RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter option (Full Version)

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Lucylastic -> RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter option (7/10/2013 9:35:35 PM)

Lol



Phydeaux -> RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter option (7/10/2013 9:44:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


In this particular case, the gun was the problem. No gun - no murder - no trial.


Uh no. The gun let a guy defend him self, and perhaps not get beat up worse by a punk. A beating that could have resulted in death, or permanent injury. Or perhaps travon dcides to come back and jump him again. He wasn't satisfied with some of the other fights with the amount of blood he drew.




tazzygirl -> RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter option (7/10/2013 9:48:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

Who's that fat white guy?



quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

~FR

The supposed "private yards"

[image]http://axiomamnesia.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/george-zimmerman-walkkthrough-photo-02272012.png[/image]




ROFL

Thats fat to you? What do you weigh? 150 lbs soaking wet?



Powergamz1 -> RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter option (7/10/2013 10:06:26 PM)

Not to me. I was referencing several people here when they used those 2 adjectives to describe Zimmerman on that night.

Clearly, they were not dealing in the truth. (I wonder who they were? [8|] )


And since you will not address the thread topic, and prefer to spend post after post addressing the posters over their race, weight, and so forth... At that age I was 6', 175 pounds, as is normal (and required in the military, law enforcement, etc.).

[image]http://www.heightweightchart.org/images/Height%20Weight%20Chart%20for%20Men.JPG[/image]



.


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl



ROFL

Thats fat to you? What do you weigh? 150 lbs soaking wet?





tazzygirl -> RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter option (7/10/2013 10:16:31 PM)

This thread is about Zimmermen... in case that failed your attention. Posting a photo with the "private lawns" behind him is very much on topic. [;)]

5-5 and 185 lbs...

Franco Columbu Height

At only 5' 5", Franco Columbu is considerably shorter than most bodybuilding competitors, and some publications report his height is only 5' 3". I met him recently and to me he seemed about 5'1" to me.

Franco Columbu Stats Measurements

Franco Columbu, although very short, had measurements that equaled the taller bodybuilders. At a weight of 185 pounds, he claimed his arms measured 19", chest 50", waist 30", thighs 26", and calves 17 1/2". There have also been reports that his chest measurement was actually 52".

Franco Columbu has some very impressive power lifting statistics. His world records include bench pressing 525 pounds, squatting 655 pounds, and dead lifting 750 pounds.

Height/weight charts and BMI index is an insurance companies wet dream.. and you bought into it.

Z is pudgy... he is far from fat.



Powergamz1 -> RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter option (7/10/2013 10:26:50 PM)

To repeat, the US military and law enforcement require their members to adhere to very similar guidelines (as anyone with any experience with either... or with medicine, would know), claiming that I 'bought into' the insurance companies because I stayed within regs and served honorably, is one of your more bizzare flights of delusion.


In any case, you have successfully painted the picture that you'll resort to any derail to get this thread deleted. Is it so that you can pretend you never posted all the logical howlers you've put in here so far?


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

This thread is about Zimmermen... in case that failed your attention. Posting a photo with the "private lawns" behind him is very much on topic. [;)]

5-5 and 185 lbs...

Franco Columbu Height

At only 5' 5", Franco Columbu is considerably shorter than most bodybuilding competitors, and some publications report his height is only 5' 3". I met him recently and to me he seemed about 5'1" to me.

Franco Columbu Stats Measurements

Franco Columbu, although very short, had measurements that equaled the taller bodybuilders. At a weight of 185 pounds, he claimed his arms measured 19", chest 50", waist 30", thighs 26", and calves 17 1/2". There have also been reports that his chest measurement was actually 52".

Franco Columbu has some very impressive power lifting statistics. His world records include bench pressing 525 pounds, squatting 655 pounds, and dead lifting 750 pounds.

Height/weight charts and BMI index is an insurance companies wet dream.. and you bought into it.

Z is pudgy... he is far from fat.




tazzygirl -> RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter option (7/10/2013 10:32:55 PM)

quote:

To repeat, the US military and law enforcement require their members to adhere to very similar guidelines (as anyone with any experience with either... or with medicine, would know), claiming that I 'bought into' the insurance companies because I stayed within regs and served honorably, is one of your more bizzare flights of delusion.


He is neither military nor law enforcement... so the point is moot. If you are applying for a job, they have the right to make weight conditional.. to a point. This isnt about a job interview.

quote:

In any case, you have successfully painted the picture that you'll resort to any derail to get this thread deleted. Is it so that you can pretend you never posted all the logical howlers you've put in here so far?


Who brought up the "private laws"?

Who brought up the weight?

If you dont like the direction of the discussion, then look in the mirror. [;)]



Powergamz1 -> RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter option (7/10/2013 11:07:58 PM)

So back on topic one more time.

The claim that Zimmerman was fat that night, has been debunked.

The myth that Zimmerman is any more 'white' looking than President Obama or Malcolm X, has been debunked.

The outright fabrication that Zimmerman used the N word in calling the police that night has been debunked, and the media outlet behind it may face sanctions.

