hell yes and amen

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ORIGINAL: MHOO314

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ORIGINAL: Caretakr

Some threads today made me wonder about so much of the discord that goes on here-the lack of objectivity-ego centrism.

I understand personal points of view are all we have to offer.

But questions asked are often about things that have nothing to do with us, personally.

Why do you think that so many of us have to make it all about us? Is that not the way a baby views the world, as entirely revolving around it?

Because we are evolved beings, if we were not, it would be all about the "herd". We are so self focused we can't see that thinking about others really creates a better sense of community.

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ORIGINAL: mistoferin
What you said made no sense but it sure explained alot.

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ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I will also add that we are not taught HOW to discuss things from an objective perspective.  We're not taught HOW to say "OK I feel like this...but what he was ASKING was about this."  or "OK what she said made me FEEL like this, but are my feelings relevant?"

Females especially are taught that we should get along with eachother and in order to do that, we must AGREE.  Now, there's nothing wrong with this.  I have to admit I tend to like people more if they agree with me and if I agree with them.

But we aren't taught to move BEYOND that- to respect and like the person for what they do, not just what we agree with them doing.  There are people here I really dislike and really disagree with, but I really can respect who they are and what they choose because of how they project themselves and are able to handle things socially.

So if people learned or were taught those intellectual/judgement/good debate skills, I doubt they would fall back on their immediate emotional impulses as much as they do now.

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ORIGINAL: LadyMorgynn

Okay, I'll try again.  The minute we are born, we are surrounded by people who have expectations of us.  Our parents have them.  Our brothers and sisters have them.  Our teachers have expectations of us.  Then we grow up.  Our boss and coworkers have expectations of us.  Our parents probably still have something to say about our life (oh honey, don't you think your boyfriend should get a haircut?).  Significant others, spouses, neighbors, church... *everyone* has expectations of some kind, sabe?  Who are you?  Are you who your mother wants to be?  Who our father wants us to be?  What our minister wants us to be?  Society also has norms... you're not supposed to be a mass murderer, for instance, or evade your taxes, or beat your kids.... or even beat the slave at your feet begging you to do so.  Society at large determines what is "normal," and in order to step outside that box, in order for us to BE who we are, we have to make our own choice... at some point you have to take a stand and say, this is who I am, even if ("x") doesn't like it, I am sorry but this is who *I* am.   

I mean... how many people here have someone in their life/family who either does not approve, or is not comfortable with, your being in this lifestyle?  How many people here cannot TELL those in their life about being in this lifestyle?  At some point, in order to be Domme/ or sub or slave or switch (or bi or gay or poly, for that matter), you had to put yourself first, and say this IS who I am, in order to be that person. 

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ORIGINAL: mistoferin
What you said made no sense but it sure explained alot.

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ORIGINAL: Caretakr
A strictly ego centric perspective is a formula for relationship disaster. Perhaps that is why hedonists seem to do so poorly with interpersonal relationships. Without the ability to sacrifice for the good of a connection,it's going to be tenuous at best.

I have always felt that if one has a continual series of failures,the most common element-oneself- must be examined and adjusted. But sadly,it seems that many go through life without the innate realization that serving the needs of others serves oneself, in the return.

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ORIGINAL: zenofeller
would you say people should be taught philosophy then, miss socrat..umm, albatross.

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ORIGINAL: Caretakr
A strictly ego centric perspective is a formula for relationship disaster. Perhaps that is why hedonists seem to do so poorly with interpersonal relationships. Without the ability to sacrifice for the good of a connection,it's going to be tenuous at best.

I have always felt that if one has a continual series of failures,the most common element-oneself- must be examined and adjusted. But sadly,it seems that many go through life without the innate realization that serving the needs of others serves oneself, in the return.

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ORIGINAL: Caretakr
When one moves beyond the need for external validation in viewing the world,you begin to see the world-not merely your own tiny place within it.

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ORIGINAL: LadyMorgynn

Not to hijack the thread, but this is exactly what I have observed about satanists, too... the Church of Satan satanists, not the other kind.  The emphasis so completely on "me-me-me" with no alleviating compassion for or consideration for others, almost a complete denial of another person's right to have feelings, needs and wants, that life itself becomes a narrow (if eccentric) tunnel... very sad.

