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RE: Tens unit placement on females - 7/3/2013 10:26:02 PM   
njlauren


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quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml


quote:

ORIGINAL: MalcolmNathaniel


quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

Oh that must burn, to be made to look so foolish.


Yes I feel quite foolish. Because I tried to argue with fools.


And yet you didn't actually answer all of my questions.

You made a bold claim about everything in one of my posts being wrong. I asked you to demonstrate it.

If you cant, then... we all get to know the stupid one.

quote:



Want to know why such small amperage in the wrong place is so dangerous? Your heart works on a very precise schedule of electrical impulses that contract the various part of the muscle in a precise way. That signal looks exactly like what you've seen on TV: One big burst followed by a small dip and then a smaller burst followed by a smaller dip.


Oh fuck me! That's where this misunderstanding came from.

You're assuming that there's a danger that people might rip open each other's chests and place the pads directly on the heart?

Oh fuck me! I hadn't considered that as a possibility.

Well of course that changes everything.

No wait a second.... no it fucking doesn't.

The statement "When it comes to the heart it isn't so much amperage as it is frequency." is still fucking bullshit.



quote:



When that signal becomes a sine wave we call that fibrillation, AKA a heart attack. That is when all of the chambers of your heart try to pump at the same time at cross-purposes.

Normally your central nervous system sends these signals to your heart at a few micro-amps. A mere 15 micro-amps is all it takes to disrupt this signal and cause fibrillation. By contrast it takes close to 25 milli-amps to cause contractions in other muscles. That's well over 3 orders of magnitude.


Really... 15 microamps. Gosh. So all those defibrillators that pump out 300 joules you mean they're just WASTING ELECTRICITY?

Even internal paddles - you know the spoons they press directly against the beating heart run at 12 or so joules.



quote:





But what do I know? I went to college just so I can say stupid things.


You appear to know a lot less than you think.

And many of us have been to college sunshine.



A defibrillator uses a pretty strong shock to force the heart out of fibrillation back into its normal sinus rhythm, it basically delivers a short, strong pulse to in effect give the heart the hair of the dog that bit it, a shock can cause it to fibrillate, a shock can cause it to move back into normal rhythm (in a sense, it is like a reset to the heart, it allows the heart to resynch itself and allow the normal impulses to do their work).

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RE: Tens unit placement on females - 7/3/2013 11:51:23 PM   
ForgetToRemember


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A lot has gone on since my last post. Unfortunately a lot of ignorance and hate has shown up in this thread. I hope to end it once and for all though. What we are concerned about when using electricity is the interruption of electrical impulses sent from the spinal cord (which is sent from the brain). The items that are of any kind of life threat to us include the nerves of the Heart, Diaphragm and Major Arteries (Carotid and Coronary are the only ones possible to cause actual damage). So those are the things capable of causing death or serious injury when talking about electrical play. You can refer to my post on page 1 on how you can die from these being disrupted.

Now we have to understand electricity. I'm not going to get into details, but let's just say that amps decide whether or not your nerves are disrupted. The amount of amps needed for the heart nerves to be disrupted are between 75 to 100 miliamps (.075-.1A). The higher the amps, the worse / more likely you will die. This is the amount required if directly in contact with the heart. In order to get through to your heart however, the current must bypass your resistance.

Skin is by far the largest resistance factor we have, followed by fat, bone then muscle and nerve tissue. This is where the AC vs DC matters. AC is able to bypass the epidermis (the top layer of skin, mostly dead cells which also offer the highest amount of electrical resistance). Dry skin can offer between 1,000 to 100,000 ohms of resistance. Note that if you are using some sort of electrical play lubricant, this will also significantly lower the resistance of your skin (or if it's just wet). Thus, the amount of voltage needed will be less in order to apply the same amount of current to the heart. Someone was mentioning defibrillators wasting electricity...they do not really care how many amps are put into your heart because it is meant to be used only during ventricular fibrillation. So defibrillators can both cause a heart attack and reset the heart.

So, to sum it up: You need the actual current (amperes) that reach the AV node in the heart to be greater than .075. AC current makes it much easier to cause damage due to it bypassing the electrical resistance of your epidermis layer of skin. I do not know the exact voltage required to reach the heart through the skin, muscle, fat and bones. Therefore it is very difficult to determine the exact cut off point for safe electrical toys around the heart. So i will give an example: A TENS unit with 12 volts going through the body's total resistance of 500 ohms would produce a current of .024 amperes. Please note that the numbers are all made up as we cannot know the exact resistance from the surface of the skin to the heart. 120 volts over the same resistance would cause .24 amperes, sufficient to cause ventricular fibrillation.

