RE: Zimmerman Trial

Collarspace Discussion Forums

Home Login Search

RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE

Page: << < prev 42 43 [44] 45 46 next > >>

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 7/1/2013 10:11:08 AM

Raiikun

Posts: 2650
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

The judges outright made a point to say that his knees buckled and he wobbled, and so didn't have an avenue of retreat before the next attack.

There is a vast difference in obiter dicta and ratio decidendi. You should learn it.

It was pointed out at the outset that he did not have any need to retreat, let alone exhaustively.

It is meaningless in this case at present. It indicates nothing.

Except that an appellate court judge wrote that buckled knees was sufficient to have no avenue of reasonable retreat.

Which is all I originally asserted. Everything else is desperate deflection.

(in reply to mnottertail)

Profile

Post #: 861

RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 7/1/2013 10:12:33 AM

RacerJim

Posts: 1583
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Now before we go on and on... show me a law where it says you cannot follow someone... then show me another law where you can't ask someone what are you doing here... then show me another law that says you have to run before you can defend yourself if attacked.

In the sane parts of the country, where the NRA isn't allowed to write laws, there is always a duty to retreat except when attacked in your own home.

In the insane parts of the country, where the liberals are allowed enact unconstitutional laws, there is a significantly higher possibility of being attacked in your own home.

(in reply to DomKen)

Profile

Post #: 862

RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 7/1/2013 10:14:26 AM

truckinslave

Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline

Keeping it LIVE

The CNN babe on from 11 AM to 1 PM today- Ashleigh Banfield?- just said that if you watched the trial last week and this morning you probably thought you were watching the defense.
She raised the possibility that this was some rope-a-dope strategy from the prosecution; that, having made the case for the defense they were now going to tear it apart by going after the timeline, but it sounded like wishful thinking and/or a desperate attempt to keep viewers.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to Kirata)

Profile

Post #: 863

RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 7/1/2013 10:15:50 AM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

The judges outright made a point to say that his knees buckled and he wobbled, and so didn't have an avenue of retreat before the next attack.

There is a vast difference in obiter dicta and ratio decidendi. You should learn it.

It was pointed out at the outset that he did not have any need to retreat, let alone exhaustively.

It is meaningless in this case at present. It indicates nothing.

Except that an appellate court judge wrote that buckled knees was sufficient to have no avenue of reasonable retreat.

Which is all I originally asserted. Everything else is desperate deflection.

except that it was obiter dicta, and it means nothing. The entire posting of the case is desperate asswipe. We have first of all, proof in those cases, and there is no proof of buckling of knees in the Zimmerman case.

Research the ones where there was an aggravated stalking that held (they are there as well in that case)

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to Raiikun)

Profile

Post #: 864

RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 7/1/2013 10:23:36 AM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

Too bad for Zimmerman he had a neurological evaluation immediately following the killing, proving that there were no worries about any damage.

Zimmerman had a neurological evaluation immediately following the assault, proving to his vast relief he had taken action before any permanent damage had occurred.

Fixed it for you.

2.0cm and 0.5 cm scratches -- not even requiring a band-aid, does not GBH make. It's not what Zimmerman ( who was on drugs ) thought, but what the ladies on the jury would have thought while Zimmerman was chasing them.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to truckinslave)

Profile

Post #: 865

RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 7/1/2013 10:26:07 AM

RacerJim

Posts: 1583
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Totally aside, but thanks, BitYakin, for the modification in your posts. They're much easier on the eye.

We now return to the regularly scheduled soap opera

Anybody think we'll get a federal civil rights prosecution, if the Florida jury comes back, "not guilty?"

Yup.

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Profile

Post #: 866

RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 7/1/2013 10:29:17 AM

RacerJim

Posts: 1583
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

Keeping it LIVE

The CNN babe on from 11 AM to 1 PM today- Ashleigh Banfield?- just said that if you watched the trial last week and this morning you probably thought you were watching the defense.
She raised the possibility that this was some rope-a-dope strategy from the prosecution; that, having made the case for the defense they were now going to tear it apart by going after the timeline, but it sounded like wishful thinking and/or a desperate attempt to keep viewers.

It's almost as though the prosecution is intentionally losing its own case in order to incite racist riots.

(in reply to truckinslave)

Profile

Post #: 867

RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 7/1/2013 10:30:05 AM

DaddySatyr

Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RacerJim

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Anybody think we'll get a federal civil rights prosecution, if the Florida jury comes back, "not guilty?"

Yup.

Absolutely. While trying to deprive Zimmerman of his civil right to life, Martin was prevented from his civil right to violence (which some might call self-expression) and racism which ... ummm ... well, it is his right as long as he's hating on "creepy-ass, white, kill-my-neighbor, crackers".

Peace and comfort,

Michael

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to RacerJim)

Profile

Post #: 868

RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 7/1/2013 10:34:46 AM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

I love the way that there's this 'blame the victim' thing going on.

FOR THE RECORD, and to shut the nitwits up. TRAYVON MARTIN HAS NEVER BEEN ACCUSED OF ANY CRIME.

Period.

The historical context of young black men being abducted, tortured and murdered need to be considered. This isn't just two people having an argument. This is one person put in fear of his life BEFORE the confrontation even started. Zimmerman's pursuit **was** the provocation. How was Martin to know that Zimmerman wasn't in the Aryan Brotherhood, or Latin Kings? ZIMMERMAN NEVER IDENTIFIED HIMSELF. Even cops wear uniforms.

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 7/1/2013 10:35:15 AM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to DaddySatyr)

Profile

Post #: 869

RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 7/1/2013 10:39:14 AM

truckinslave

Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline

quote:

aggravated stalking

ROFLMAO

Definition of stalking, under Fl law:

willful, malicious, and repeated following or harassing of another person.