There's a difference between being "all about me" in the sense of being true to yourself, and being egocentric and selfish.  The difference is also very subjective, relative to who it is who's looking!  Well, we all know that, don't we?  Vanilla folk just don't GET that the submissive is getting anything out of being whipped, the heaviest criticism falls on the sadist, who is merely being true to himself, as is the masochist; but vanilla folk *perceive* the sadist as selfish (at best) and the masochist as the victim of the sadist.

Not that the latter scenario can't be fun too ;)

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ORIGINAL: Caretakr
A strictly ego centric perspective is a formula for relationship disaster. Perhaps that is why hedonists seem to do so poorly with interpersonal relationships. Without the ability to sacrifice for the good of a connection,it's going to be tenuous at best.

I have always felt that if one has a continual series of failures,the most common element-oneself- must be examined and adjusted. But sadly,it seems that many go through life without the innate realization that serving the needs of others serves oneself, in the return.

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ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Insecurities.

A lot of subs are actually people pleasing control freak perfectionists- and that's a fairly conceited perspective to take in life- thinking that THEY have to get it right, that if THEY don't do it right then the whole world will go awry, that if what THEY do is not given the right approval then London Bridge all falls down.

Ds is perfectly suited for this type of personality.  And it can be used productively as long as its kept in check and doesn't affect one's overall functioning and happiness in a negative way.

But it comes down to insecurities.  I don't know why people worry so much about getting partly naked in a club- everyone ELSE is so busy worrying about it that they really don't care much about you.

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ORIGINAL: MistressDREAD

Yes on here in the boards of BDSM where the world can see Me here at large it IS all about Me and My Alternate Lifestyle and how I relate to it based off of who I am.

How else will tolerance and understanding be gained if personal reflections of self are not seen in all of Our kinks and differances to the perceived norm.

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ORIGINAL: LadyMorgynn
There's a difference between being "all about me" in the sense of being true to yourself, and being egocentric and selfish.  The difference is also very subjective, relative to who it is who's looking!  Well, we all know that, don't we?  Vanilla folk just don't GET that the submissive is getting anything out of being whipped, the heaviest criticism falls on the sadist, who is merely being true to himself, as is the masochist; but vanilla folk *perceive* the sadist as selfish (at best) and the masochist as the victim of the sadist.

(yes.. that's right... the lot of you ARE simply walking, talking, breathing machines to wield the flogger - you have no other purpose in life!  )

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ORIGINAL: hizgeorgiapeach

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ORIGINAL: LadyMorgynn
There's a difference between being "all about me" in the sense of being true to yourself, and being egocentric and selfish.  The difference is also very subjective, relative to who it is who's looking!  Well, we all know that, don't we?  Vanilla folk just don't GET that the submissive is getting anything out of being whipped, the heaviest criticism falls on the sadist, who is merely being true to himself, as is the masochist; but vanilla folk *perceive* the sadist as selfish (at best) and the masochist as the victim of the sadist.

It's funny that you brought up that Society At Large tends to view the Sadist as the selfish one within an SM context.  My personal experience has shown me that this is indeed the case - that society Does have that perspective - though that may not be the Fact of who is being "selfish" in the context of mutual play.  Personally, I'm VERY selfish and "all about me" when it comes to SM - and I'm primarily a masocist.  If I'm getting what *I want/need out of the physical stimulation, I could honestly care less much of the time whether they're getting what THEY need/want out of it.  Then again, I go into play with the (perhaps mistaken) assumption that if they don't like what they're doing, aren't getting something "selfish" out of it from their own perspective - they wouldn't be capitulating to fulfillment of my selfish masocistic desires to be flogged, cropped, and paddled until their arm falls off from swinging the toys.
 
(yes.. that's right... the lot of you ARE simply walking, talking, breathing machines to wield the flogger - you have no other purpose in life!  )

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ORIGINAL: hizgeorgiapeach
(yes.. that's right... the lot of you ARE simply walking, talking, breathing machines to wield the flogger - you have no other purpose in life!  )

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To know a thing is to gain inner control over it- ignorance is not bliss, it is weakness.