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The Department of Homeland Security says it is illegal ... - 7/26/2013 2:35:48 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		The Department of Homeland Security says it is illegal to freely play music in The United States.

Fact:
The Department of Homeland Security (An agency enacted through the Patriot Act) is now demanding through enforcement from The State Fire Marshalls that ALL LIVE MUSIC PLAYED IN THE UNITED STATES MUST HAVE A PERMIT FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY.

This is an outrage to freedom and the ideals of The American people and our quickly evaporating rights.

This is just the start to the reality of what The Department of Homeland Security is going to do to the American citizens. The DHS is actually saying it is illegal to play music or operate a business where music is played for any reason without paying The Department of Homeland Security, and giving them much personal and private information. If The DHS can regulate the performance of a song where do you think they will stop? The fact is they won’t!

The Department of Homeland Security does not have the jurisdiction to enforce laws in The United States. They have purposefully and misleadingly attached themselves to The Fire Marshall to circumvent American constitutional rights and automatically give themselves jurisdiction in every business in The United States. This is enforced through the Fire Marshall’s inspection of commercial public businesses.

Please stand with me, American Citizens everywhere, and business owners in demanding that we will not allow The Department of Homeland Security in our businesses and homes. We need all US Citizens and our elected officials to stand united against the unlawful abuses of The Department of Homeland Security and this increasingly fascist government. The Patriot Act is the only reason The Department of Homeland Security has any jurisdiction. This is intentional. This is the first bold and aggressive move by them. Please stand with us! Our children and grandchildren need us!

I and my business Folly Moon (a restaurant in downtown Muncie, IN) have a hearing with The Department of Homeland Security at The Indiana State House on Friday Aug. 2nd at 10a.m.

Mike Martin, the owner of Folly Moon, a restaurant in downtown Muncie, IN, claims that the DHS “is actually saying it is illegal to play music or operate a business where music is played for any reason without paying the Department of Homeland Security, and giving them much personal and private information.”

Last April, the Indiana DHS claimed Martin’s business had violated state law by failing to obtain an entertainment permit for live music. Martin charges that the DHS is selectively enforcing the rule in order to “shut down small business with outdated laws.”

He attracted support from Don Marquardt, president of the Indiana Licensed Beverage Association, who told the Muncie Free Press that the law was archaic and outdated and should only apply to night clubs and dance halls which are not restaurants. Marquardt added that the law was part of an assault on small businesses already hit with smoking bans, higher taxes and overzealous health code violations.

http://iamnotanonymousblog.com/?p=216

http://www.infowars.com/homeland-security-is-now-regulating-live-entertainment/

------------------------------------------------------

What do you say now statists? Whose fault is this one? Is it Obama or is it Bush- or is it Ron Paul?

Tell me again why centralization of power is something that I should embrace.

Tell me how being controlled by the feds is a good thing.

Tell me that getting such a federal permit does not add cost to the event.

Tell me that it isnt happening.

Remind me on when you said- the TSA is a good thing and it wont expand beyond the airports.

Tell me again that I am a conspiracy theorist.
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: The Department of Homeland Security says it is ille... - 7/26/2013 2:37:03 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		LOL, no, just no. Its tinfoil.

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RE: The Department of Homeland Security says it is ille... - 7/26/2013 2:55:22 PM   
stef


Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
Status: offline 		Come on Roger, this is insane, even for you.

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RE: The Department of Homeland Security says it is ille... - 7/26/2013 3:04:24 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline 		I'm afraid it isn't tinfoil at all.

I know of at least one restaurant in Miami facing the same issue. They are being dunned and fined for the ability to play live music. (The owner has band facilities, and plays after hours).

The good news is these kinds of outrages make it very easy to convert people into independents and/or republicans. The owner and his girfriend are minorities... LOL.. and have gotten dunned again, and again, and again.. and again...

(in reply to stef)
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RE: The Department of Homeland Security says it is ille... - 7/26/2013 3:17:51 PM   
Powergamz1


Posts: 1927
Joined: 9/3/2011
Status: offline 		Pure tin foil hat conspiracy theory nonsense.

If you open up a business, you have to follow the regulations already in place. The OP and other posts are simply ignoring the real world and concocting a comic book fantasy out of bits and pieces of fire safety, paying for copyright licenses to use *other people's music, zoning ordinances, liability to the public when you charge them money, and the fundamental concept of life, that if it doesn't belong to you, it isn't yours to use as you see fit.