Aggravated stalking:
1. willfully, maliciously, and repeatedly follows, harasses, or cyberstalks another person and makes a credible threat with the intent to place that person in reasonable fear of death or bodily injury of the person, or the person's child, sibling, spouse, parent, or dependent; or
2 .commits the offense of stalking after an injunction for protection against repeat violence, sexual violence, or dating violence, or an injunction for protection against domestic violence has been issued, or after any other court-imposed prohibition of conduct toward the subject person or that person's property; or
3. willfully, maliciously, and repeatedly follows, harasses, or cyberstalks a minor under 16 years of age; or
4. commits the offense stalking after having been sentenced for sexual battery, or
5. commits the offense of stalking after having been sentenced for lewd or lascivious offenses committed upon or in the presence of persons less than 16 years of age; or
6. commits the offense of stalking after having been sentenced for certain computer pornography offenses when the accused was prohibited from contacting the victim of that earlier offense.

As stupidly over zealous as the prosecution has been they have not been sufficiently stupid as to mention stalking, far less aggravated stalking.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to mnottertail)

Profile

Post #: 870

RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 7/1/2013 10:40:38 AM

Wendel27

Posts: 162
Joined: 5/5/2013
Status: offline

The argument that because Mr. Zimmerman walked after Mr. Martin and asked him who he was and what he was doing this constitutes provocation is pretty far fetched. I don't know if Mr. Zimmerman is guilty but if he is it's not because of that.

(in reply to farglebargle)

Profile

Post #: 871

RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 7/1/2013 10:41:18 AM

Hillwilliam

Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

I was told that if you suspect you are going to have a problem, get the damn gun out.

I don't know who the fuck taught your class- or, more importantly, where; but in WV you just committed the crime of brandishing.

I thought we agreed that every state is different
As for brandishing, pre stand your ground, on your own property? Every state has their own definition.

What are you going to do when you suspect someone is in your house? Carry it in a holster?

It's a judged by 12 (or 6)/carried by 6 decision.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to truckinslave)

Profile

Post #: 872

RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 7/1/2013 10:41:22 AM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

Aggravated stalking:
1. willfully, maliciously, and repeatedly follows, harasses, or cyberstalks another person and makes a credible threat with the intent to place that person in reasonable fear of death or bodily injury of the person, or the person's child, sibling, spouse, parent, or dependent; or

Exactly as it happened.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to truckinslave)

Profile

Post #: 873

RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 7/1/2013 10:43:10 AM

truckinslave

Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline

quote:

2.0cm and 0.5 cm scratches -- not even requiring a band-aid, does not GBH make. It's not what Zimmerman ( who was on drugs ) thought, but what the ladies on the jury would have thought while Zimmerman was chasing them.

Well, that's half right, which is far better than average.

Zimmerman in fact stopped the dangerous assault upon his body before GBH occurred.
But it's what the ladies on the jury would have thought had they been assaulted by Martin, been put in a "ground and pound" and seen him try to take their weapon. And they would have killed him too.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to farglebargle)

Profile

Post #: 874

RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 7/1/2013 10:53:08 AM

Raiikun

Posts: 2650
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Aggravated stalking:
1. willfully, maliciously, and repeatedly follows, harasses, or cyberstalks another person and makes a credible threat with the intent to place that person in reasonable fear of death or bodily injury of the person, or the person's child, sibling, spouse, parent, or dependent; or

Exactly as it happened.

Only one instance, and no malice yet in evidence.

Nor has the state alleged stalking.

(in reply to mnottertail)

Profile

Post #: 875

RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 7/1/2013 11:00:36 AM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

Read the specifications in the statute, in the charge, they arent charging him with aggravated stalking, they are charging him with murder in the second, one of the specs saying...............cmon, you can cogitate at a rather low level.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to Raiikun)

Profile

Post #: 876

RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 7/1/2013 11:00:36 AM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wendel27

The argument that because Mr. Zimmerman walked after Mr. Martin and asked him who he was and what he was doing this constitutes provocation is pretty far fetched. I don't know if Mr. Zimmerman is guilty but if he is it's not because of that.

Who told you that Zimmerman identified himself and asked Martin anything?

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Wendel27)

Profile

Post #: 877

RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 7/1/2013 11:05:09 AM

Wendel27

Posts: 162
Joined: 5/5/2013
Status: offline

''Who told you that Zimmerman identified himself and asked Martin anything?'' Just read it in the myriad reports. I don't know if it's accurate or not like so much in this case. If it's not then it becomes Zimmerman walked after person. Again scarcely grounds to run at and deck him. Though again I must say I don't know if that's what happened. I'm seeing alot of people though saying that if it is how events played out Zimmerman was somehow culpable. In my opion that's more than a mild stretch.

(in reply to farglebargle)

Profile

Post #: 878

RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 7/1/2013 11:06:56 AM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0782/Sections/0782.04.html

Murder in the second degree, how many letters in the sub can they hang on him? How many do they need to hang on him for a successful prosecution?

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to Wendel27)

Profile

Post #: 879

RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 7/1/2013 11:12:41 AM

Wendel27

Posts: 162
Joined: 5/5/2013
Status: offline

Unless stalking [affravated or otherwise] is very different to our definition of it I wouldn't think Zimmerman was culpable. The only one I can see is murder of a human being. But if it in self defence then it becomes a justifiable homicide. I don't know if what Zimmerman is saying is true. He may have got his gun out told Martin he was about to die and Martin had no choice but a desperate attempt to disarm him...I just have no idea. But it seems to me the argument that he followed Martin and that makes him culpable or an attack on hum justified simply isn't right Mnottertail.

(in reply to mnottertail)

Profile

Post #: 880