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[Poll]

Who are more free... Americans or Europeans

Americans have more freedoms

37% (22)

Europeans have more freedoms

35% (21)

Both are about as free as eachother

27% (16)

Total Votes : 59

(last vote on : 8/22/2013 9:34:29 AM)
(Poll will run till: -- )

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Who are more free... Americans or Europeans - 7/20/2013 12:17:35 AM

crazyml

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America is the land of the free, and many Americans are, rightly, proud of this repuation. But is it actually true?

Who do you think has more liberty - people that live in the USA or people that live in Europe

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Post #: 1

RE: Who are more free... Americans or Europeans - 7/20/2013 1:12:45 AM

jlf1961

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Lets see, there were the patriot acts, the establishment of secret courts for terrorist and drug related crimes...

And in Europe, I dont know.

The question I have is simple, is anyone really free?

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Post #: 2

RE: Who are more free... Americans or Europeans - 7/20/2013 1:32:29 AM

eulero83

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Europe is not a nation, so it's futile to talk about it as such, I answered both the same becuase real differences are not in term of personal freedom, governaments are more invasive in one or another aspect of private citizen's life depending on the nation, but this almost compensate, what I see as big difference in western europe and in the usa is that after ww2 in europe discussion changed subject from personal freedom and governament rights to pubblic administration's and society as a whole's obbligations to the individual, while in the usa political and social discussion was still more centered on the governament-private relationship and on racial discrimination issues.
But this is just the idea I have I'm not an international sociologist.

(in reply to crazyml)

Post #: 3

RE: Who are more free... Americans or Europeans - 7/20/2013 1:37:43 AM

MrRodgers

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It has been suggested that westerners all are free to choose their own lenders, owners and employers, i.e., profiteers. That suggestion goes on to inform we enjoy freedoms now that are slipping away including time not working for a profit in some manner.

Yes, all are free to try and start their own business. Yes, all have been free to be seduced by the consumption society. Yes, all are free to travel to and from.

I however do believe that these freedoms have already become more expensive in many small freedoms gone and the remaining...purchased at an ever increasing price if we keep them at all.

(in reply to jlf1961)

Post #: 4

RE: Who are more free... Americans or Europeans - 7/20/2013 2:41:37 AM

SadistDave

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~FR~

It's all relative. In America we pay very low taxes and buy services individually in competetive markets. We keep most of the money we earn so we can make personal choices and spend most of our money how we want to spend it. That is our freedom. Most European countries have higher taxes, and many of their choices are severely limited, but they're guaranteed certain services. Paying more in taxes in exchange for those guaranteed services is their freedom. It's not a matter of better or worse as much as point of view.

Compare the European rail system to the American highway system. We've been working on our respective national transportation systems for many decades. In America you can drive anywhere you want, when you want, stop where you want along the way, etc.., but you have to pay for all the transportation costs (gas, maintenance, etc.) yourself for every trip you take on an American highway. In Europe you can ride a train that is reliable, cheap transportation, the trains run pretty much on time, and even though they don't stop at every possible tourist trap along the route, they stop in almost every town. Both are good systems, but which one is better is really just a personal choice.

-SD-

< Message edited by SadistDave -- 7/20/2013 2:42:16 AM >

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Post #: 5

RE: Who are more free... Americans or Europeans - 7/20/2013 3:21:29 AM

MrBukani

Posts: 1920
Joined: 4/18/2010
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Without any doubt americans.

You can buy a gun legal and illegal much easier.
You can stand your ground legal

You can start a business more easy.
You can do just about anything far more easy then in europe.
You can date more easy
You can fuck more easy
You can build your own house more easy.
You can die more easy

You can gamble more easy
You can trade more easy
tax is easier...

< Message edited by MrBukani -- 7/20/2013 3:23:20 AM >

(in reply to SadistDave)

Post #: 6

RE: Who are more free... Americans or Europeans - 7/20/2013 3:28:37 AM

Politesub53

Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
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I`m not sure there is too much of a difference, at least between the UK and the USA. I cant speak for Europe as a whole as I dont know.

Jeff, here we have RIPA it is equivalent to the Patriot Act but has been misused in the past.

There are other freedoms as well though, most Europeans dont need to carry a gun to feel safe. I`m not on about the right to do so, just the fact we dont feel we need to.

Europeans can walk into any hospital and get free treatment, even if you are in another country... Would I swap that for the sake of a bit less tax..........No, not in a million years.

(in reply to SadistDave)

Post #: 7

RE: Who are more free... Americans or Europeans - 7/20/2013 5:29:53 AM

eulero83

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I know you are ironic but I want to answer like you are seriuos for further discussion

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

Without any doubt americans.

You can buy a gun legal and illegal much easier.

easier yes but if you want a gun you can buy without too many restrictions here there are old hunters they can't see enough for driving but they go shouting in the woods

quote:

You can stand your ground legal
You can start a business more easy.

depends on the country you are talking about

quote:

You can do just about anything far more easy then in europe.

not drinking for sure as you are not allowed till 21

quote:

You can date more easy
You can fuck more easy

in many european country prostitution is legal and age of consent is 14

quote:

You can build your own house more easy.

depends on the country, and by the way in some country depends only on birbe or being related to the right local politician

quote:

You can die more easy
You can gamble more easy

I can legally gamble (sport, horses, slot machines, lottery) at every corner in my city and also from my home or by phone playing online poker among the other things and this is still forbidden out nevada and new jersey for what I know.

quote:

You can trade more easy
tax is easier...

not everywhere but mostly yes

(in reply to MrBukani)

Post #: 8

RE: Who are more free... Americans or Europeans - 7/20/2013 5:30:37 AM

pahunkboy

Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
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GREAT THREAD- but OMG people!

