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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 8:34:36 AM   
Kana


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

I do.I find it massively insulting to the professionalism of the police/CSI people to presume that because the victim was black,that they did a poor job intentionally.
I think that the idea that most cops would waste their career, throw away a pension,risk imprisonment,not to mention the damage to reputation and family, as well as possible civil repercussions,to try and not do a good job on a case because the color of the victim is ludicrous.Especially in light of the fact that,well,most murder victims in this country are black.In Baltimore as of last week, we've had 126 murders. 118 black, 7white, 1 Latin.In other words,all CSI techs do is process black bodies.They have standards of professionalism.They have a code and ethics they've sworn to support. To imply that they intentionally choose not to do a proper job because the victim was black is to do them a callous injustice.Especially since you have not a single fact to base that accusation on, and it's a damn ugly implication at that.


I dont care if you find it massively insulting. I have posted proof that it DOES happen earlier in this thread. 16 officers in one department did just that... "wasted their career, throw away a pension,risk imprisonment,not to mention the damage to reputation and family, as well as possible civil repercussions,to try and not do a good job on a case because the color of the victim is ludicrous" I find it massively insulting that you believe simply because they are law enforcement officers that they are above the "pale" and shouldnt be questioned.

And you can find it ludicrous all you want... I happen to know it happens that law enforcement can be criminal, they can be fucking lazy, and they can certainly not give a damn about people.

Yeah,and like any careers,there are exceptions and bad cats.But to presume without any evidence that all are doing so is insulting, it is demeaning,and it's wrong. And it belittles you.
We have zero evidence in this case to suggest that such racism occurred. Until said time, it's incorrect and pretty much slander to assume that such racism tainted their actions.Should we be on guard against it?
Yep.
Should we check and see?
Sure.
Have we found anything to imply that race of victim altered the crime scene protocols in this case?
Nope.
Thus, it's wrong to imply so.

That's like saying,hey,in NYC, a bunch of cops attacked a black guy,shot him in the back 37 times-thus,ergo, QED-all cops are racist.
Some are. Some aren't.
But it's inflammatory and a red herring to imply that it occurred here.



< Message edited by Kana -- 7/15/2013 8:38:37 AM >


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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 8:34:49 AM   
BamaD


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Reservations which are the closest thing the US has ever come to concentration camps still exist.

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Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 8:36:32 AM   
BamaD


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A voice of reason in the wilderness.

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Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 8:37:29 AM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

1-There should never have been a trial.The cops called this one right from the start.
2-The parents knew what happened.There was a police report.
3-You are right that Martins lawyer made it into a race case (Which again,why should it be.Its a latin attacking a black-how did whites get drawn into this morass?),and it did come at great cost-the over 1 million dollar settlement that the HOA gave (And,oooooh,I bet they regret settling now),of which the lawyers will get what,somewhere between 40-60%.

Which is what this whole thing REALLY was about.
Gotta get paid.

1- I dont think there should have been a trial either.. but I didnt like how Serino handled the interviews and video walk-thru, etc..
2- I dont know what the parents knew or didnt know.. and the cops obviously left them feeling like they werent getting the full story or that there was a bias in the dept.. someone posted on one of the Zimmy threads that the cops offered Watch Captain Zimmy a car, etc.. so sounds like there was a friendly situation between Zimmy and the cop shop..
3- I think the HOA settlement is a different issue in that the HOA allowed Zimmy to play wannabe cop.. Zimmy was just a tenant, I think its crazy to have a tenant doing that.. the HOA was trying to save money instead of having to pay for a proper security guard/company to do that (this situation would not have happened if they had, Martin would not be dead & they wouldnt have been sued).. while Zimmy should not have been charged, I do feel the HOA is responsible in allowing him to be held up as Watch Captain (especially without rules or controls on him).. they were stupid and paid for that..

And yes, for lawyers its all about the money.. they dont give a rat's ass on right or wrong, just getting paid.. (& I expect O'Mara to get his fat pay day with the Zimmy vs NBC lawsuit)..

