RE: Slave Rights

RE: Slave Rights (Full Version)

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bandit25 -> RE: Slave Rights (6/27/2006 4:08:18 AM)
Loki is right. It depends upon what the two negotiate. Despite another thread, I understand why anyone would stay in a relationship that does not fulfill her/him, slave or not.

peterK50 -> RE: Slave Rights (6/27/2006 5:03:07 AM)
Slave rights end where Masters-Mistresses responsibilities begin. That's why we're slaves. Choose carefully my brothers & sisters.

shivvy -> RE: Slave Rights (6/27/2006 5:15:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BitaTruble I had the right to waive all my rights.. and so I did. There is the law of the land and the law of the Master. I follow the law of the Master who follows 'most' of the laws of the land. These days I'm in to lefts as I have no needs of rights. Celeste lol - That's funny[;)]

Wildfleurs -> RE: Slave Rights (6/27/2006 5:20:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: michaelGA2 i was just talking to a friend from CM and the topic popped up about slave rights. i was always told a slave has only two imalienable rights: 1. the right to beg for a collar 2. the right to beg for release is my information incorrect? The most succinct way I can put it for us is that I have whatever rights my owner grants me. C~

MasterFireMaam -> RE: Slave Rights (6/27/2006 7:06:19 AM)
You're going to get as many answers as there are people since this boils down to an opinion question. In the end, it's all about what is negotiated. Depending on that, you'll get a dichotomy of answers from "they only have the right to leave" to "they have basic human rights" to a more relaxed arrangement that includes privacy and ownership of property. And, let's not go into the whole sub vs slave definition debate! Master Fire

TxBadMan -> RE: Slave Rights (6/27/2006 8:31:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: michaelGA2 i was just talking to a friend from CM and the topic popped up about slave rights. i was always told a slave has only two imalienable rights: 1. the right to beg for a collar 2. the right to beg for release is my information incorrect? My girls have the right to say no to me; as long as they understand that in doing so, I have the right to terminate the relationship. My girls have the right to walk away from the relationship; as long as they understand that by in doing so, they will get no second chance. My girls have the right to openly defy me; as long as they understand that in doing so, I have the right to punish as I see fit, or to terminate the relationship. My girls have the right to speak up, respectfully, and request that we discuss something that is bothering them; in doing so, they will earn the right to speak freely when and wherever they feel the need. My girls have the right to use a safe-word; I encourage it with them. This is not a right that I have given them either; it is one that they came to the relationship with. My girls have the right to be happy. If they are not finding that with me, they have the right to say so; we then sit down, discuss where the problems lie, and try to solve them. If they can not be solved, they have the right to leave the relationship, knowing that my respect for them is still intact. My girls have all the rights that any human being has. They are able to excercise them at any time; as long as they also accept responsibility for any action that may occur.

SaphireLynn -> RE: Slave Rights (6/27/2006 8:40:29 AM)
a slave is no more than a piece of property... now he/she can leave the relationship legally as slavery is not allowed in the USA but in a D/s relation it is the same as it was in the Civil War days.

ownedgirlie -> RE: Slave Rights (6/27/2006 8:41:52 AM)
(Fast Reply) My rights are those which he has chosen to give me. I'm with Celeste on this one. Master and I do not discuss rights, nor lack of rights. We are simply what we are. To those who say even if it is my reality, it is still a fantasy, continue defining others by your dictionary; it matters not. Perhaps it is fantasy to those who do not comprehend it - I can certainly understand that.

mistoferin -> RE: Slave Rights (6/27/2006 8:43:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SaphireLynn in a D/s relation it is the same as it was in the Civil War days. A D/s relationship is not the same as an M/s relationship and does not always have a slave as one of its participants edited to add that even an M/s relationship is nothing like it was in Civil War days...