America, despite my bashing of US policy- is the BEST on the Planet. I would never leave America.

With out a doubt America is the free-ish nation on the planet.

Yes I hate US policy, the erosion of rights- but we are still the becon of light- the city on the hill.

The EU has too many regs- there is a class system of sorts- in the US if you dont like your lot in life- even today it IS possible to move on up.

(in reply to Politesub53)

Post #: 9

RE: Who are more free... Americans or Europeans - 7/20/2013 5:40:38 AM

eulero83

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Joined: 11/4/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SadistDave

Compare the European rail system to the American highway system. We've been working on our respective national transportation systems for many decades. In America you can drive anywhere you want, when you want, stop where you want along the way, etc.., but you have to pay for all the transportation costs (gas, maintenance, etc.) yourself for every trip you take on an American highway. In Europe you can ride a train that is reliable, cheap transportation, the trains run pretty much on time, and even though they don't stop at every possible tourist trap along the route, they stop in almost every town. Both are good systems, but which one is better is really just a personal choice.

I really don't understand what you mean with this, is the whole point in america you don't pay a toll on higways and trains are more expensive?
because every european country has a highway system in germany is free, in other countries is very cheep like in asutria, in Italy is expensive but highways are very high quality, trains are better in other countries but also more expensive and changing from a long ride train with a local train from the closest city you can stop almost at every small town. But both peronal and pubblic trasportation are granted.

(in reply to SadistDave)

Post #: 10

RE: Who are more free... Americans or Europeans - 7/20/2013 8:53:31 AM

Moonhead

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Joined: 9/21/2009
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I'm glad that you've pointed out that it varies from country to country: that saves me pointing out that many Americans are apparently free to be so fucking clueless that they talk like there's a single legal system across the whole of Europe.

< Message edited by Moonhead -- 7/20/2013 8:54:11 AM >

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Post #: 11

RE: Who are more free... Americans or Europeans - 7/20/2013 9:01:14 AM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
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Being a free speech kind of guy, that's an easy answer.

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Post #: 12

RE: Who are more free... Americans or Europeans - 7/20/2013 9:25:13 AM

JeffBC

Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml
Who do you think has more liberty - people that live in the USA or people that live in Europe

Tough call. I didn't respond to the poll because I honestly do not know. I have some idea what's going on in the US and it's hard to think of the most incarcerated nation on earth as being particularly good at "liberty". Then again, the forces driving such things are global in nature. I have a hard time believing any part of "the west" is immune from them.

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Post #: 13

RE: Who are more free... Americans or Europeans - 7/20/2013 11:16:58 AM

PeonForHer

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'Free' and 'Freedom' are so suffused with propaganda-laden meanings that the question can't be answered in a worthwhile way, as far as I can see. I could probably learn to live with the USA's own flavour of constraints on freedoms, just as I've learned to put with the UK's.

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Post #: 14

RE: Who are more free... Americans or Europeans - 7/20/2013 3:35:54 PM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
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With all that E.U. crap, bad gun laws, some being "subjects" failing states, bad currency there's not a lot to think about.

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Post #: 15

RE: Who are more free... Americans or Europeans - 7/20/2013 3:55:27 PM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

With all that E.U. crap, bad gun laws, some being "subjects" failing states, bad currency there's not a lot to think about.

Care to point out any actual "subjects" or indeed any other of the nonsense you claim to be true ?

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 16

RE: Who are more free... Americans or Europeans - 7/20/2013 4:15:01 PM

pahunkboy

Posts: 33061
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From: Central Pennsylvania
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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

With all that E.U. crap, bad gun laws, some being "subjects" failing states, bad currency there's not a lot to think about.

I could not agree with you more. In fact the Crown own all of England. They have a class and title system. All men are not created equal there.

Despite our flaws in the US- the US is the best in the world.

We have a Constitution, specifically the Bill of Rights. In the UK you can be sued for free speech. The EU Constitution is 700 pages long. That is not good.

In fact- if it is a face the UK/EU has more freedom- then we need to secede again!!

Funny thing- when you factor in a central bank- we did not get very far away from Old Europe.

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Post #: 17

RE: Who are more free... Americans or Europeans - 7/20/2013 4:18:26 PM

Politesub53

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Pa.......Ever wondered what most of your Bill Of Rights is based on ?

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Post #: 18

RE: Who are more free... Americans or Europeans - 7/20/2013 4:19:05 PM

Termyn8or

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Joined: 11/12/2005
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FR

You are nowhere near free in either. Not that there are many places any better, and those that are don't just let anyfuckingbody in.

T^T

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Post #: 19

RE: Who are more free... Americans or Europeans - 7/20/2013 4:25:47 PM

Lucylastic

Posts: 40310
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

With all that E.U. crap, bad gun laws, some being "subjects" failing states, bad currency there's not a lot to think about.

I could not agree with you more. In fact the Crown own all of England. They have a class and title system. All men are not created equal there.

Despite our flaws in the US- the US is the best in the world.

We have a Constitution, specifically the Bill of Rights. In the UK you can be sued for free speech. The EU Constitution is 700 pages long. That is not good.

In fact- if it is a face the UK/EU has more freedom- then we need to secede again!!

Funny thing- when you factor in a central bank- we did not get very far away from Old Europe.

LOL and you arent allowed or supposed to set off mylar balloons, or loiter on your bike and what was the other one...oh yeah give your pills away...
you are sooooo free
chortle chortle

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Post #: 20

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