RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case.

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RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. - 7/18/2013 3:58:25 AM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Given enough tape you can edit it to "prove MLK was proslavery.
And if edited bits would "prove" he lied then the complete tape would.

No editing. Simply play specific statements by Zimmerman in their entirety. for instance when he told Hannity he didn't know anything about Florida SYG and self defense law. Then the teacher says he got an A on that part of my course and here's my records proving it. Absolutely no need to show the entire Hannity interview.

That is picking and choosing which is editing.
NBC 'proved" that Zimmerman said he was following Martin because he was black by doing exactly what you wanted the prosecution to do.

No. Do you think the prosecution has to show every minute of a taped interview with a suspect that includes a confession? Even if that full interview is 8 or more hours?

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RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. - 7/18/2013 4:18:03 AM

vincentML

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Amazed you guys are arguing the details of the Zimmerman case here same as you did on Zimmerman Unmoderated. Way off topic imo.

< Message edited by vincentML -- 7/18/2013 4:21:52 AM >

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Post #: 62

RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. - 7/18/2013 4:42:11 AM

BamaD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

Amazed you guys are arguing the details of the Zimmerman case here same as you did on Zimmerman Unmoderated. Way off topic imo.

Think so, ok.

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Post #: 63

RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. - 7/18/2013 5:04:52 AM

CHF73

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

quote:

ORIGINAL: CHF73

Well when you have to prove "beyond any reasonable doubt" something only he was present to and survived to tell, it doesn't matter how much money the State spent...he still has the advantage.

And in this case, at least one of the jurors has spoken out, and it was clear to her anyways that the defense proved George's innocence.

Uh, no. Not the defense's place to prove anything. The prosecution failed to prove his guilt, at least beyond a reasonable doubt. They bore the burden of proof.

Exactly! The problem is not what the defense proved (in fact they didn't have or haven't proved anything...) it's just what the prosecutor haven't proved. Is well known since the roman law that proving something happened is way more difficult then simply deny it ever happened. That's also the reason why at times, but only in civil law, there are presumptions: to avoid people having to prove soemthing that is extremely hard or almost impossible to prove and, non the less, true.

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Post #: 64

RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. - 7/18/2013 5:10:57 AM

DaddySatyr

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The real discrimination here is against the Constitution and, by extension; the American people.

In a nutshell: if you're receiving a harmless little dose of "whoop-ass" because some teenager is posturing on the phone for his friend, and has decided that you're a creepy perv, you should just take your "whoop-ass" and shut up.

You should be able to read the little cherub's mind and know that he means you no harm.

Oh, and we've also had a dose of: It doesn't matter if you lie, obfuscate, disobey rules of law, persecute and slander as long as you "mean well".

Peace and comfort,

Michael

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RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. - 7/18/2013 6:27:14 AM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

The real discrimination here is against the Constitution and, by extension; the American people.

In a nutshell: if you're receiving a harmless little dose of "whoop-ass" because some teenager is posturing on the phone for his friend, and has decided that you're a creepy perv, you should just take your "whoop-ass" and shut up.

You should be able to read the little cherub's mind and know that he means you no harm.

Oh, and we've also had a dose of: It doesn't matter if you lie, obfuscate, disobey rules of law, persecute and slander as long as you "mean well".

So in your opinion a fist fight is a capital crime?

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Post #: 66

RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. - 7/18/2013 10:02:08 AM

Raiikun

Posts: 2650
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Given enough tape you can edit it to "prove MLK was proslavery.
And if edited bits would "prove" he lied then the complete tape would.

No editing. Simply play specific statements by Zimmerman in their entirety. for instance when he told Hannity he didn't know anything about Florida SYG and self defense law. Then the teacher says he got an A on that part of my course and here's my records proving it. Absolutely no need to show the entire Hannity interview.

There were only a few moments in the Hannity interview that marginally benefitted the State. But, due to rule of completeness, the defense was able to insist the entire interview be played.

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Post #: 67

RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. - 7/18/2013 10:04:14 AM

Raiikun

Posts: 2650
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Given enough tape you can edit it to "prove MLK was proslavery.
And if edited bits would "prove" he lied then the complete tape would.

No editing. Simply play specific statements by Zimmerman in their entirety. for instance when he told Hannity he didn't know anything about Florida SYG and self defense law. Then the teacher says he got an A on that part of my course and here's my records proving it. Absolutely no need to show the entire Hannity interview.

