RE: 20 weeks abortion bill passes the HOR (Full Version)

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jlf1961 -> RE: 20 weeks abortion bill passes the HOR (6/23/2013 9:26:13 PM)

Alright, I am pro life (with mediating factors,) but, life does not begin at fertilization, as for implantation, it does not begin there, since an implanted can still spontaneously abort for a number of reasons, all related to the health of the mother.

Let me explain, my last wife tested positive on a home pregnancy test, two pregnancy tests administered by her doctor, and yet two months later, she was not pregnant. We were told that a number of things dealing strictly with the mothers nutrition, general health, stress and other factors could lead to the body rejecting the implanted embryo.

So I would say that life begins at the third week of pregnancy, when the fetus develops a brain and brain stem.

Just trying to complicate the issue even more.




tazzygirl -> RE: 20 weeks abortion bill passes the HOR (6/23/2013 9:45:17 PM)

You havent complicated it at all. There is also a condition called an incompetent cervix, for example. The womb simply wont hold a growing fetus because the cervix is weak. Consider it another design flaw. Then we have pregnancies that implant in the Fallopian tubes... or even in the abdominal wall. Again, design flaws. Ectopic pregnancies are not even known until, on average, 7 - 8 weeks.

According to the Mayo Clinic....

Week 5: The embryonic period begins

Fetal development three weeks after conception

The fifth week of pregnancy, or the third week after conception, marks the beginning of the embryonic period. This is when the baby's brain, spinal cord, heart and other organs begin to form.


Week 7: Baby's head develops

Fetal development five weeks after conception
Seven weeks into your pregnancy, or five weeks after conception, your baby's brain and face are rapidly developing. Tiny nostrils become visible, and the eye lenses begin to form. The arm buds that sprouted last week now take on the shape of paddles.

By the end of this week, your baby might be a little bigger than the top of a pencil eraser.


The brain isnt fully developed untila round the 16th week.

Here is an important part about life.... we have to breathe.

weeks 6 to 16

The developing lung resembles an endocrine gland at this time. By the end of this period, all of the major lung elements, except those required for gas exchange (e.g. alveoli), have appeared. Respiration is not possible during this phase, and fetuses born during this period are unable to survive.

weeks 16 to 26

The lumina of the bronchi enlarge and lung tissue becomes highly vascularized during the canalicular period. By week 24, respiratory bronchioles and alveolar ducts have developed from the terminal bronchioles. Respiration is possible towards the end of this period, but few fetuses born during this time will survive.

week 26 to birth

The important blood-air barrier is established during the terminal saccular period. Specialized cells of the respiratory epithelium appear at this time, including type I alveolar cells across which gas exchange occurs, and type II alveolar cells which secrete pulmonary surfactant. This surfactant is important in reducing the surface tension at the air-alveolar surface, allowing expansion of the terminal saccules. During this time, the lungs are rock-like and will sink if placed in water but will expand after the first breath, a trait which is used to determine if babies were born alive.[4]


Without the ability to breathe... gas exchange... life can not be sustained.




jlf1961 -> RE: 20 weeks abortion bill passes the HOR (6/23/2013 10:14:38 PM)

Well, as I said, I am pro life with the belief that some abortions are necessary.




tazzygirl -> RE: 20 weeks abortion bill passes the HOR (6/23/2013 10:16:51 PM)

I am pro-choice.... a tempered choice.




jlf1961 -> RE: 20 weeks abortion bill passes the HOR (6/23/2013 10:22:20 PM)

Does giving a sub the choice between duct tape, hand cuffs, rope or leather restraints make me pro choice?




tazzygirl -> RE: 20 weeks abortion bill passes the HOR (6/23/2013 10:23:17 PM)

No no no.. choice would be.. restrained or not restrained.




jlf1961 -> RE: 20 weeks abortion bill passes the HOR (6/23/2013 10:53:26 PM)

unrestrained, interesting concept...

You mean kind of like when I let the dogs outside off a leash?




tazzygirl -> RE: 20 weeks abortion bill passes the HOR (6/23/2013 10:55:31 PM)

Only if you dont have a fence.




jlf1961 -> RE: 20 weeks abortion bill passes the HOR (6/23/2013 11:04:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Only if you dont have a fence.



Three of my dogs will stay close without a leash. The others go in the back yard.


Back on topic, even though I am pro life, I do not think that the government has the right to legislate what a woman can and cannot do with her body. Especially since we do not live in a Theocracy.




tazzygirl -> RE: 20 weeks abortion bill passes the HOR (6/23/2013 11:09:53 PM)

quote:

Back on topic, even though I am pro life, I do not think that the government has the right to legislate what a woman can and cannot do with her body. Especially since we do not live in a Theocracy.