To sum it up: It's quite possible that the makers of electrical play devices have found the perfect settings to make it impossible to cause serious damage using their product. However, unless you have a reason to think that, I would stay away from the Heart, Neck and Spinal Column. If you absolutely must use e-stim in those areas DO NOT USE LUBE! It will significantly reduce the resistance of the skin and cause unexpectedly more damage. My final word of advice: learn as much as you can if you absolutely need to use it in those areas, or use a closed circuit e-stim device that completes the circuit at a much lower distance / resistance than going into deep tissue / the heart.

(in reply to njlauren)
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RE: Tens unit placement on females - 7/4/2013 1:16:38 AM   
Whiplashsmile4


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quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

There you go, bringing some actual facts and common sense to a thread.

Way to kill the joy.

quote:

martstim.com


I was thinking WTF until I read his post! It's a TENS unit. lol

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RE: Tens unit placement on females - 7/4/2013 1:18:54 AM   
Whiplashsmile4


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This TOPIC is Specific to a TENS unit on female Body parts!!! You'd swear it was about electrical play using Wall Sockets and Car Batteries though.. LOL

< Message edited by Whiplashsmile4 -- 7/4/2013 1:19:28 AM >


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RE: Tens unit placement on females - 7/4/2013 1:45:58 PM   
Darkfeather


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Oh good lord, not the killer TENS unit again... Before people start talking about death and electrocution, lets really understand what a TENS unit is. First off it stands for Transcutaneous Electrical Nerve Stimulation. Basically it is a non-invasive, low-risk nerve stimulation intended to reduce pain, both acute and chronic. Nerve stimulation means the impulses only travel deep enough into the body to come in contact with the nervous system, and stimulate it to cause muscles to contract. The kink factor came in when users found by different placement and higher settings, the nerves did not only contract, but send along varied pain/stimulation sensations. These things do not send currents of lighting through the body, and they are in no way similar to a violet wand. They only stimulate nerves, period. Now you say, what if you cause the current to travel along the nerves through the heart? In order to do this, you would actually have to plan this, because the placement of two electrodes to cause a circuit, would have to find the exact nerve pathway that hits the heart (to put this in perspective, there are approximately 45 miles of nerves in our body). Then of course, the frequency would have to exactly modulate sympathetically to that of your particular heart. So can a TENS unit damage a heart, sure. BUT, it would be more like murder and not an accident. And as for warnings, they put warnings on plastic bags people...

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RE: Tens unit placement on females - 7/5/2013 11:55:07 AM   
VideoAdminChi


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I would hate to eviscerate this very interesting thread, so y'all be nice.


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RE: Tens unit placement on females - 7/5/2013 12:45:34 PM   
SunTzuSwe


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How difficult can it be?
A TENS unit isn't rocket science. Avoid any placement of the pads that might result in a current passing through the heart or neck/spine. Use common sense and ease into it.
I'm still a n0ob when it comes to actually using a e-stim but 4 pads cross-connected over the pussy is probably a good place to start. That is two pads on each side (thigh, close to the pussy).
+/- for each pair on the opposing side. It's a safe and easy place to start.

I've had my physical therapist hooking a pair of pads up straight on my forhead, it's only a TENS folks.

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RE: Tens unit placement on females - 7/7/2013 11:08:16 AM   
PreviouslyVC


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FR

I did quite a lot of giggling, reading this thread.

I got my current TENS unit on the NHS, for period pain. Now, my GP doesn't have an expensive degree (because obviously it's the expense that matters) in electrical engineering, but he does have an equally expensive (I presume) degree in medicine, i.e. the art of Not Killing People. When I asked him about safety he said this:

- your ribcage is a pretty good rule of thumb line not to go above. Don't put them in the space a couple of inches either side of your spine

- don't let the two pads from the same channel (I have a dual-channel one) cross the spine, but it's fine to have one channel on each side.

- don't put the pads more than a few inches apart.

- don't use it on wet skin.

and then he sent me on my way to the pharmacy to pick it up, happy that I was suitably train in the Ancient Veritable Art of Not Killing Myself With A TENS Unit. It was a shorter safety talk than any kink demo I've been to, ever.

And that was for it to be used solo, without a spotter!

(Heh.)

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RE: Tens unit placement on females - 7/7/2013 12:29:15 PM   
Darkfeather


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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=232riG_7aQQ

Video proof the myth is busted

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RE: Tens unit placement on females - 7/8/2013 1:10:15 AM   
Whiplashsmile4


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darkfeather

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=232riG_7aQQ

Video proof the myth is busted


Exactly..

