RE: Do you use spanking/whipping as punishment?

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tammystarm -> RE: Do you use spanking/whipping as punishment? (7/20/2013 3:36:39 PM)
Focus50, Every post you make blows my mind, in the way that almost every post I've ever notice that you've wrote reminds me of who Arturas is. Moonlight, I am to sure if I wish Arturas could have seen the OCD me or not, lol. He loves a museum look, me i grew up in one and had one until 10 yrs ago. I must say, I feel more comfortable with a perfectly clean, organized home, but this is cozy too!! Have thought of becoming poly with an OCD chic, but I think we could early stroke her out! Lol

SimplyMichael -> RE: Do you use spanking/whipping as punishment? (7/20/2013 5:30:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Focus50 quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael Focus, Its not a matter of handling it when i am angry, its more a matter of self examination to understand what issues underlie whatever it is that drove the anger and working on that. Hope that helps. Hardly! lol But that's when it is about me. This topic basically asks when your sub does something worthy of some form of punishment - which I reason as her making me angry rather than me already being in a mood - how do you handle that? Not much point "internalising" if she's taking it to the extreme and being an overt brat. Focus. I sit her ass down and figure out what's going on, seems pretty simple to me. As for "internalizing" I meant it in a very specific way. I love to drive fast, I ONLY slow down when I worry about cops, the need to drive slow is NOT internalized for me, I have no inner need to obey the speed limit, I only do it to avoid punishment. Same goes for behavior I don't like, I want to know what causes the behavior and I want to address it in a way that gets her to see why it is undesirable and to internalize the change so that she now ON HER OWN sees the behavior as undesirable, not simply stops doing it when I am "watching" so to speak. Anger is a real emotion. And that there is a difference between you just being in a mood as opposed to someone causing that reaction with a single act. I've found the latter to be more explosive and if it's my girl's actions that's done it, there's no way I'm taking to her with a flogger for it. I like inflicting pain but I'd just die if I hurt her. To wait until later (when I've cooled down) ranks of revenge or a grudge etc and I won't do that to her. And sucking it up and letting it go (internalising) is how a dom creates a brat, IMO. Focus. Anger is a real emotion but it isn't a primary one, you are angry because of X, and in that case X may be a primary emotion or may in turn be caused by something else. Yes, stuffing down emotions and "internalizing them" in that context is NOT good but its two very different meanings of the word. As for how to use punishment to shape behavior, it certainly does have its uses but the best ones are counter intuitive and are rarely the bend over and get spanked/flogged. The arched eyebrow, the minor correction are often vastly more effective. Small subtle corrections do not evoke feelings of resentment and get internalized past emotional filters that tend to start evaluating how "reasonable" the correction is.

BossyShoeBitch -> RE: Do you use spanking/whipping as punishment? (7/20/2013 10:16:17 PM)
First of all, I think there are alot of people here mixing up the words "punishment" and "discipline". Secondly, punishment doled out in anger is not something that anyone should be doing, to a sub, slave (or um). But consequences that have been clearly discussed ahead of time, and administered with a calm, cool head and a loving hand can work wonders to help said sub/slave be more mindful of their behavior and get closure (IMHO).

SimplyMichael -> RE: Do you use spanking/whipping as punishment? (7/21/2013 3:37:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BossyShoeBitch First of all, I think there are alot of people here mixing up the words "punishment" and "discipline". Thanks for the thoughtful post. Can you explain how you and your partner define the difference? Is discipline his primary way of shaping your behavior or simply one of many?

SunTzuSwe -> RE: Do you use spanking/whipping as punishment? (7/21/2013 3:52:14 PM)
I'm happy that my thread got so much attention and I'm glad that most people here seems to share my thoughts and feelings on the matter. :)

