RE: Evils of colonialism and 'post-colonialism'.

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RE: Evils of colonialism and 'post-colonialism'. - 6/25/2013 4:30:30 AM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

even though bin laden died only 4 months later and even though he publically announced he had not a damn thing to do with 911.

I know you needed your fucking oil well.

Oil in Afghanistan ? Your other vile claims about 9/11 have been shown to be false so often it is hardly worth my time doing so again.

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RE: Evils of colonialism and 'post-colonialism'. - 6/25/2013 4:55:12 AM

Rule

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Yes, oil in Afghanistan. I have been told by an Afghan that they have oil.

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RE: Evils of colonialism and 'post-colonialism'. - 6/25/2013 6:03:46 AM

Hillwilliam

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

Yes, oil in Afghanistan. I have been told by an Afghan that they have oil.

http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?c=af&v=88

2001 - 2010, zero oil produced.

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RE: Evils of colonialism and 'post-colonialism'. - 6/25/2013 6:20:21 AM

MrBukani

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The palestinians invaded 'their' territory around 1150 BC. The jews were already there in 1500 BC.

So again my question is to anyone who cares to answer.

By wich rights can someone be called local and original to their land?

The kurds got no land at all. But I don't hear anybody fighting for their right.
By general definition the kurdish PKK are terrorists. Are they really?
If you want equality it should be for all. Not just palestinians. That's the travesty of every discussion the jews are blamed again for the shite goin on.

PS I don't discriminate with hate. I hate all motherfuckers equally, doesn't matter if you are an arab, a jew, a turk, a jap, an american gringo or a dutch german.
BTW I'm a portugese jewish german dutchie. I like it in the mix.

< Message edited by MrBukani -- 6/25/2013 6:30:31 AM >

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RE: Evils of colonialism and 'post-colonialism'. - 6/25/2013 7:20:51 AM

Real0ne

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

even though bin laden died only 4 months later and even though he publically announced he had not a damn thing to do with 911.

I know you needed your fucking oil well.

Oil in Afghanistan ? Your other vile claims about 9/11 have been shown to be false so often it is hardly worth my time doing so again.

when your back is pinned against the wall create and argue against your own strawman claims, some shit never changes with you.

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RE: Evils of colonialism and 'post-colonialism'. - 6/25/2013 7:30:03 AM

Real0ne

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

The palestinians invaded 'their' territory around 1150 BC. The jews were already there in 1500 BC.

So again my question is to anyone who cares to answer.

By wich rights can someone be called local and original to their land?

The kurds got no land at all. But I don't hear anybody fighting for their right.
By general definition the kurdish PKK are terrorists. Are they really?
If you want equality it should be for all. Not just palestinians. That's the travesty of every discussion the jews are blamed again for the shite goin on.

PS I don't discriminate with hate. I hate all motherfuckers equally, doesn't matter if you are an arab, a jew, a turk, a jap, an american gringo or a dutch german.
BTW I'm a portugese jewish german dutchie. I like it in the mix.

the problem isnt people moving about on the planet and establishing themselves somewhere. land plots etc were typically drawn out on ones bible and respected which is why occupying forces always burned any records, like the war of 1812 in america when the brits after showing them who is boss came back and spanked their naughty colonies for making the original 13th amendment that said no brits in office. Hence with one exception ALL el' prazzy dante's have been brits decent. Long live the king!

The problem is who gets to collect the taxes and extort money from the inhabitants. These are the "We the People" who set up shop under the auspices of government and create a state or colony take your pick, one is directly managed the other by umbilical cord.

< Message edited by Real0ne -- 6/25/2013 7:32:37 AM >

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RE: Evils of colonialism and 'post-colonialism'. - 6/25/2013 7:46:53 AM

Real0ne

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

Yes, oil in Afghanistan. I have been told by an Afghan that they have oil.

the taliban rejected their running a pipeline and of course the british being the shining example of civilization called upon the indebted colonies for support to civilize afghanastan and force them to accept a civilized pipeline the same way they forced opuim usage upon the chinese.

by civilized negotiations at the end of the barrel of a gun, same way taxes are enforced here in lower canada

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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RE: Evils of colonialism and 'post-colonialism'. - 6/25/2013 7:48:14 AM

vincentML

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

Yes, oil in Afghanistan. I have been told by an Afghan that they have oil.