That is picking and choosing which is editing.
NBC 'proved" that Zimmerman said he was following Martin because he was black by doing exactly what you wanted the prosecution to do.

No. Do you think the prosecution has to show every minute of a taped interview with a suspect that includes a confession? Even if that full interview is 8 or more hours?

In Florida, if the defense insists, yes. Particularly since the defense might argue that tactics in the interview, including length of interrogation, had a hand in coercing the confession, and Florida statute, as I quoted, allows the defense to insist.

< Message edited by Raiikun -- 7/18/2013 10:06:48 AM >

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Post #: 68

RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. - 7/18/2013 10:10:58 AM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

So in your opinion a fist fight is a capital crime?

So in your opinion the victim of an assault should have to wait until he's dead before pulling the trigger?

K.

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Post #: 69

RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. - 7/18/2013 10:13:23 AM

Phydeaux

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Given enough tape you can edit it to "prove MLK was proslavery.
And if edited bits would "prove" he lied then the complete tape would.

No editing. Simply play specific statements by Zimmerman in their entirety. for instance when he told Hannity he didn't know anything about Florida SYG and self defense law. Then the teacher says he got an A on that part of my course and here's my records proving it. Absolutely no need to show the entire Hannity interview.

That is picking and choosing which is editing.
NBC 'proved" that Zimmerman said he was following Martin because he was black by doing exactly what you wanted the prosecution to do.

No. Do you think the prosecution has to show every minute of a taped interview with a suspect that includes a confession? Even if that full interview is 8 or more hours?

In Florida, if the defense insists, yes. Particularly since the defense might argue that tactics in the interview, including length of interrogation, had a hand in coercing the confession, and Florida statute, as I quoted, allows the defense to insist.

Look, its pointless to argue with DomKen. He said the prosecution did a bad job presenting the tapes in their entirety. I said, no the defense would probably compel it anyway. But of course DomKen knows better than the litigators. Forget what the Florida Statute says.

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Post #: 70

RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. - 7/18/2013 10:40:47 AM

DaddySatyr

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

So in your opinion a fist fight is a capital crime?

So in your opinion the victim of an assault should have to wait until he's dead before pulling the trigger?

K.

Yes. From now on, anyone wearing a hoody and carrying Skittles will be allowed to assault anyone they chose as long as they have condemned them for being a "creepy-ass, white, kill-my-neighbors cracker" or, alternatively, if their homophobic index registers past a "3" on the "I'm not sure of my own sexuality" scale (or a "5" on the "I'm gonna impress dis bitch and git me some pussy" scale).

Hope that helped.

Peace and comfort,

Michael

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Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

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RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. - 7/18/2013 11:08:51 AM

JeffBC

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Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
Is there any way to counter the fact that a survivor has a big advantage?

Heh... my cynical answer?

As I understand these laws (which is of course imperfectly at best), it seems the obvious solution is for another more sane gun owner to just go get anywhere near Zimmerman then gun his ass down saying, "I felt threatened." Given that Zimmerman has a proven track record of killing random people it doesn't seem like that much of a stretch.

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Post #: 72

RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. - 7/18/2013 11:16:31 AM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Given enough tape you can edit it to "prove MLK was proslavery.
And if edited bits would "prove" he lied then the complete tape would.

No editing. Simply play specific statements by Zimmerman in their entirety. for instance when he told Hannity he didn't know anything about Florida SYG and self defense law. Then the teacher says he got an A on that part of my course and here's my records proving it. Absolutely no need to show the entire Hannity interview.

That is picking and choosing which is editing.
NBC 'proved" that Zimmerman said he was following Martin because he was black by doing exactly what you wanted the prosecution to do.

No. Do you think the prosecution has to show every minute of a taped interview with a suspect that includes a confession? Even if that full interview is 8 or more hours?

In Florida, if the defense insists, yes. Particularly since the defense might argue that tactics in the interview, including length of interrogation, had a hand in coercing the confession, and Florida statute, as I quoted, allows the defense to insist.

You really need to actually read the statute. It is much narrower than you believe.

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Post #: 73

RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. - 7/18/2013 11:17:51 AM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

So in your opinion a fist fight is a capital crime?

