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[Poll]

Poll: Edward Snowden hero or traitor


He is a Hero
  42% (17)
He is a Traitor
  20% (8)
He is something in between
  37% (15)


Total Votes : 40
(last vote on : 6/18/2013 7:07:55 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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RE: Poll: Edward Snowden hero or traitor - 6/16/2013 4:38:27 PM   
permbondagebabe


Posts: 9
Joined: 4/18/2013
Status: offline 		he is nuts as exactly that information isn't available.

he can't find jack on the net, he is misinformed and he has no clue nor analytical understanding.

(in reply to igor2003)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Poll: Edward Snowden hero or traitor - 6/16/2013 4:45:54 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

okay for the US government to break laws and foul the Constitution in the name of "fighting terrorism"?


What law have they broken... that is the point... this information gathering program was overseen by every member of congress and the appropriate judiciary. It is lawful and Constitutional...Now... the American people may decide they don't like it or want it we shall see.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to igor2003)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Poll: Edward Snowden hero or traitor - 6/16/2013 4:48:04 PM   
KittyDeVille


Posts: 37
Joined: 4/20/2012
Status: offline 		The USA has no right or jurisdiction in Europe. That alone makes it illegal.
Simple as that.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Poll: Edward Snowden hero or traitor - 6/16/2013 4:48:29 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

free speech is getting raped


How.... name any free speech that has been denied by this program.... name one person injured.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to KittyDeVille)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Poll: Edward Snowden hero or traitor - 6/16/2013 4:49:40 PM   
KittyDeVille


Posts: 37
Joined: 4/20/2012
Status: offline 		And, a law doesnt make it just or moral....and then we start the circulair reasoning from you again.

I made myself and my opinion clear. And I know when I am wasting my energy.

(in reply to KittyDeVille)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Poll: Edward Snowden hero or traitor - 6/16/2013 4:52:25 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

The USA has no right or jurisdiction in Europe. That alone makes it illegal


What are they doing in Europe but gathering information freely available ...broadcasted over the airways and collating it and passing it along to the appropriate authorities here and overseas.

Butch



_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to KittyDeVille)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Poll: Edward Snowden hero or traitor - 6/16/2013 4:54:38 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

And, a law doesnt make it just or moral....and then we start the circulair reasoning from you again.


You have not explained to me yet how gathering information is immoral. Information is information it either is or is not...nothing moral or immoral about it... It is what it is.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 6/16/2013 4:55:04 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to KittyDeVille)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Poll: Edward Snowden hero or traitor - 6/16/2013 4:56:11 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

The USA has no right or jurisdiction in Europe. That alone makes it illegal


What are they doing in Europe but gathering information freely available ...broadcasted over the airways and collating it and passing it along to the appropriate authorities here and overseas.

Butch




No thats not what they are doing in Europe. They are asking internet based companies to provide information on private communications.

My email, say to you, is not public nor broadcast, nor freely available.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Poll: Edward Snowden hero or traitor - 6/16/2013 4:58:21 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		I'm off to a fathers day celebration so I will not be able to continue the debate for awhile... it was fun but I hope to have even more fun for the next few hours.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Poll: Edward Snowden hero or traitor - 6/16/2013 5:01:55 PM   
KittyDeVille


Posts: 37
Joined: 4/20/2012
Status: offline 		Come on, you must be kidding me. Is this how you discuss things ?
Often people take a stand for or against something, because they would lose or gain a certain value or vision of their core believe system.
I know what I could gain or lose, if I would take your view.
What do you have to lose or gain by taking no critical view at your own government ?
(and I dont need or want an answer, your point is circulairly clear....I like circles, but not in a discussion)

Goodevening

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Poll: Edward Snowden hero or traitor - 6/16/2013 5:03:58 PM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

And, a law doesnt make it just or moral....and then we start the circulair reasoning from you again.


You have not explained to me yet how gathering information is immoral. Information is information it either is or is not...nothing moral or immoral about it... It is what it is.

Butch


Well, Hitler passed a "law" that "The Final Solution" was the way for Germany to go. Was that moral? Hardly.