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RE: Tens unit placement on females - 7/8/2013 2:50:35 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PreviouslyVC
- your ribcage is a pretty good rule of thumb line not to go above. Don't put them in the space a couple of inches either side of your spine

- don't let the two pads from the same channel (I have a dual-channel one) cross the spine, but it's fine to have one channel on each side.


I've been prescribed a TENS unit with specific instructions to do both of those things.

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RE: Tens unit placement on females - 7/8/2013 2:54:10 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PreviouslyVC
- don't put the pads more than a few inches apart.

No, doing that's just fine.


quote:

ORIGINAL: PreviouslyVC
- don't use it on wet skin.

Actually I have a set of pads where you need to wet the skin in order to get them to stick.

(in reply to PreviouslyVC)
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RE: Tens unit placement on females - 7/8/2013 3:54:31 PM   
Darkfeather


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: PreviouslyVC
- your ribcage is a pretty good rule of thumb line not to go above. Don't put them in the space a couple of inches either side of your spine

- don't let the two pads from the same channel (I have a dual-channel one) cross the spine, but it's fine to have one channel on each side.


I've been prescribed a TENS unit with specific instructions to do both of those things.


uhh, again MYTH busted right here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=232riG_7aQQ

(in reply to GotSteel)
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RE: Tens unit placement on females - 7/9/2013 4:39:56 PM   
PreviouslyVC


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: PreviouslyVC
- don't put the pads more than a few inches apart.

No, doing that's just fine.


quote:

ORIGINAL: PreviouslyVC
- don't use it on wet skin.

Actually I have a set of pads where you need to wet the skin in order to get them to stick.


I think the distance thing may well have been efficacy rather than safety - and as for wetting the skin, well, that's just what I was told.

Darkfeather, the idea that 'some people did [thing x on day y] and were fine, so it's definitely safe!' is kind of lame. I'm comfortable saying that TENS units are safe because they're used by people the world over - not because some blokes on youtube have done it and turned out fine.


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RE: Tens unit placement on females - 7/9/2013 6:00:08 PM   
Darkfeather


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PreviouslyVC


quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: PreviouslyVC
- don't put the pads more than a few inches apart.

No, doing that's just fine.


quote:

ORIGINAL: PreviouslyVC
- don't use it on wet skin.

Actually I have a set of pads where you need to wet the skin in order to get them to stick.


I think the distance thing may well have been efficacy rather than safety - and as for wetting the skin, well, that's just what I was told.

Darkfeather, the idea that 'some people did [thing x on day y] and were fine, so it's definitely safe!' is kind of lame. I'm comfortable saying that TENS units are safe because they're used by people the world over - not because some blokes on youtube have done it and turned out fine.



Quite the opposite, people perpetuate the myth by saying it is dangerous simply "because". No proof, no facts, no actual data to the contrary. These "blokes" have actually put pads on themselves, turned it on high, and lived. That goes quite the opposite to printed literature, doctor advice, divining rod predictions, etc. For some reason, people don't belive when you say a thing is safe, you have to show them, so I fail to see how you get lame from the video...

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RE: Tens unit placement on females - 7/10/2013 2:37:11 AM   
SunTzuSwe


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Avoiding a couple of areas when placing the pads is just accepting that even though it's probably safe there is still the risk of being unlucky. As a manufacturer you can always count on people trying stupid things with your product. If it was unsafe in any way they wouldn't sell it like they do. It's all about a very slim risk of having bad luck.

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RE: Tens unit placement on females - 7/10/2013 3:03:21 AM   
Darkfeather


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We all know the real reason companies have to put warning labels on everything...


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RE: Tens unit placement on females - 7/10/2013 7:08:35 AM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ForgetToRemember
To sum it up: It's quite possible that the makers of electrical play devices have found the perfect settings to make it impossible to cause serious damage using their product. However, unless you have a reason to think that, I would stay away from the Heart, Neck and Spinal Column.


A reason to think that...you mean like the FDA approval of TENS units?

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RE: Tens unit placement on females - 7/10/2013 7:15:28 AM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darkfeather


quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
I've been prescribed a TENS unit with specific instructions to do both of those things.


uhh, again MYTH busted right here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=232riG_7aQQ


I think I might not have been clear, when I say I was instructed to do both of those things I mean that I was using a TENS unit on my neck crossing the spine as part of rehab for a sports injury as per the doctors instructions.

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RE: Tens unit placement on females - 7/10/2013 8:54:48 AM   
Darkfeather


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yeah, unfortunately in this debate you have to be a bit redundantly, obnoxiously, painfully clear as to which side of the TENS issue you stand. Its sorta like when you were 5 and talking about if there was no Santa, half said there wasn't, the other said he existed. And man you could get some massive kiddy fights in the playground going over who was right

(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 60
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