Yesssss . . . oil in Afghanistan! Also lovely beach resorts and girls clad in revealing bikini burkas. Also the Netherlands has one Afghani bullshitter

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RE: Evils of colonialism and 'post-colonialism'. - 6/25/2013 7:54:42 AM

Rule

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Afghanistan finds new oil deposits

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RE: Evils of colonialism and 'post-colonialism'. - 6/25/2013 8:00:22 AM

Real0ne

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wow good thing the brits and their colonies got there just in the nick of time to claim the underlying mineral rights and set up a government to protect them. keep them nasty aborigines at bay while the country is drained of its resources.

“”We are the Borg. Lower your shields and surrender your ships. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile.”

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"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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RE: Evils of colonialism and 'post-colonialism'. - 6/25/2013 8:14:03 AM

vincentML

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

Afghanistan finds new oil deposits

The discovery in 2010 hardly explains our troop movement into the country in 2001, does it? Irrelevant.

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RE: Evils of colonialism and 'post-colonialism'. - 6/25/2013 8:16:55 AM

SimplyMichael

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So, who thinks Europeans should return all stolen land back to the natives?

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RE: Evils of colonialism and 'post-colonialism'. - 6/25/2013 8:19:07 AM

SimplyMichael

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quote:

ORIGINAL: YN

Some of the worst "ex-colonies" are "British" as well, so your point is?

The brits created the best ex colonies, india for example, hong kong, the US, and others. It would be a good midel for restoring failed states.

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RE: Evils of colonialism and 'post-colonialism'. - 6/25/2013 8:19:53 AM

Real0ne

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I thought the going philosophy was "we got away with it".

How convenient.

steal the land long enough thats its impossible to judicially correct the matter.

the indians should be allowed to collect all the taxes retroactively on all land stolen.

so you gonna apologize for crown atrocites because they are 200 years old?

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"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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RE: Evils of colonialism and 'post-colonialism'. - 6/25/2013 8:20:41 AM

Phydeaux

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quote:

Not a word of your post entitles any one in the West to anything. Especially those land thieving war criminals in the Israeli Gov, whose innumerable crimes and atrocities, you are so fond of defending.

You have outlined preferences, not a single one of which entitles you to anything.

Other countries, especially Palestine, belong to other people and you do NOT have any right of entry invasion possession annexation or anything else unless expressly invited to do, in full and free consent by the locals.

When ppl stop deluding themselves with their false senses of moral superiority, (which, as the OP demonstrates, is blatant hypocrisy or self delusion or both) perhaps one of the foundations of colonialism will be reduandant.

Snicker.

Of course my posts don't 'entitle' me to anything. Only an idiot believes in 'entitlements'.
The 'entitlements' we have in the west are a product of a system of law. That law is upheld by power. (Same as any other power structure).

As human morality often fails, (no more so for one group than another) power is abused.

As for 'moral superiority' - well, your argument is absurd on its face. No group is more 'moral' than another.
That said - all government is instituted by man. They are frameworks by which we try to safeguard our rights and liberties. Monarchies subject the populace to the vagaries of a king or despot. Communism in its "true" form always fails to statist power oligarchical despotism. (ie., the communist party of china has nothing in common with the communism of Marx or Engel).

Muslim culture puts concerns of state under the concerns of religion (uma) and hence subrogates the rights of minorities. Subrogates the rights of women. In some places encourages suicide bombing. Muslim nations usuallly fracture along tribal lines as well.

Democracies, in contrast, provide a peaceful way for the political process to occur. Are they subject to abuse. Absolutely. Are they instable - absolutely. Can they devolve into statism. Absolutely.

The good news for you tweakabelle is that The United States right now is in a period of serious decline due to the democrat policies. We are becoming less transparent, less subject to the rule of law, and less permeable to class migration.

Oh. And those "innumerable crimes and atrocities" are a perfect example. One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist. Frankly, the middle east is heading toward another conflict. Israel and the US should hope it occurs before Russia and Chinese power eclipse us further.

< Message edited by Phydeaux -- 6/25/2013 8:53:39 AM >

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RE: Evils of colonialism and 'post-colonialism'. - 6/25/2013 8:21:07 AM

Real0ne

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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

Afghanistan finds new oil deposits

The discovery in 2010 hardly explains our troop movement into the country in 2001, does it? Irrelevant.

you mean the "announcement" of the discovery? The discovery in 20 10? Pretty naive.