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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 8:40:37 AM   
BamaD


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Yes, in Georgia, SYG did not protect the idiot, he clamed it but his clam was thrown out.

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Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 8:43:19 AM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

Yeah,and like any careers,there are exceptions and bad cats.But to presume without any evidence that all are doing so is insulting, it is demeaning,and it's wrong. And it belittles you.
We have zero evidence in this case to suggest that such racism occurred. Until said time, it's incorrect and pretty much slander to assume that such racism tainted their actions.Should we be on guard against it?/ yep.


All investigations begin with a question. I would question this investigation. Race would simply be one question... another would be training.. a third would be laziness... and there could be others.

Why you are so suddenly pissy because I questioned what the hell happened at the scene I have no clue.. nor does it matter. I will still ask if it was race related. I would also question their training. Does that make you feel better that instead of being racists they could just be lazy?

Mistakes happen... thats why mistakes are investigated. Why are you so willing to let these people off the hook? We arent even talking about anything major, they dont know how to process a body at a crime scene?

quote:

That's like saying,hey,in NYC, a bunch of cops attacked a black guy,shot him in the back 37 times-thus,ergo, QED-all cops are racist.
Some are. Some aren't.
But it's inflammatory and a red herring to imply that it occurred here.


And we find out who are by questioning.

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 7/15/2013 8:44:18 AM >


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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 8:43:49 AM   
BamaD


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Yes to me the systemic problem here is about guns, the lack of a witness (the victim's dead), and poor judgment on the part of the killer (or what the next set of facts will look like) backed up by FLA's SYG law (encouraging gun-use/deadly force to resolve inter-personal conflicts.)

How many times to you have to be told that SYG played no part in this.
I seriously doubt that with your head being pounded on cement, or even ground your would stop to review the various legal ramifications.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 8:48:02 AM   
BamaD


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Tell us, why do you keep typing it that way? I know why... but I want you to try and figure it out.

_____________________________
The answer may be found in Star Trek IV     "too much LDS in the 60's"
Other reasons are less charitable.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 1148
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 8:48:55 AM   
pahunkboy


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Zs daddio was some judge or something like that.


For people screaming justice for tm- the jury has spoken. Get rid of the DA who could have made charges that would have stuck.

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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 8:49:41 AM   
Kana


Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

Yeah,and like any careers,there are exceptions and bad cats.But to presume without any evidence that all are doing so is insulting, it is demeaning,and it's wrong. And it belittles you.
We have zero evidence in this case to suggest that such racism occurred. Until said time, it's incorrect and pretty much slander to assume that such racism tainted their actions.Should we be on guard against it?/ yep.


All investigations begin with a question. I would question this investigation. Race would simply be one question... another would be training.. a third would be laziness... and there could be others.

Why you are so suddenly pissy because I questioned what the hell happened at the scene I have no clue.. nor does it matter. I will still ask if it was race related. I would also question their training. Does that make you feel better that instead of being racists they could just be lazy?

Mistakes happen... thats why mistakes are investigated. Why are you so willing to let these people off the hook? We arent even talking about anything major, they dont know how to process a body at a crime scene?

quote:

That's like saying,hey,in NYC, a bunch of cops attacked a black guy,shot him in the back 37 times-thus,ergo, QED-all cops are racist.
Some are. Some aren't.
But it's inflammatory and a red herring to imply that it occurred here.


And we find out who are by questioning.

Sorry-didn't mean to come off as Pissy, T.
Heck,didn't know I was.
You know I try real hard to keep things calm that dialogue can occur,keep attacks and anger out of things.
If it came off that way,it wasn't intended to. Was just kinda rolling with the point/counterpoint thing

ETA-And I agree 100% with the fact that we should question.To fail to do so is irresponsible. But in this case,we've questioned,with multiple agencies and endless scrutiny, and found nada.Thus,my stance.

< Message edited by Kana -- 7/15/2013 8:52:07 AM >


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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 8:50:18 AM   
thishereboi


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fr




Attachment (1)

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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 8:51:30 AM   
Yachtie


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FR-

On Zimmerman and Martin.