How about a law, banning abortion? Many here would find that to be "immoral".

How about we pass a law making sure that homosexual couples can never enjoy the benefit of "marriage"? Immoral? Certainly. Just because a government does something doesn't mean that it is the right thing to do (or were you in favor of Bush II, going into Iraq?).

Applied knowledge is power and the government is sucking up as much knowledge as they can in violation of several of our rights. Now, don't get me wrong; the right to privacy was never specifically codified by the Bill of Rights but it certainly lives within each of those enumerated rights.

There was a time in this country (30 or 40 years ago) when any person that claimed the title of "Liberal" would be mortified by this kind of activity but, once again, it's about the letter, after the president's name.

It truly surprises me, Butch, that you're on this side of this argument.



Peace and comfort,



Michael

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Poll: Edward Snowden hero or traitor - 6/16/2013 5:05:57 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		http://www.mediaite.com/online/breaking-snowden-reveals-british-government-spied-on-officials-phone-calls-emails-during-g20-summit/

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Poll: Edward Snowden hero or traitor - 6/16/2013 5:06:17 PM   
permbondagebabe


Posts: 9
Joined: 4/18/2013
Status: offline 		he simply doesn't get it.

just because i use a service like postal service, doesn't mean they have the right to read my mail.
if that's on paper or electronically.

plus in Europe they are much more sensitive when it comes to privacy as published today in "Die Welt" online edition.

(in reply to KittyDeVille)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Poll: Edward Snowden hero or traitor - 6/16/2013 5:07:22 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Politesub you do not know...and neither do I exactly how and in what manner information is gathered. If they are voluntarily giving up info then it is your institutions not ours at fault would you not say?

There is much debate in America about what constitutes privacy and I'm sure world wide as well and it may be outside the direction of this thread and deserves a separate one. I think it would make a great discussion. For instance... how much privacy can be demanded when you put information on a public network. Knowing that it is not secure by any universal law or treaty. It would be akin to me screaming my private business out the door and expecting my neighbors not to hear and if they do expecting them to forget what I said....if you get my drift. It certainly would not be illegal for them to listen and act if they deemed it necessary.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 6/16/2013 5:11:59 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Poll: Edward Snowden hero or traitor - 6/16/2013 5:10:07 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Justin Amash
Any congressman who asserts that people don't have a reasonable expectation of privacy in their personal phone records should make his own records publicly available.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Poll: Edward Snowden hero or traitor - 6/16/2013 5:10:56 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

he simply doesn't get it.


No need to change my beliefs or make me get it...This is not the purpose of this thread...nor am I trying to change yours. I have just been answering to your contentions as a debate. It is my duty as the thread originator. Let others decide for themselves if there is any worth to yours or my statements.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 6/16/2013 5:15:51 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to permbondagebabe)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Poll: Edward Snowden hero or traitor - 6/16/2013 5:14:56 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Be sure you know what you are talking about when you say phone records...remember they are not listening to your conversations... just your meta data.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Poll: Edward Snowden hero or traitor - 6/16/2013 5:53:47 PM   
erieangel


Posts: 2237
Joined: 6/19/2011
Status: offline 		As long as the government is possibly listening into phone conversations, looking at emails, etc., that makes my job as a mental health professional hard. How am I supposed to relay vital a private medical information via telephone or email if there is a chance it can be intercepted by the government? Right there, the NSA and possibly other governmental agencies are violating HIPPA regulations. All in the name of the "war on terror". So I might have a client who might, just might know somebody who knows somebody who might be a terrorist. Or I might actually have a client with direct ties to terrorism. Does that give the government the right to go snooping into all of my clients' records? And into all of my emails?


(in reply to KittyDeVille)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Poll: Edward Snowden hero or traitor - 6/16/2013 6:12:23 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Here in the US we had a Constitution.

(in reply to erieangel)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Poll: Edward Snowden hero or traitor - 6/16/2013 7:22:42 PM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

Here in the US we had a Constitution.



I just wanted to nominate this post for some kind of award for using the correct tense of the verb!

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 60
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