And, as pro-choice as I am, I cant agree with that in totality. I do feel the government has the right to make the determination that, once reaching a certain point, abortion, for the sake of convenience, becomes murder. That point is viability. If science can show that they can push that age back further, then my thinking goes back with science.




jlf1961 -> RE: 20 weeks abortion bill passes the HOR (6/23/2013 11:16:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

Back on topic, even though I am pro life, I do not think that the government has the right to legislate what a woman can and cannot do with her body. Especially since we do not live in a Theocracy.


And, as pro-choice as I am, I cant agree with that in totality. I do feel the government has the right to make the determination that, once reaching a certain point, abortion, for the sake of convenience, becomes murder. That point is viability. If science can show that they can push that age back further, then my thinking goes back with science.



That part I agree with, but as for the rest, they should not be able to legislate what a woman can and cannot do. It kind goes back to a congressman maybe a congressional candidate that wanted to legislate sexual positions.




tazzygirl -> RE: 20 weeks abortion bill passes the HOR (6/23/2013 11:23:55 PM)

quote:

That part I agree with, but as for the rest, they should not be able to legislate what a woman can and cannot do. It kind goes back to a congressman maybe a congressional candidate that wanted to legislate sexual positions.


A Constitutional Amendment, the Kama Sutra as the guidebook.

Tell me, which one is the position typically taken in the men's rest room?

[8D]




jlf1961 -> RE: 20 weeks abortion bill passes the HOR (6/23/2013 11:29:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

That part I agree with, but as for the rest, they should not be able to legislate what a woman can and cannot do. It kind goes back to a congressman maybe a congressional candidate that wanted to legislate sexual positions.


A Constitutional Amendment, the Kama Sutra as the guidebook.

Tell me, which one is the position typically taken in the men's rest room?

[8D]



I have no clue.




MariaB -> RE: 20 weeks abortion bill passes the HOR (6/24/2013 2:54:19 AM)


'Without the ability to breathe... gas exchange... life can not be sustained.'
What are you saying here? Are you saying that a prem that doesn't have the ability to breath on its own should be classed as an abortion if the mother so wishes?




Lucylastic -> RE: 20 weeks abortion bill passes the HOR (6/24/2013 4:10:38 AM)

Thats a hell of a stretch...wow




Lucylastic -> RE: 20 weeks abortion bill passes the HOR (6/24/2013 4:11:45 AM)

[image]https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/1044655_569562459762063_2014505701_n.png[/image]




tazzygirl -> RE: 20 weeks abortion bill passes the HOR (6/24/2013 8:23:44 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB


'Without the ability to breathe... gas exchange... life can not be sustained.'
What are you saying here? Are you saying that a prem that doesn't have the ability to breath on its own should be classed as an abortion if the mother so wishes?


Where the fuck did you get that from?

Are you sure you have medical experience?




DomKen -> RE: 20 weeks abortion bill passes the HOR (6/24/2013 9:40:56 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB


'Without the ability to breathe... gas exchange... life can not be sustained.'
What are you saying here? Are you saying that a prem that doesn't have the ability to breath on its own should be classed as an abortion if the mother so wishes?

No. She was stating a basic fact.




MariaB -> RE: 20 weeks abortion bill passes the HOR (6/24/2013 9:43:31 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB


'Without the ability to breathe... gas exchange... life can not be sustained.'
What are you saying here? Are you saying that a prem that doesn't have the ability to breath on its own should be classed as an abortion if the mother so wishes?


Where the fuck did you get that from?

Are you sure you have medical experience?




Lets just put this down to language barriers. I asked because I clearly didn't understand what you said. Your reaction is so aggressive but then I've always thought of you as an overly aggressive person with too much time on your hands. Unlike others on these forums who climb up your back passage, Ill do no such thing.

To accuse me of lying on a personal level takes the biscuit!! You want to use the lowest form of bullying to have your say?, go right ahead, its just fallen on deaf ears.







tazzygirl -> RE: 20 weeks abortion bill passes the HOR (6/24/2013 9:53:25 AM)

Pft.... no..

First, if you dont understand, instead of taking the worse case scenario and ascribing that to my meaning, you should have asked. If you dont understand, dont attack. The aggressiveness on my part is a result of the misunderstanding on your part, and the attempt to demean me by making such an asinine assumption.

Second, I would expect someone with a bit of neonatal background to understand what is meant by gas exchange in order to breathe.

Whats the leading cause of death in premature infants?




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