You know, grown up stuff.



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RE: The Department of Homeland Security says it is ille... - 7/26/2013 3:26:31 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

Pure tin foil hat conspiracy theory nonsense.

If you open up a business, you have to follow the regulations already in place. The OP and other posts are simply ignoring the real world and concocting a comic book fantasy out of bits and pieces of fire safety, paying for copyright licenses to use *other people's music, zoning ordinances, liability to the public when you charge them money, and the fundamental concept of life, that if it doesn't belong to you, it isn't yours to use as you see fit.

You know, grown up stuff.




Yeah.. except it isn't. They aren't being fined for playing other people's music. They're being fined for playing their own music. The govt hasn't said - you have played this piece and this piece and this piece. They are being told that as a venue that has facilities to play music they must play a fee for the ability (whether used or not) to play any kind of music.

(in reply to Powergamz1)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: The Department of Homeland Security says it is ille... - 7/26/2013 3:33:42 PM   
Powergamz1


Posts: 1927
Joined: 9/3/2011
Status: offline 		There are no government agents in Miami extorting money from honest club owners for writing their own music and playing it themselves in their establishment.

ASCAP and BMI aren't the government, they are private collection agencies for the musicians who did write that music. The music doesn't belong to the club owners just because they bought a CD, or hired a cover band, or DJ.



quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

Pure tin foil hat conspiracy theory nonsense.

If you open up a business, you have to follow the regulations already in place. The OP and other posts are simply ignoring the real world and concocting a comic book fantasy out of bits and pieces of fire safety, paying for copyright licenses to use *other people's music, zoning ordinances, liability to the public when you charge them money, and the fundamental concept of life, that if it doesn't belong to you, it isn't yours to use as you see fit.

You know, grown up stuff.




Yeah.. except it isn't. They aren't being fined for playing other people's music. They're being fined for playing their own music. The govt hasn't said - you have played this piece and this piece and this piece. They are being told that as a venue that has facilities to play music they must play a fee for the ability (whether used or not) to play any kind of music.




_____________________________

"DOMA is unconstitutional as a deprivation of the equal liberty of persons that is protected by the Fifth Amendment" Anthony McLeod Kennedy

" About damn time...wooot!!' Me

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: The Department of Homeland Security says it is ille... - 7/26/2013 3:53:18 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

I'm afraid it isn't tinfoil at all.

I know of at least one restaurant in Miami facing the same issue. They are being dunned and fined for the ability to play live music. (The owner has band facilities, and plays after hours).

The good news is these kinds of outrages make it very easy to convert people into independents and/or republicans. The owner and his girfriend are minorities... LOL.. and have gotten dunned again, and again, and again.. and again...

Really?

Are you sure they're not being dunned by the local government for a noise regulation violation? Playing after hours in a restaurant is likely well after the quiet regulation limit.

BTW as is usual for all crap coming from the lunatic Alex Jones the OP claim is at best a half truth. The guy is being fined by the state of Indiana for violating a law of the state of Indiana. You can tell this because the guy whining admits it (meeting at the state house not the federal building and specifying the Indiana DHS which does apparently enforce stuff like building safety stuff which is likely what the idiot in Muncie is whining about).

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: The Department of Homeland Security says it is ille... - 7/26/2013 4:15:57 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		It often would work better if you dug a bit deeper, pahunk.

MUNCIE, IN - A local band leader and downtown bar operator is challenging the Indiana Department of Homeland Security's authority to regulate and permit live entertainment.

Last April, IDHS through its fire and building safety division found Mike Martin of the Folly Moon violated state law by failing to obtain an entertainment permit for live music at the downtown establishment.

State law requires places of amusement and entertainment to have permits subject to the inspection of state fire and building inspectors. And the law defines entertainment places as night clubs, dance halls or cabarets.

Martin filed an appeal to the permit, saying he operated a bar and restaurant with occasional music played by his band, The Mike Martin Band, and others.

And in the challenge before an administrative law judge, Martin believed the state was not enforcing the law uniformly, only requiring permits for live music instead of electronic or even Karaoke that is also played at the Moon.

And the law really does not apply to restaurants or bars, he adds, along with concerns that the IDHS is trying to shut down small business with outdated laws.

John Erickson, IDHS spokesman, said it was up to the state to enforce the law.

But Don Marquardt, president of the Indiana Licensed Beverage Association, said the enforcement was just the latest in a series of government action against the food and beverage industry that has been hard hit by taxes, smoking bans and competition by other business.