txpet -> RE: Slave Rights (6/27/2006 8:44:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TxBadMan quote: ORIGINAL: michaelGA2 i was just talking to a friend from CM and the topic popped up about slave rights. i was always told a slave has only two imalienable rights: 1. the right to beg for a collar 2. the right to beg for release is my information incorrect? My girls have the right to say no to me; as long as they understand that in doing so, I have the right to terminate the relationship. My girls have the right to walk away from the relationship; as long as they understand that by in doing so, they will get no second chance. My girls have the right to openly defy me; as long as they understand that in doing so, I have the right to punish as I see fit, or to terminate the relationship. My girls have the right to speak up, respectfully, and request that we discuss something that is bothering them; in doing so, they will earn the right to speak freely when and wherever they feel the need. My girls have the right to use a safe-word; I encourage it with them. This is not a right that I have given them either; it is one that they came to the relationship with. My girls have the right to be happy. If they are not finding that with me, they have the right to say so; we then sit down, discuss where the problems lie, and try to solve them. If they can not be solved, they have the right to leave the relationship, knowing that my respect for them is still intact. My girls have all the rights that any human being has. They are able to excercise them at any time; as long as they also accept responsibility for any action that may occur. ::smile:: Pretty much what i was trying to say from the "other side" .

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Slave Rights (6/27/2006 8:44:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie My rights are those which he has chosen to give me. I'm with Celeste on this one. Master and I do not discuss rights, nor lack of rights. We are simply what we are. To those who say even if it is my reality, it is still a fantasy, continue defining others by your dictionary; it matters not. Perhaps it is fantasy to those who do not comprehend it - I can certainly understand that. I agree completely. Granted I think healthy relationships involve the slave having general privileges that most people in the world have and consider rights- privilege to make phone calls, visit family, be productive with their lives in general, ask questions when necessary, etc. But it would be a grave mistake to confuse privileges with rights and one needs to know exactly how they define each of them before entering into a commitment.

txpet -> RE: Slave Rights (6/27/2006 8:49:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie My rights are those which he has chosen to give me. I'm with Celeste on this one. Master and I do not discuss rights, nor lack of rights. We are simply what we are. To those who say even if it is my reality, it is still a fantasy, continue defining others by your dictionary; it matters not. Perhaps it is fantasy to those who do not comprehend it - I can certainly understand that. I agree completely. Granted I think healthy relationships involve the slave having general privileges that most people in the world have and consider rights- privilege to make phone calls, visit family, be productive with their lives in general, ask questions when necessary, etc. But it would be a grave mistake to confuse privileges with rights and one needs to know exactly how they define each of them before entering into a commitment. ::smile:: Exactly why the term "rights" is where i get stuck. If "rights" can be taken away and/or curbed, then these things can be called "rights" but if "rights" are concrete then there is no such thing.

amayos -> RE: Slave Rights (6/27/2006 8:53:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: michaelGA2 i was just talking to a friend from CM and the topic popped up about slave rights. i was always told a slave has only two imalienable rights: 1. the right to beg for a collar 2. the right to beg for release is my information incorrect? In my mind, the following is what an owner is obligated by mere pragmatism to concede a slave: • Shelter • Adequate food & water • Sufficient sleep • Base discipline All beyond this hinges upon the owner's preference. A slave has no rights, but privileges granted by its owner—which can be taken away just as easily as given.

ownedgirlie -> RE: Slave Rights (6/27/2006 9:02:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie My rights are those which he has chosen to give me. I'm with Celeste on this one. Master and I do not discuss rights, nor lack of rights. We are simply what we are. To those who say even if it is my reality, it is still a fantasy, continue defining others by your dictionary; it matters not. Perhaps it is fantasy to those who do not comprehend it - I can certainly understand that. I agree completely. Granted I think healthy relationships involve the slave having general privileges that most people in the world have and consider rights- privilege to make phone calls, visit family, be productive with their lives in general, ask questions when necessary, etc. But it would be a grave mistake to confuse privileges with rights and one needs to know exactly how they define each of them before entering into a commitment. I guess the word "rights" just never came into discussion with he and I. It isn't important - I am allowed what he allows me and it works for me. Be they privileges or rights, I am allowed certain things which elevate my life. He and I don't discuss words, definitions, or what they are called...they just are.