The claim that Zimmerman shot Martin from any greater distance inconsistent with the eyewitness accounts, has been laughed to pieces.

The claim that a shot to the torso under those condition would have resulted in a significant amount of blood covering the shooter has been debunked by the laws of physics, and even an elementary knowledge about the human anatomy.

The claim that there were 3 shots, missing bullets, magic voice detecting software, etc... all failed to match the reality.

The claim that Martin was engaged in a crime spree has also failed.

The 'purple drank' homemade codeine claim has no evidence to support it.

The claim that Martin somehow got from the front porch of his Dad's residence to where he was shot in the time available, simply doesn't stand up.

So without all the hype, speculation, arm chair expertise, and 'shoulda, coulda, woulda'.... what's left?

2 men, both where they had every right to be, interacting within a well delineated time frame. Within that time frame, large portions are uncorroborated by video, or eyewitness testimony.

At some point, one of the men receives injuries consistent with a fist fight.

Subsequent to that, he pulls the trigger on his legally carried weapon, and the other man dies very quickly from a single shot... the police arriving within moment to secure the scene.

That's what is reliably known from the evidence introduced at trial so far.

Going back to the OP, manslaughter is very much a lesser included offense in Florida, so the jury has at more than one guilty options, as well as not guilty all the way.



farglebargle -> RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter option (7/11/2013 5:25:42 AM)

The beauty of it, is since Zimmerman killed someone under 18, the sentencing guidelines for manslaughter vs. murder 2 are IDENTICAL. 25 to life either verdict. So why not charge Murder 2, hang 'ill-will' on Zimmerman's own words on the phone, and either way Zimmerman can't prove a REASONABLE apprehension of imminent death or g.b.h. -- especially given all the UNREASONABLE decisions he made that night.

It all is going to hang today on how the Judge instructs the Jury. There's no cut and dried definition of 'provoked', and Zimmerman's following of Martin certainly meets my standard for it -- given the reasonable fear any black male would have walking alone in the south and being followed and chased by an UNIDENTIFIED person at night.

ALL ZIMMERMAN HAD TO DO WAS IDENTIFY HIMSELF! That and not shooting Trayvon Martin while Trayvon Martin was disengaging ( contact on the shirt, not on the body, 90 degree incident angle of gunshot... )



Powergamz1 -> RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter option (7/11/2013 5:39:19 AM)

Are you somehow or another completely misapprehending *aggravated* manslaughter (in Florida, the killing of a child, disabled, or elderly person by culpable negligence, i.e. neglect)?
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0782/Sections/0782.07.html

quote:

1. A caregiver’s failure or omission to provide a child with the care, supervision, and services necessary to maintain the child’s physical and mental health, including, but not limited to, food, nutrition, clothing, shelter, supervision, medicine, and medical services that a prudent person would consider essential for the well-being of the child; or

2. A caregiver’s failure to make a reasonable effort to protect a child from abuse, neglect, or exploitation by another person.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0800-0899/0827/Sections/0827.03.html


And what exactly was Zimmerman's duty to care?



farglebargle -> RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter option (7/11/2013 5:57:55 AM)

What the hell are you talking about?

Florida’s 10-20-Life law imposes enhanced penalties for crimes that involve a firearm.

The law has two primary enhancements:

Any felony in which a firearm is used is reclassified as follows:
In the case of a felony of the first degree, to a life felony;
In the case of a felony of the second degree, to a felony of the first degree; and
In the case of a felony of the third degree, to a felony of the second degree.
For “enumerated” felonies, a Mandatory-Minimum Prison Sentences must be served (day-for-day, no gain time) if the following apply:
Possession of Firearm during commission of the enumerated felony (10 year minimum prison sentence);
Discharge of Firearm during commission of the enumerated felony (20 year minimum prison sentence); and
Discharge of Firearm causes death or great bodily harm during commission of the enumerated felony (25 year minimum prison sentence and maximum sentence of life imprisonment).


If the jury finds that a firearm was used, Manslaughter is reclassified to a First Degree Felony, which increases the maximum sentence up to 30 years in prison or 30 years of probation.



Powergamz1 -> RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter option (7/11/2013 6:02:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

The beauty of it, is since Zimmerman killed someone under 18, the sentencing guidelines for manslaughter vs. murder 2 are IDENTICAL. 25 to life either verdict. So why not charge Murder 2, hang 'ill-will' on Zimmerman's own words on the phone, and either way Zimmerman can't prove a REASONABLE apprehension of imminent death or g.b.h. -- especially given all the UNREASONABLE decisions he made that night.

It all is going to hang today on how the Judge instructs the Jury. There's no cut and dried definition of 'provoked', and Zimmerman's following of Martin certainly meets my standard for it -- given the reasonable fear any black male would have walking alone in the south and being followed and chased by an UNIDENTIFIED person at night.