Focus50 -> RE: Do you use spanking/whipping as punishment? (7/22/2013 3:20:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael I sit her ass down and figure out what's going on, seems pretty simple to me. As for "internalizing" I meant it in a very specific way. I love to drive fast, I ONLY slow down when I worry about cops, the need to drive slow is NOT internalized for me, I have no inner need to obey the speed limit, I only do it to avoid punishment. Same goes for behavior I don't like, I want to know what causes the behavior and I want to address it in a way that gets her to see why it is undesirable and to internalize the change so that she now ON HER OWN sees the behavior as undesirable, not simply stops doing it when I am "watching" so to speak. Figure out what's going on? To me, if her poor behaviour is a rare anomaly, then she's got some explaining to do, and likely consequences. If it's a continuing pattern, then us and the whole relationship comes under scrutiny. With this particular topic in mind, she doesn't get punished for the latter because there's bigger considerations at stake. My experience is that if you ignore the anomaly, you end up with the continuing pattern. Nip it in the bud, as the saying goes.... With your speeding analogy in mind, I'm somewhat curious about your rant of "weak" doms who "aren't in control" etc. Beyond getting fined, you are aware there's reasons why speeding is a punishable offence? And "control" being one of those factors? But you only internalise it to a point of "it's ok as long as I don't get caught"? Seems to me that's about the worst possible lesson to be teaching anyone - me being an "actions speak louder than words" kinda person and dom...! quote: As for how to use punishment to shape behavior, it certainly does have its uses but the best ones are counter intuitive and are rarely the bend over and get spanked/flogged. The arched eyebrow, the minor correction are often vastly more effective. Small subtle corrections do not evoke feelings of resentment and get internalized past emotional filters that tend to start evaluating how "reasonable" the correction is. Yes, probably the "stare" or a particular tone in my voice is the most common form of corrective action I take with my girl. Not so much punishment as discipline. BossyShoeBitch has made a distinction between the two, but they are differing degrees of the same thing, IMO. I rather enjoy those opportunities to correct the girl with a look; a reminder that I'm watching and the one in charge etc but I don't enjoy it at all if it's led to me actually becoming angry. That'll get her banished and ignored etc. I don't actually call it "punishment" nor refer to me/us as having a formal punishment dynamic but it is what it is and she knows what it means. Punishment or discipline has to have consequences. We probably all know at least one parent whose idea of discipline/punishment never extends beyond "I'm warning you..." and of how even a 3yo quickly learns how hollow those words are when that's all there is. But I digress.... Surely I'm missing something when you say (or don't actually say?) whether you punish in some form or other? If "internalising" is all you've got, does that not amount to sulking? Bearing in mind you've been quick to generically call other doms "weak" and "not in control" etc. 'Cause sulking really doesn't present as particularly domly - or "strong" - or "in control".... And don't take this the wrong way as it's not the first time I've wondered after reading your posts but, you are a dom, right, as opposed to.... switch? Focus.

Focus50 -> RE: Do you use spanking/whipping as punishment? (7/22/2013 3:34:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tammystarm Focus50, Every post you make blows my mind, in the way that almost every post I've ever notice that you've wrote reminds me of who Arturas is. Ok, respond to this...? lol Yanno, it's a LOT easier when it's some dom or collective mob calling me a bunch of names! As lame as it seems in this instance, thankyou. [:)] And clearly Arturas is bright and insightful fella. [;)] Focus.

MistressDarkArt -> RE: Do you use spanking/whipping as punishment? (7/22/2013 3:38:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonlightmaddnes Someone once told me their punishment was they had to sit in the chair while the house was messed up and they could not clean it up. Great idea to try on S! He's so incredibly OCD this would be absolute torture for him. Heck, I might put him in bondage, set a timer, then deliberately crumble a few crackers and smear a little peanut butter onto the kitchen floor while he watches. [:D] I think he'd be crying uncle in less than 5 minutes. To answer the OP: nope. The boys are both in their 50s. If I have to whip 'em for punishment I might as well dominate 18 year olds. [:'(][:'(][:'(]

SimplyMichael -> RE: Do you use spanking/whipping as punishment? (7/22/2013 3:53:16 PM)
Focus, we aren't getting anywhere, i am done with this thread.

NuevaVida -> RE: Do you use spanking/whipping as punishment? (7/22/2013 6:02:28 PM)
~ Fast Reply ~ We have a punishment dynamic, but punishment is extremely rare; I can't even remember the last time it happened. Like others have said, we talk things out. But even if he feels like punishing me (and it's been with a whip before, it's also been through other means before), that doesn't negate the talking. There is always talking, always getting to the bottom of what the hell happened and why. If you don't understand why something took place, you can't really prevent it from happening again. As for the punishing in anger discussion...if it's controlled anger I really don't see anything wrong with it. Anger is anger - it's one of many emotions. If he controls the anger rather than letting it control him, it doesn't really matter WHAT he does while angry; it will be fine. So often it seems people associate anger with something out of their control, but that's not the case here. In any case, he jokes with me about punishing me from time to time ("I oughta beat you for that") but he rarely does. And if he chooses to, well he obviously has his reasons for it. Like Jeff mentioned, mostly we just hate that there's a disconnect, and we work on reconnecting.

Moonlightmaddnes -> RE: Do you use spanking/whipping as punishment? (7/22/2013 6:19:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NuevaVida ~ Fast Reply ~ In any case, he jokes with me about punishing me from time to time ("I oughta beat you for that") but he rarely does. And if he chooses to, well he obviously has his reasons for it. Mine does too. We live in a small town of about 1200 people. We pulled into Dollar General and it started pouring down rain. He is always holding doors for me and does not run ahead of me to get out of the rain. So while I was trying to hurry and pull the baby out of the back seat he was standing behind me getting soaked. He growled at me to hurry up or he would beat my ass good. This woman on the sidewalk heard him and gave us the weirdest look. I cracked up laughing imagining her trying to figure out if he was serious or not. If we were going to have fun that night he was. ;)

NuevaVida -> RE: Do you use spanking/whipping as punishment? (7/22/2013 6:31:09 PM)
Heh, yeah he jokes in front of (non-BDMSy) friends that he oughta beat my ass for this or that. They just laugh. Typically though, if he beats my ass, it's for fun.

Focus50 -> RE: Do you use spanking/whipping as punishment? (7/22/2013 7:22:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael Focus, we aren't getting anywhere, i am done with this thread. Yep - the ol' cut n run - speaking of reasons why I've previously wondered.... <shrugs> Focus.