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"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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RE: Evils of colonialism and 'post-colonialism'. - 6/25/2013 8:24:15 AM

Rule

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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule
Afghanistan finds new oil deposits

The discovery in 2010 hardly explains our troop movement into the country in 2001, does it? Irrelevant.

I never said it did. I just confirmed that there is oil in Afghanistan.

_____________________________

"I tend to pay attention when Rule speaks" - Aswad

"You are sweet, kind, and ever so smart, Rule. You ALWAYS stretch my mind and make me think further than I might have on my own" - Duskypearls

Si vis pacem, para bellum.

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RE: Evils of colonialism and 'post-colonialism'. - 6/25/2013 10:18:14 AM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

Yes, oil in Afghanistan. I have been told by an Afghan that they have oil.

the taliban rejected their running a pipeline and of course the british being the shining example of civilization called upon the indebted colonies for support to civilize afghanastan and force them to accept a civilized pipeline the same way they forced opuim usage upon the chinese.

by civilized negotiations at the end of the barrel of a gun, same way taxes are enforced here in lower canada

Laughable bullshit from you yet again. I wont ask for proof since you dont have any. Hillwilliams link kinda nails your lies.

Only a few idots think the UK can control US foreign policy, and none of them live in the UK...... go figure who I mean.

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RE: Evils of colonialism and 'post-colonialism'. - 6/25/2013 11:05:18 AM

SpanishMatMaster

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

quote:

ORIGINAL: SpanishMatMaster

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
Few would contest the idea that Israel is a client state of the Us.

We are speaking here about colonies. Not about supposed "client states". You change the terms.

And I know nobody mentally sane who would say that the USA and Israel have the same kind of relation as the USA and Afghanistan or Iraq, or as Israel and the Palestinian territories, which was the kind of relation mentioned in the OP.

So, you are missing the point.

Client states. Colonies. All are points on a continuum of tools of statecraft.

As "genocide" and "looking angry at somebody" are both part of a continuum of aggression. Or a fly and a planet are both part of a continuum of size.

So... you missed the point. As simple as that. Now, do you want to say something about COLONIES or are you going to continue insisting that looking angry at somebody is basically as licit as genocide, and a fly is basically as big as a planet?

Best regards.

< Message edited by SpanishMatMaster -- 6/25/2013 11:10:51 AM >

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RE: Evils of colonialism and 'post-colonialism'. - 6/25/2013 11:41:55 AM

Phydeaux

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpanishMatMaster

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
Few would contest the idea that Israel is a client state of the Us.

We are speaking here about colonies. Not about supposed "client states". You change the terms.

quote:

Client states. Colonies. All are points on a continuum of tools of statecraft.

As "genocide" and "looking angry at somebody" are both part of a continuum of aggression. Or a fly and a planet are both part of a continuum of size.

So... you missed the point. As simple as that. Now, do you want to say something about COLONIES or are you going to continue insisting that looking angry at somebody is basically as licit as genocide, and a fly is basically as big as a planet?

Best regards.

Factually you are wrong. Lets refresh the original post shall we:

long, antiwestern quote followed by:

quote:

Thus concludes the distinguished correspondent Robert Fisk's [bold]searing analysis of Western meddling intervention and theft in non-Western countries[/bold], aka the great evil of colonialism, still ongoing as I write in Afghanistan, Iraq Palestine and many African countries.

What will it take for the West to consign this monstrous evil to its past

So what we are talking about, by definition is Fisks analysis of 'western meddling intervention" and "theft". The original poster opined this was also known as colonialism. Nonetheless the topic was western intervention, of which client states are a valid instance.

Now you wish to quibble about the difference between colonialization and clientstates. Why you think the difference huge and material to the discussion I'm not sure.

Now, here are a few reviews about the distinguished columnist Robert Fiske.

For example here: http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=6&x_article=1518 where dozens of factual errors in Fisk's The Great War for Civilization

Or here: http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=6&x_journo=19
or here: http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=6&x_article=1667 Where the NY times columnist (hardly unrespected, hardly right wing) accuses fisk of an anti western bias" nearly to the exclusion of straight journalism"

dozens more can be found wth a casual search.

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