ALL ZIMMERMAN HAD TO DO WAS IDENTIFY HIMSELF! That and not shooting Trayvon Martin while Trayvon Martin was disengaging ( contact on the shirt, not on the body, 90 degree incident angle of gunshot... )



So in other words, you just completely made up the false claim about minors (along with the lie about Hispanics lynching large numbers of blacks in the South over the years), and are now flinging straw to cover your running away.

.
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

What the hell are you talking about?

Florida’s 10-20-Life law imposes enhanced penalties for crimes that involve a firearm.

The law has two primary enhancements:

Any felony in which a firearm is used is reclassified as follows:
In the case of a felony of the first degree, to a life felony;
In the case of a felony of the second degree, to a felony of the first degree; and
In the case of a felony of the third degree, to a felony of the second degree.
For “enumerated” felonies, a Mandatory-Minimum Prison Sentences must be served (day-for-day, no gain time) if the following apply:
Possession of Firearm during commission of the enumerated felony (10 year minimum prison sentence);
Discharge of Firearm during commission of the enumerated felony (20 year minimum prison sentence); and
Discharge of Firearm causes death or great bodily harm during commission of the enumerated felony (25 year minimum prison sentence and maximum sentence of life imprisonment).


If the jury finds that a firearm was used, Manslaughter is reclassified to a First Degree Felony, which increases the maximum sentence up to 30 years in prison or 30 years of probation.




Hillwilliam -> RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter option (7/11/2013 6:15:53 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

To repeat, the US military and law enforcement require their members to adhere to very similar guidelines

So, why do I see so many fat cops?



Powergamz1 -> RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter option (7/11/2013 6:22:03 AM)

How many of them have you personally inspected?
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

To repeat, the US military and law enforcement require their members to adhere to very similar guidelines

So, why do I see so many fat cops?




Hillwilliam -> RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter option (7/11/2013 6:39:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

How many of them have you personally inspected?
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

To repeat, the US military and law enforcement require their members to adhere to very similar guidelines

So, why do I see so many fat cops?



I've met a lot and trained a few.

Admittedly, the SWAT guys I worked with weren't fat but the rank and file officers were sometimes a bit more than portly.



Powergamz1 -> RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter option (7/11/2013 7:00:10 AM)

Aren't you the one who had no clue about HC, and LC? And in fact claimed that those were legally identical to pointing a gun straight at someone?

Pardon me if I take my information from my *actual* colleagues.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

How many of them have you personally inspected?
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

To repeat, the US military and law enforcement require their members to adhere to very similar guidelines

So, why do I see so many fat cops?



I've met a lot and trained a few.

Admittedly, the SWAT guys I worked with weren't fat but the rank and file officers were sometimes a bit more than portly.




Marc2b -> RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter option (7/11/2013 7:05:27 AM)

quote:

Which has no bearing on this case


A justice system that is part of a long history of racial oppression, that has a long history of giving the shaft to black people, very much has bearing on the case. It has bearing on every case involving black people.



Powergamz1 -> RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter option (7/11/2013 7:05:36 AM)

And on the predictable irony front, the media is now gearing up to assign blame for all the sensationalized misinformation that may have clouded people's ability to get a fair picture of the Zimmerman/Martin case... And who are they blaming? Why 'the media', of course.

http://news.yahoo.com/zimmerman-trial-did-wall-wall-media-coverage-inform-132156096.html;_ylt=ArBAGXLcUYByAm3NSwTHMoDQtDMD;_ylu=X3oDMTByOTY2b3VyBGNvbG8Dc3AyBHBvcwMyBHNlYwNzcgR2dGlkAw--

Did wall-to-wall media coverage inform, or entertain?



Raiikun -> RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter option (7/11/2013 7:07:24 AM)

quote:

It all is going to hang today on how the Judge instructs the Jury. There's no cut and dried definition of 'provoked', and Zimmerman's following of Martin certainly meets my standard for it -- given the reasonable fear any black male would have walking alone in the south and being followed and chased by an UNIDENTIFIED person at night.


Gibbs vs. State defines provoke as "use or threat of force", and because of that definition being left out of jury instructions, the jury was misled to believe a verbal confrontation was provoked. That conviction was overturned for that reason.

Following someone, even approaching and calling him racial slurs, etc, is not provocation in Florida, and to make that clear to the jury, O'Mara has requested the Gibbs definition of provoke be in the instructions.



Marc2b -> RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter option (7/11/2013 7:12:01 AM)

quote:

The physical factors leading to the call were described to the dispatcher that night, race was not one of them, and they were supported by the tox screen results.

And yes, you quite certainly attached the stigma of a racist to Zimmerman, and Zimmerman alone, in contradiction to all available facts.

What you haven't done is back it up with anything rational.


Human history and human nature are well documented and that is all the rationalization I need. I don't know why you are so obsessed with this. I have made it clear that racial animus on Zimmerman's part is my opinion (an opinion well validated by the aforementioned human history and nature). Ultimately, it doesn't matter what his motivations were. The bottom line is and remains: Zimmerman was suspicious of Trayvon when he had no basis to be so and thus created the situation that led to Trayvon's death.



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