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RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 7/1/2013 1:39:54 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

Maybe the trouble with the Zimmerman case is the lack of a proper criminal designation. Zimmerman to me (from the outside) did not commit a depraved act as much as either a criminally reckless / negligent one. He also had impaired judgment about having a firearm. Firearms make confrontations worse and deadly. Disputes and confrontations are best without any firearms involved.

Firearms are not really a tool of safety and self protection -- they are weapons most likely to cause irreversible, unintended consequences. (Killing a spouse, child or member of the family, killing an innocent person, of being used to commit suicide.)

P.S. I do see how you can make the case he had a depraved heart, I'm just not so sure a jury will buy it (if it sympathizes with him at all.)

This two way tragedy was mostly caused by Zimmerman carrying a firearm when he didn't need one.

P.S. II I intend to let the jury sort out the facts. To me the facts are in dispute.

Without the firearm Zimmerman could be a vegetable regardless of Martin's intent. Would that be ok?

< Message edited by BamaD -- 7/1/2013 1:40:24 PM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 921
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 7/1/2013 1:42:08 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		We would be hijacking the thread to get into SYG but Florida's version differs from most others in some important ways that make this type of tragedy more likely to happen.

I've nothing against SYG type laws... just not Florida's version... it is too vague and gives people too much leeway in using deadly force.

I've already argued in other threads so I'm not arguing it here... just a comment and opinion and done.

Butch



_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 922
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 7/1/2013 1:42:26 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

And people think I am crazy for thinking the verdict is predetermined and Zimmerman is going to walk which will lead to race riots all over the country?


I believe the police were correct when they said there was no crime to begin with... Then the pressure started coming from both citizens that knew nothing of the case except it was white on black and politicians. To keep their jobs they charged and are prosecuting Zimmerman knowing there is no way they can convict him... There just is not a case and so far the evidence presented backs that up.

PS.. You are right about riots when and if he is found not guilty... Not only did the legislature of Florida screw up with this law that is not well thought out...but they may also have caused the riots that will surely follow after he is found not guilty... by forcing the prosecution.

Butch



Actually, the investigating officer is quoted as saying he wanted to file charges immediately. The DA called the station midnightish and said not to.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 923
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 7/1/2013 1:42:31 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		17 year old child is walking home in his own neighborhood. A third party aggressor follows him, an altercation ensues, and the aggressor shoots the unarmed child dead.


I thought you guys had given up the "innocent child" routine. He was old enough to join the Marines.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 924
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 7/1/2013 1:42:50 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

Keep proving and expanding my point.

Deliberately. Egregiously. Awesomely. Incoherently. Wrong.




You certainly are, and it shows.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 925
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 7/1/2013 1:43:07 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		The Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman affair smells like an occult sacrifice





_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 926
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 7/1/2013 1:43:56 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

17 year old child is walking home in his own neighborhood. A third party aggressor follows him, an altercation ensues, and the aggressor shoots the unarmed child dead.


I thought you guys had given up the "innocent child" routine. He was old enough to join the Marines.

Legally, he was a child though.

Obviously, you don't ask someone for ID if you suspect them of a crime.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 927
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 7/1/2013 1:44:58 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

The Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman affair smells like an occult sacrifice





bad link

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 928
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 7/1/2013 1:45:51 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

We would be hijacking the thread to get into SYG but Florida's version differs from most others in some important ways that make this type of tragedy more likely to happen.

I've nothing against SYG type laws... just not Florida's version... it is too vague and gives people too much leeway in using deadly force.

I've already argued in other threads so I'm not arguing it here... just a comment and opinion and done.

Butch



And it is not relevant to this case.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 929
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 7/1/2013 1:45:56 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

quote:

I believe the police were correct when they said there was no crime to begin with... Then the pressure started coming from both citizens that knew nothing of the case except it was white on black and politicians. To keep their jobs they charged and are prosecuting Zimmerman knowing there is no way they can convict him... There just is not a case and so far the evidence presented backs that up.


17 year old child is walking home in his own neighborhood. A third party aggressor follows him, an altercation ensues, and the aggressor shoots the unarmed child dead.

What role did race have?

If the child had been white, criminal charges would have been filed immediately.



Why say such a foolish thing after hundreds of pages of discussion... and the evidence presented in the trial...at the very least you should be able to see two sides to this tragedy... If not then you are prejudiced or blind deaf and dumb.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 930
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 7/1/2013 1:46:25 PM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

This two way tragedy was mostly caused by Zimmerman carrying a firearm when he didn't need one.


Seriously?
The man was... walking.
The man was attacked.
His attacker achieved dominance over him and was beating him.
His attacker said: "You're going to die tonight"
And the problem was that he was carrying the means by which he saved his life- a gun.
Seriously?


_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 931
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 7/1/2013 1:47:04 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

And it is not relevant to this case.


Not the criminal side... but certainly the cause.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 932
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 7/1/2013 1:48:25 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

17 year old child is walking home in his own neighborhood. A third party aggressor follows him, an altercation ensues, and the aggressor shoots the unarmed child dead.


I thought you guys had given up the "innocent child" routine. He was old enough to join the Marines.

Legally, he was a child though.

Obviously, you don't ask someone for ID if you suspect them of a crime.

A minor, not a child, and you are right when someone is banging your head on the ground their age is the least of your worries.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 933
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 7/1/2013 1:48:37 PM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline 		Only if he attacks me

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 934
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 7/1/2013 1:50:00 PM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline
quote:

This two way tragedy was mostly caused by Zimmerman carrying a firearm when he didn't need one.


Better to have a weapon, when you don't need one than to need one and not have one.

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 935
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 7/1/2013 1:50:37 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		Don`t confront strangers with a gun and that won`t happen.....

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 936
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 7/1/2013 1:51:15 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		The Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman affair smells like an occult sacrifice






_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 937
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 7/1/2013 1:51:53 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

This two way tragedy was mostly caused by Zimmerman carrying a firearm when he didn't need one.


Better to have a weapon, when you don't need one than to need one and not have one.


Unless of course, you end up killing your neighbor's child with it....

"Fools rush in where angels fear to tread"

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 7/1/2013 1:53:40 PM >

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 938
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 7/1/2013 1:52:15 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Don`t confront strangers with a gun and that won`t happen.....

I don't know the names of the people I confronted once (so they were strangers) but it definitely saved my ass.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 939
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 7/1/2013 1:52:15 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

And it is not relevant to this case.


Not the criminal side... but certainly the cause.

Butch

No Florida has concealed carry which is what allowed Zimmerman to carry, Not SYG.
The case revolves around self defense not SYG.
SYG is not relevant.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 940
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