SimplyMichael -> RE: Do you use spanking/whipping as punishment? (7/23/2013 7:05:03 PM)
Focus, BSB dumped me years ago, there really is no need to keep dragging her into this... As for for shaping behavior i am going to give you one last chance to grasp the concepts i am talking about. You want a woman to do X, so you do Y, and Y gets her to do X for one of two reasons. She does X because she is afraid of Y OR as a result of you doing Y she decides she prefers doing X. Getting her to adopt X as her prefered choice is her "internalizing" the change. If that doesn't help, i got nothing more for you.

kalikshama -> RE: Do you use spanking/whipping as punishment? (7/23/2013 7:48:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Focus50 I "punish" her by banishing her from my presence until I've at least cooled down. Not so much an active punishment dynamic as the withdrawal of all attention toward her. I've found that to be most effective on the submissive mindset. This would certainly be effective with me!

NuevaVida -> RE: Do you use spanking/whipping as punishment? (7/23/2013 9:26:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kalikshama quote: ORIGINAL: Focus50 I "punish" her by banishing her from my presence until I've at least cooled down. Not so much an active punishment dynamic as the withdrawal of all attention toward her. I've found that to be most effective on the submissive mindset. This would certainly be effective with me! This has the opposite affect on me.

SunTzuSwe -> RE: Do you use spanking/whipping as punishment? (7/24/2013 12:16:36 AM)
Looking on behavioural science and the animal world, being shunned/ignored by the group/pack is one of the severest discipline actions there is. Seeing how people react to rejection in any form tells me we've not evolved that much from the animals in this regard. I can see one beneficial use of corporal punishement but it's not what first comes to mind. If you feel guilty of upsetting someone it's easy to transfer your fears and emotions unto him/her making it hard to let go. Corporal punishment is a physical means to releasing your sub from the guilt by saying that once the punishment is done the matter is dropped. No fear lingering... Caning as in discipline comes natural to me but when I started the thread I was mainly thinking of utilising a fear dynamic for real which imo isn't all that great. I want my sub to love me not fear me. In my experience, the sub want's to please the dom making serious hard real punishments unnecessary. It's much better to talk it out... Than again, before you know it you meet someone and suddenly it's the right thing to do. Never say never...

Focus50 -> RE: Do you use spanking/whipping as punishment? (7/24/2013 12:25:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael Focus, BSB dumped me years ago, there really is no need to keep dragging her into this... Geeezus, I made a reference to her own post in this very thread - right between 2 of your posts, actually. ie, she dragged herself in here! quote: As for for shaping behavior i am going to give you one last chance to grasp the concepts i am talking about. You want a woman to do X, so you do Y, and Y gets her to do X for one of two reasons. She does X because she is afraid of Y OR as a result of you doing Y she decides she prefers doing X. Getting her to adopt X as her prefered choice is her "internalizing" the change. If that doesn't help, i got nothing more for you. Oh no, not my very last chance???? lol You're talking about consequences that aren't physical in nature. I've said myself that I don't mete out physical consequences (eg flogging). You didn't get that? Pardon the generalisation but I've often said that subs by nature are attention junkies and that IMO, the most effective form of "punishment" is to withdraw my attention when she's done something to anger me. Floggings etc are giving attention, even as a punishment. Now, when the girl does anger me (ie, worthy of punishment) and I register my disappointment in her actions by sending her off by herself, you think that's not something she may internalise? Because it's not been something that promotes repetitive bad behaviour.... Focus.

Focus50 -> RE: Do you use spanking/whipping as punishment? (7/24/2013 12:31:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NuevaVida quote: ORIGINAL: kalikshama quote: ORIGINAL: Focus50 I "punish" her by banishing her from my presence until I've at least cooled down. Not so much an active punishment dynamic as the withdrawal of all attention toward her. I've found that to be most effective on the submissive mindset. This would certainly be effective with me! This has the opposite affect on me. But but but, one size fits all, surely? [8\|] Focus.

Focus50 -> RE: Do you use spanking/whipping as punishment? (7/24/2013 12:48:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SunTzuSwe Corporal punishment is a physical means to releasing your sub from the guilt by saying that once the punishment is done the matter is dropped. No fear lingering... Yeah, but the discipline for the dom there is to follow through - that it really has to be dropped and the sub forgiven. Fine in theory but there are those who hold onto resentment. Me, I don't have such a simple switch to throw. If it's made me angry, it needs its own time to go away. I've been known to ignore my girl (as punishment) for 3-4 hours but even after, I can't pretend I'm as cheery as I was before she infringed. Yeah, officially or formally, she's forgiven and I say as much, but the original mood needs more time. The ol' "forgive and forget" is a good example - who really forgets that which polarises a personal relationship? So I tell her she's forgiven; the clean slate etc - but I also tell her that the mood/demeanour etc takes a bit longer. Anyone that's ever had a fight within a vanilla relationship can appreciate that. And yeah, I don't do fear as a consequence. That's best to play on her own anticipation of D/s to come, not any punishment. Focus.

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