra-marital thread participants are often unmarried, divorced, and inexperienced in LT relationships. A lack of experience and empathy results in black-and-white thinking and emotional projection.


hhhmm...well, let's see. I'm not divorced. I'm widowed. I'm technically not unmarried because of that plus I was with my husband from the time we were both kids, childhood sweethearts and all and I've been with Master for over 7 years now...probably closer to 10 now. A lack of experience of what? Cheating Nope, been cheated on. How do I feel about him today? He's not a part of my life. That's what happens to people who deceive me. I walk away from them because my experience is do it once and you will do it again.

Now if someone wants to still see me as the bad person because I find cheaters to be despicable, I'm quite alright with that.



cloudboy -> RE: Dom is different (6/19/2013 7:12:04 PM)

I'm not going to get into a back-and-forth with the marital police. I don't expect to change your views or judgements. I just tend to view the hard liners as righteously inhumane and side myself more with the imperfect types who'd be stoned to death in more primitive societies.

As a married person myself, many years into it, my attitude is that my wife is as honest with me as possible. If she's dishonest with me, I see myself as part of the problem.

As for others, people say they want honesty, but in practice most don't want it. Spouses don't want to hear about how you are attracted to someone else. The institution of Marriage and the marital police help keep views narrow --- lifetime monogamy or divorce, "total honesty" or "you're a lying asshole." The values behind these strictures are more geared to providing children with a stable home and promoting household economic stability. Yet culturally, there's still the insane idea of marriage as a romantic institution.

Ugh, it's dispiriting to think about it. I hate weddings for this very reason. I regard them the same way others see funerals.



tazzygirl -> RE: Dom is different (6/19/2013 7:15:49 PM)

quote:

I'm not going to get into a back-and-forth with the marital police.


Something tells me you have something to hide.


quote:

As for others, people say they want honesty, but in practice most don't want it. Spouses don't want to hear about how you are attracted to someone else. Marriage and the marital police help keep views narrow --- lifetime monogamy or divorce, "total honesty" or "you're a lying asshole."


And you cant see the third alternative?



tazzygirl -> RE: Dom is different (6/19/2013 7:32:26 PM)

quote:

The institution of Marriage and the marital police help keep views narrow --- lifetime monogamy or divorce, "total honesty" or "you're a lying asshole."


Again, you dont see the alternative?



kalikshama -> RE: Dom is different (6/19/2013 7:51:39 PM)

quote:

The institution of Marriage and the marital police help keep views narrow --- lifetime monogamy or divorce, "total honesty" or "you're a lying asshole."


10 years into our 18 year marriage, my (now ex) husband and I discovered BDSM. I bought the Topping and Bottoming Books and then The Ethical Slut by the same authors and learned how much better I felt about myself when I practiced ethical, consensual non-monogamy versus lying and cheating.



TNDommeK -> RE: Dom is different (6/19/2013 8:22:17 PM)

This July will be a 15 year anniversary for me and Hubby. And in all my years I have never cheated or come close. Lying by omission is just as bad as telling a bold face lie. I promise if there is something that I wouldn't do in front of him, he would consider it cheating. And so would I.



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