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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 8:51:33 AM   
BamaD


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It doesnt have to be "directed" at anyone to produce that reaction in many... thats what you arent getting. Nor is Carlin my guru on what is appropriate to say in public .... he was a fucking comedienne paid to say what he did.. and the more outrageous he was, the more money he made.

ethnic slurs (ethnophaulisms)... An ethnic or racial slur typically caricaturing some identifiable (often physical) feature of the group being derided.

Its intent is to demean and belittle a group of people who are different from you. No matter how you intended it.. that doesnt matter one bit. Cracker.. as in the kind you put a piece of cheese on, holds no power. But direct that towards white people... individually or as a group...has the same effect.

Why do you feel the need to stoop to that level to get your point across? Because you intended to illicit a response.. anger... upset... agitation... what have you... but the intent was the same.

You know sometimes I like the way you talk.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 1153
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 8:54:32 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

Sorry-didn't mean to come off as Pissy, T.
Heck,didn't know I was.
You know I try real hard to keep things calm that dialogue can occur,keep attacks and anger out of things.
If it came off that way,it wasn't intended to. Was just kinda rolling with the point/counterpoint thing


Its ok.. it happens a lot down here. I didnt mean to imply they were all racist... I was simply tossing out a thought I had all along. There were many questions about the way the crime scene and Martin's body was handled. I would like to find out why. The wrong information can send someone to prison who doesnt belong there... or someone free who should be in prison. Many cases rely heavily on the information coming out of an autopsy, but they can only do so much with what they get from the scene.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Kana)
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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 8:55:40 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

You know sometimes I like the way you talk.


LOL provided Im not talking to you?

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 1155
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 8:57:53 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
Okay, I'm going to come to Fargle's defense here. 

"here I am dying of not surprised"
birds of a feather 

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Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Marc2b)
Profile   Post #: 1156
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 9:02:00 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
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Unless this was universally and grossly misreported that case needs to be fixed.
Maybe if she had killed him she would have been better off.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 9:02:41 AM   
Kana


Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

Sorry-didn't mean to come off as Pissy, T.
Heck,didn't know I was.
You know I try real hard to keep things calm that dialogue can occur,keep attacks and anger out of things.
If it came off that way,it wasn't intended to. Was just kinda rolling with the point/counterpoint thing


Its ok.. it happens a lot down here. I didnt mean to imply they were all racist... I was simply tossing out a thought I had all along. There were many questions about the way the crime scene and Martin's body was handled. I would like to find out why. The wrong information can send someone to prison who doesnt belong there... or someone free who should be in prison. Many cases rely heavily on the information coming out of an autopsy, but they can only do so much with what they get from the scene.

Yeah.I'm tight with a Crime Scene Tech who is fascinated by this case.We've done a lot of talking. She's appalled at the use of plastic and a few more things (But nowhere near what she feels re the Italians police in the Amanda Knox case-OMG, she gets downright rabid about them,but I digress...). Otherwise, she doesn't see a ton of mistakes.
I suspect though, that even with DNA evidence is wouldn't have made a difference.

There real questions in this case was:
1-Did M assault Z w/o provocation or did Z through the first punch?

That's something the DNA couldn't answer and really no one could.That's why I said a year ago on these boards that I would love to try this case, sight unseen,simply because I thought the gap of reasonable doubt was large enough to drive a squadron of Panzer tanks through.
I think my exact words were something to the effect of,"If Z's lawyers can't raise reasonable doubt, they should be disbarred for professional incompetence"

In the end,it comes down to "He said,she said." and that ain't enough evidence to convict.

< Message edited by Kana -- 7/15/2013 9:04:45 AM >


_____________________________

"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die. "
HST

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 1158
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 9:05:26 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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There isnt more... its just not polite to discuss it in the South in public.

Not only does she and I disagree with you but so did MLK

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 1159
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 9:06:38 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
Something else no one can answer for me... anywhere... how did Z's nose swelling go down so fast?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Kana)
Profile   Post #: 1160
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