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[Poll]

What is your truth?

Truth is subjective/relative.

47% (23)

Truth is absolute.

52% (25)

Total Votes : 48

(last vote on : 7/11/2013 3:38:13 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )

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RE: What is your truth? - 7/12/2013 7:54:46 AM

tweakabelle

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Yes GS did raise a very good point. And that point deserved to be taken a little more seriously.

If 46% of the population in any supposedly advanced and literate country are "young earth creationists" then there is something seriously wrong with the educational system...

I completely agree with your point, but not at all with his. Blaming it on the eeeeevil Bible is nonsense.

K.

Our agreement on the main point notwithstanding, I remain unconvinced about the Bible's lack of culpability.

It seems uncontroversial that many of those responsible for the refusal to teach essential life skills strongly assert that their motivation derives from the Bible and its 'teachings'. While the Bible may not be the sole culprit , and those claiming Biblical justification for their beliefs could be mistaken in making such claims, the Bible surely must be held partially responsible.

Glossing over this culpability is not the best analysis, nor is it a productive basis for developing strategies to rectify this appalling situation IMHO.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 7/12/2013 7:58:57 AM >

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RE: What is your truth? - 7/12/2013 8:02:56 AM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

While the Bible may not be the sole culprit... Glossing over this culpability is not the best analysis

Inanimate objects cannot be held "culpable" for anything.

K.

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RE: What is your truth? - 7/12/2013 8:06:46 AM

tweakabelle

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

While the Bible may not be the sole culprit... Glossing over this culpability is not the best analysis

Inanimate objects cannot be held "culpable" for anything.

K.

Yes. But the concepts and ideologies communicated by various inanimate objects (such as, for example, the Bible or Das Kapital) can be, and should be held to account. Especially so when we are considering the motivations of self-proclaimed adherents to a given ideology, discourse or religion.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 7/12/2013 8:08:58 AM >

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RE: What is your truth? - 7/12/2013 8:10:51 AM

Toysinbabeland

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

While the Bible may not be the sole culprit... Glossing over this culpability is not the best analysis

Inanimate objects cannot be held "culpable" for anything.

K.

Wait !wait! ....So, when I trip over the hose, it's MY FAULT?

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Post #: 164

RE: What is your truth? - 7/12/2013 8:42:26 AM

Edwynn

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

I think people are subjective, the truth is just what it is. It's the opposite of false.

Nature is the only 'truth,' but even that only in answer to such a silly question from some self-important element of nature (human inane purposeless conjuring, e.g.).

Nature has no concept of "truth," has no need for it, and if troubling itself to consider such a fatuous 'concept' from such a minor constituent of existence, only answers with hurricanes, floods, droughts, an abundance of plant and animal and bacterial life, and amazing chemical and biological and physical processes. An amazing knack for placing a planet the perfect 93 million miles (147 million km) from the power source, etc. Super novas, black holes, 'gas giants,' the slowest and the fastest processes ever, the hottest and the coldest extremes ever, etc.

But philosophical wanking such as this has served this particular minor element of existence for their own purpose, and for no other, for (human) ages.

The universe was around for about 12-13 billion years before 'truth' ever came along, the solar system itself ~ 4.5 billion years before.

"Truth" is the religion of naturatheists.

< Message edited by Edwynn -- 7/12/2013 8:57:24 AM >

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RE: What is your truth? - 7/12/2013 9:13:44 AM

Edwynn

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PS

Light and other forms of radiation existed billions of years before humans were able to understand it (before humans even existed, believe it or not), able to measure it in any fashion, before we understood the electromagnetic phenomena behind it, etc.

That is; light existed long before humans understood the 'truth' of light.

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Post #: 166

RE: What is your truth? - 7/12/2013 11:20:44 AM

Edwynn

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dyfrynt

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan.

My eyes see an object as being predominantly blue, bordering on green, whereas another's eyes see the same object as green, bordering on blue.

But by the estimation proposed above, and in various other posts, and in the OP, humans have no ability to ascertain 'truth' on their own, never have, never will, other than through an oscilloscope.

I understand that, and even partially agree, actually.

Every animal and every plant has their own 'truth,' i.e., what matters to them. The universe and its workings constitute final arbitration.

I am afflicted with 'pitch memory,' otherwise known by the misnomer of "perfect pitch." I can tell you all day long, to a certain verified extent, what note sung or played is 'on pitch' or not. But in equal temperament (how pianos, and therefore everything else is tuned, since early 1800s onwards), the major third and the minor sixth are 23 cents off of what would be otherwise perfectly tuned to that key. None of us are troubled too much by that discrepancy, not even me, because the human ear-brain system just doesn't give a crap about thirds and sixths anywhere near as much as it cares about unisons and octaves and fourths and fifths (which in that standard are only two cents 'off key,' well away from any super-ears, human pitch discernment).

Who possesses the "truth" here? My ears, your ears? My eyes, your eyes?

We can just turn it all over to the oscilloscope, but then we leave the brain portion of the 'ear-brain' system or the 'eye-brain' system out of it, and we just turn it all over to the most simplistic measuring device to ascertain the "truth." And regarding musical pitch, the oscilloscope only displays the frequency and amplitude of the input signal, it can not and will not tell us if we should prefer a perfect, or 'just' tuning (which is perfect for every interval only in that key) to an equal temperament tuning. The fact that our ears could accept either outcome tells us, or should tell us, just how permeable the human contrivance of "truth" might be.

< Message edited by Edwynn -- 7/12/2013 11:37:48 AM >

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Post #: 167

RE: What is your truth? - 7/15/2013 6:07:04 PM

GotSteel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
While the Bible may not be the sole culprit... Glossing over this culpability is not the best analysis

Inanimate objects cannot be held "culpable" for anything.

K.

Yes. But the concepts and ideologies communicated by various inanimate objects (such as, for example, the Bible or Das Kapital) can be, and should be held to account. Especially so when we are considering the motivations of self-proclaimed adherents to a given ideology, discourse or religion.

It's really weird how when it comes to this particular topic phrasing which is easily understood about everything else suddenly becomes incomprehensible. I mean check out these headlines, everybody's able to easily figure out what they mean, right?

IEDs responsible for many Afghan deaths

Deaths caused by IEDs on the decline

It's a bizarre phenomenon and I'm sad that my thread exploring the dumbest interpretation was trolled to death.

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RE: What is your truth? - 7/16/2013 4:19:09 AM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

I'm sad that my thread exploring the dumbest interpretation was trolled to death.

Yes, it's tragic. But, of course, if the presentation of reality in the Bible can be charged with responsibility for making education and progress difficult, then the presentation of reality in your posts can be charged with responsibility for making intelligent and reasoned discussion difficult. So if you don't like it when things you throw come back and hit you, maybe you should stop playing with boomerangs.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 7/16/2013 4:22:29 AM >

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