So in your opinion the victim of an assault should have to wait until he's dead before pulling the trigger?

K.

He should have to wait until there is a reasonable reason to believe his opponents intent is to cause imminent death or great bodily harm. You cannot just shoot someone because you are a pants pissing coward who is losing a fist fight.

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Post #: 74

RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. - 7/18/2013 11:57:48 AM

Phydeaux

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

So in your opinion a fist fight is a capital crime?

So in your opinion the victim of an assault should have to wait until he's dead before pulling the trigger?

K.

He should have to wait until there is a reasonable reason to believe his opponents intent is to cause imminent death or great bodily harm. You cannot just shoot someone because you are a pants pissing coward who is losing a fist fight.

Lets take two cases:
In case "A" you have a society where people are allowed to assault people and get their hands spanked "if" the police witness it, if it is corroborated, trial etc.

Society "B" you have a place where people are entitle to defend themselves, and are subjected to scrutiny (in the form of a trial) with jeopardy of going to jail for potentially life if you make a mistake.

Which society do you prefer to live in.

I'll take "B" everyday, and twice on Sundays.

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Post #: 75

RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. - 7/18/2013 12:30:31 PM

Raiikun

Posts: 2650
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Given enough tape you can edit it to "prove MLK was proslavery.
And if edited bits would "prove" he lied then the complete tape would.

No editing. Simply play specific statements by Zimmerman in their entirety. for instance when he told Hannity he didn't know anything about Florida SYG and self defense law. Then the teacher says he got an A on that part of my course and here's my records proving it. Absolutely no need to show the entire Hannity interview.

That is picking and choosing which is editing.
NBC 'proved" that Zimmerman said he was following Martin because he was black by doing exactly what you wanted the prosecution to do.

No. Do you think the prosecution has to show every minute of a taped interview with a suspect that includes a confession? Even if that full interview is 8 or more hours?

In Florida, if the defense insists, yes. Particularly since the defense might argue that tactics in the interview, including length of interrogation, had a hand in coercing the confession, and Florida statute, as I quoted, allows the defense to insist.

You really need to actually read the statute. It is much narrower than you believe.

You really need to read the statute. It is much broader than you believe. And we saw it at work in the Zimmerman trial, those of us that watched it.

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Post #: 76

RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. - 7/18/2013 12:33:50 PM

Raiikun

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And again, the actual statute:

Florida Statute 90.108

Introduction of related writings or recorded statements.—
(1) When a writing or recorded statement or part thereof is introduced by a party, an adverse party may require him or her at that time to introduce any other part or any other writing or recorded statement that in fairness ought to be considered contemporaneously. An adverse party is not bound by evidence introduced under this section.

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Post #: 77

RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. - 7/18/2013 12:35:06 PM

papassion

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Everyone here has heard about or even had a relative who fell, bumped their head, seemed fine, no bleeding, no apparent injury, die a couple of days later from a brain injury. Punching, wrestling around, that's fighting, Intentionally pounding someone's head onto concrete is attempting potentially PERMANENT damage.

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Post #: 78

RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. - 7/18/2013 1:02:44 PM

Nosathro

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It would be interesting to see if these two guys are acquitted. I think it would be more proof of the racism and biased in the US.

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/07/17/2308681/stand-your-ground-south-carolina/?mobile=nc

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2013/07/trayvon-martin-jordan-davis-stand-your-ground

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Post #: 79

RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. - 7/18/2013 2:01:39 PM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

So in your opinion a fist fight is a capital crime?

So in your opinion the victim of an assault should have to wait until he's dead before pulling the trigger?

K.

He should have to wait until there is a reasonable reason to believe his opponents intent is to cause imminent death or great bodily harm. You cannot just shoot someone because you are a pants pissing coward who is losing a fist fight.

Lets take two cases:
In case "A" you have a society where people are allowed to assault people and get their hands spanked "if" the police witness it, if it is corroborated, trial etc.

Society "B" you have a place where people are entitle to defend themselves, and are subjected to scrutiny (in the form of a trial) with jeopardy of going to jail for potentially life if you make a mistake.

Which society do you prefer to live in.

I'll take "B" everyday, and twice on Sundays.

You have the right to defend yourself. However you must reserve the use of deadly force for situations where your life is imminently in danger. Losing a fist fight does not count.

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Post #: 80