Mercnbeth -> RE: Slave Rights (6/27/2006 9:03:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: michaelGA2 i was just talking to a friend from CM and the topic popped up about slave rights. i was always told a slave has only two imalienable rights: 1. the right to beg for a collar 2. the right to beg for release is my information incorrect? it is this slave's opinion that it would depend upon both parties perception of the slave's role and definition of the word "slave". in the context of an M/s relationship this slave understands it to be more like indentured servitude(Revolutionary War era) than of involuntary slavery(Civil War era type, et al.), depending upon the parties involved and the negotiations that take place before the service commences. To date, this slave has only been made aware of one person who claims their submission/power was "taken" and not "given" and she has already given her opinion here on this thread. and as far as rights go, at least here in the US, as free as we like to think we are, we do NOT have the legal right to become someone's slave, even if we want to.

kittinSol -> RE: Slave Rights (6/27/2006 9:05:17 AM)
How can it be slavery if there are negotiating terms involved? I am having a real bother figuring this slavery stuff out.

ownedgirlie -> RE: Slave Rights (6/27/2006 9:08:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth and as far as rights go, at least here in the US, as free as we like to think we are, we do NOT have the legal right to become someone's slave, even if we want to. That goes without saying....BUT...we can willingly give ourselves over to another and thus decide from that point forward, to abide by his/her/their rule. For some, the heart is compelled so strongly they truly do not feel any other options but to submit and obey lovingly and true. Laws or no laws, they are enslaved.

Mercnbeth -> RE: Slave Rights (6/27/2006 9:24:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth and as far as rights go, at least here in the US, as free as we like to think we are, we do NOT have the legal right to become someone's slave, even if we want to. That goes without saying....BUT...we can willingly give ourselves over to another and thus decide from that point forward, to abide by his/her/their rule. For some, the heart is compelled so strongly they truly do not feel any other options but to submit and obey lovingly and true. Laws or no laws, they are enslaved. this slave wholeheartedly agrees, owned!!!! the foregoing was just an observation this slave wanted to interject...all this discussion about the "rights" of a slave got this slave thinking....really, we who consider ourselves to be slaves have no "legal" stake to the claim--as was mentioned by a few of the posters... the idea of designating "rights" to a slave in the context of the laws of the land are always going to be at oppostion to the laws of Master, unless we somehow magically gain the right to enter into a Master/slave relationship. therefore, as a group devoid of legal recognition, we have only the rights our owners allow us to have, unless we wake up one morning and decide that the law of the land is more important than Master's law or our spiritual beliefs, and we, as others have previously stated, have no "right" to even call ourselves "slave", rendering this entire thread pointless.

IronBear -> RE: Slave Rights (6/27/2006 10:16:49 AM)
A Gorean slave or potential slave who has approached me, will at the beginning have several lengthy discussions in which I need to know her percieved limits, and her understanding of slavery in a Gorean Home. let's assume for the point of this discussion that we are both happy and she has satisified Neets and passed the Sasha Test, I will allow her to beg a House Collar. She will understand that at the time of collaring she will have no rights what so ever. As part of the collering ceremony, I will formally grant her the basic rights of begging release, not having to do anything illegal, to discuss anything with me at the apropriate time. To ask questions at the apropriate times, the right to breath and live, the right to eat (when and what I decide ~ usually fits I with whet we are all doing and available food and including special diets for health reasins). The right to wear clothes (within the home) is a privilage which is earned and not a right. Limits and safe words are not a right. I will set her limits and if we are doing BDSM things, I may allow her a safe word untill I have established the specific max tollerance fior that activity.(the safe word is for the protection of my property). Under Law she has all the right of any other person in Aussie, I simply reaffirm them in a way that there is a jointless meld of Lifestyle and compliance (mostly) with the laws of society. In all matters of her behaviour and being I take ultimate respoonsibility....

BreakMeShakeMe -> RE: Slave Rights (6/27/2006 10:44:12 AM)
[sm=argue.gif] [sm=banghead.gif] [sm=m23.gif]

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