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The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. - 7/17/2013 5:45:17 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
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Status: offline 		There's been a lot of talk about racial discrimination in the Zimmerman case. But there's a very serious bias that is not discussed.

Zimmerman is alive. Martin is not. Under the current US justice system of "innocent until proven guilty", the fact that the deceased cannot provide evidence is HUGE.

Is there any way to counter the fact that a survivor has a big advantage?

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RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. - 7/17/2013 5:47:42 AM   
Hillwilliam


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Status: offline 		"Dead men tell no tales" is a saying as old as humanity.

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RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. - 7/17/2013 5:49:45 AM   
Yachtie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
Is there any way to counter the fact that a survivor has a big advantage?


No. And as Hillwilliam points out, the victor writes the history.

< Message edited by Yachtie -- 7/17/2013 5:50:50 AM >

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RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. - 7/17/2013 5:50:31 AM   
DaddySatyr


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From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Is there any way to counter the fact that a survivor has a big advantage?



There sure is: don't attack people for no reason and there's no reason for you to get dead.

Hope that helps.



Peace and comfort,



Michael

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RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. - 7/17/2013 6:12:37 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
There's been a lot of talk about racial discrimination in the Zimmerman case. But there's a very serious bias that is not discussed.
Zimmerman is alive. Martin is not. Under the current US justice system of "innocent until proven guilty", the fact that the deceased cannot provide evidence is HUGE.
Is there any way to counter the fact that a survivor has a big advantage?


If Trayvon would have survived, this case would have ended up as his word against Zimmerman's. Not exactly much better prospects for a conviction, unless you're going to go for the emotional angle, which, imo, is a very shitty way to run our system of justice.


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RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. - 7/17/2013 6:17:33 AM   
CHF73


Posts: 35
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Status: offline 		Totally agree with Hillwilliam, Yachtie and, of course, DarkSteven

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RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. - 7/17/2013 6:22:53 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
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Status: offline 		The survivor speaks for himself.
An army of cops, investigators, forensics experts, and prosecutors speak for the deceased. In this particular case, the entire lying, evidence-tampering, selectively-reporting mainstream media spoke for the deceased.
How many millions do you think The State spent persecuting Zimmerman?

And you think Zimmerman had the advantage? Seriously?

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RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. - 7/17/2013 6:26:25 AM   
CHF73


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Status: offline 		Well when you have to prove "beyond any reasonable doubt" something only he was present to and survived to tell, it doesn't matter how much money the State spent...he still has the advantage.

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RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. - 7/17/2013 7:00:32 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CHF73

Well when you have to prove "beyond any reasonable doubt" something only he was present to and survived to tell, it doesn't matter how much money the State spent...he still has the advantage.

Well, that depends on the evidence available. There are lots of people in jail who pled not guilty.

K.

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RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. - 7/17/2013 7:11:27 AM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CHF73

Well when you have to prove "beyond any reasonable doubt" something only he was present to and survived to tell, it doesn't matter how much money the State spent...he still has the advantage.


And in this case, at least one of the jurors has spoken out, and it was clear to her anyways that the defense proved George's innocence.

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RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. - 7/17/2013 7:30:52 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


quote:

ORIGINAL: CHF73

Well when you have to prove "beyond any reasonable doubt" something only he was present to and survived to tell, it doesn't matter how much money the State spent...he still has the advantage.


And in this case, at least one of the jurors has spoken out, and it was clear to her anyways that the defense proved George's innocence.


Uh, no. Not the defense's place to prove anything. The prosecution failed to prove his guilt, at least beyond a reasonable doubt. They bore the burden of proof.

_____________________________

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The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

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RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. - 7/17/2013 7:51:52 AM   
Powergamz1


Posts: 1927
Joined: 9/3/2011
Status: offline 		Pleading self defense places some burden of proof on the defense, even if only to supply a coherent narrative that passes the 'reasonably in imminent fear for your life' test.


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven


quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


quote:

ORIGINAL: CHF73

Well when you have to prove "beyond any reasonable doubt" something only he was present to and survived to tell, it doesn't matter how much money the State spent...he still has the advantage.


And in this case, at least one of the jurors has spoken out, and it was clear to her anyways that the defense proved George's innocence.


Uh, no. Not the defense's place to prove anything. The prosecution failed to prove his guilt, at least beyond a reasonable doubt. They bore the burden of proof.



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RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. - 7/17/2013 7:54:40 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
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Status: offline 		Yes just start convicting people on ifs and could haves... you are bound to get a guilty one now and then.

Butch

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RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. - 7/17/2013 7:57:13 AM   
everhope


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Joined: 8/19/2007
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quote:


How many millions do you think The State spent persecuting Zimmerman


i heard reports it cost the state of Florida, $600,000 to prosecute Zimmerman.

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RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. - 7/17/2013 7:59:00 AM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven


quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


quote:

ORIGINAL: CHF73

Well when you have to prove "beyond any reasonable doubt" something only he was present to and survived to tell, it doesn't matter how much money the State spent...he still has the advantage.


And in this case, at least one of the jurors has spoken out, and it was clear to her anyways that the defense proved George's innocence.


Uh, no. Not the defense's place to prove anything. The prosecution failed to prove his guilt, at least beyond a reasonable doubt. They bore the burden of proof.



I didn't say otherwise. But in this case, from that juror's own words, she seemed to feel the defense demonstrated George's actual innocence.

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RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. - 7/17/2013 8:02:56 AM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline 		O'Mara even told the jury that in his closing... Emphasizing that he only needed to show reasonable doubt but at the risk of pissing off defense attorneys everywhere, he would go beyond that, and prove innocence beyond a reasonable doubt.

The juror that spoke out after said she has no concerns with George carrying his firearm again, and said the verdict came down to the last few seconds, and in that few seconds her belief was that George's life was in danger.

Therefore espousing her belief in George's innocence.

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RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. - 7/17/2013 10:05:58 AM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: everhope


quote:


How many millions do you think The State spent persecuting Zimmerman


i heard reports it cost the state of Florida, $600,000 to prosecute Zimmerman.


Later figure said one million.

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RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. - 7/17/2013 10:10:15 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline
quote:

i heard reports it cost the state of Florida, $600,000 to prosecute Zimmerman.


Every tme I hear bullshit like that I want to scream BULLSHIT !

It didn't cost them or anyone a fucking dime, all those people are on salary. If someone wants to claim that they SHOUDL be sitting on their asses doing nothing fine, but they still get paid no mmatter what.

T^T

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RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. - 7/17/2013 10:54:43 AM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		It certainly didn't come across as a $600,000 prosecution, did it?
If pay for state prosecutors was performance related, somebody would be getting a hefty salary cut for next month's payslip...

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RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. - 7/17/2013 11:14:18 AM   
Powergamz1


Posts: 1927
Joined: 9/3/2011
Status: offline 		Oh, they performed well enough... given the bad case they had foisted off on them by the boss that is up for re-election soon.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

It certainly didn't come across as a $600,000 prosecution, did it?
If pay for state prosecutors was performance related, somebody would be getting a hefty salary cut for next month's payslip...



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