The entertainment permit law is archaic and outdated, Marquardt said, used to regulate night clubs and dance halls which are not bars and restaurants. The ILBA tried to get the law rewritten a few years ago, asking former lawmaker and now Mayor Dennis Tyler to help. The Legislature never addressed the issue.

Marquardt mentioned another affront to bars and restaurants with excise police enforcing old local health code violations and issuing infractions against owners.

Martin plans to have his day before a judge in August, hoping to stop more expense to local bars and restaurants.

http://www.munciefreepress.com/node/29089

Now, this is an Indiana law....

http://www.in.gov/dhs/2795.htm

And its a state level DHS.

The Indiana Department of Homeland Security will provide statewide leadership, exemplary customer service, and subject matter expertise for the enhancement of public and private partnerships and the assurance of local, state and federal collaboration to continually develop Indiana’s public safety capabilities for the wellbeing and protection of our citizens, property and economy.

http://www.in.gov/dhs/2358.htm

This is hardly a new law... 2006. And its done through the division of fire safety.

http://www.in.gov/dhs/files/AE_application_42235.pdf

Taking this a bit further....

Indiana Code 22-12-1-23. "Regulated place of amusement or entertainment"

C 22-12-1-23
"Regulated place of amusement or entertainment"
Sec. 23. "Regulated place of amusement or entertainment" refers to the following:
(1) A theater, opera house, movie theater, dance hall, night club with a stage or floor show, or another place that offers an amusement or entertainment to the public for consideration or promotional purposes.
(2) A place where a boxing, sparring, or unarmed combat match or exhibition is conducted under the supervision of the state athletic commission.
(3) A hall, gymnasium, or place of assembly where a school, college, university, social or fraternal organization, lodge, farmers organization, society, labor union, trade association, or church holds any type of amusement.
(4) A public or private place where a regulated amusement device is operated.
As added by P.L.245-1987, SEC.1. Amended by P.L.160-2009, SEC.3.

http://www.lawserver.com/law/state/indiana/in-code/indiana_code_22-12-1-23

As you can clearly see, this is a state law, not a federal one. Making your OP of....

quote:

The Department of Homeland Security says it is illegal to freely play music in The United States.


Completely false.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: The Department of Homeland Security says it is ille... - 7/26/2013 4:19:58 PM   
stef


Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Completely false.

It can't be. Alex Jones said so.

_____________________________

Welcome to PoliticSpace! If you came here expecting meaningful BDSM discussions, boy are you in the wrong place.

"Hypocrisy has consequences"

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: The Department of Homeland Security says it is ille... - 7/26/2013 4:25:31 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Alex needs to get back on his meds

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to stef)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: The Department of Homeland Security says it is ille... - 7/26/2013 4:36:22 PM   
stef


Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Alex needs to get back on his meds

He's not crazy, he just makes his living off of those who are.

_____________________________

Welcome to PoliticSpace! If you came here expecting meaningful BDSM discussions, boy are you in the wrong place.

"Hypocrisy has consequences"

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: The Department of Homeland Security says it is ille... - 7/26/2013 5:35:09 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Thank God it is not illegal. I was worried there for a while.

(in reply to stef)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: The Department of Homeland Security says it is ille... - 7/26/2013 5:47:17 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		It IS illegal, but since it's the state and not the feds it's OK. That's what they're saying.

Fukum anyway, I'll do whatever I damn well please.

T

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: The Department of Homeland Security says it is ille... - 7/26/2013 6:09:59 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

It often would work better if you dug a bit deeper, pahunk.

MUNCIE, IN - A local band leader and downtown bar operator is challenging the Indiana Department of Homeland Security's authority to regulate and permit live entertainment.

Last April, IDHS through its fire and building safety division found Mike Martin of the Folly Moon violated state law by failing to obtain an entertainment permit for live music at the downtown establishment.

State law requires places of amusement and entertainment to have permits subject to the inspection of state fire and building inspectors. And the law defines entertainment places as night clubs, dance halls or cabarets.

Martin filed an appeal to the permit, saying he operated a bar and restaurant with occasional music played by his band, The Mike Martin Band, and others.

And in the challenge before an administrative law judge, Martin believed the state was not enforcing the law uniformly, only requiring permits for live music instead of electronic or even Karaoke that is also played at the Moon.

And the law really does not apply to restaurants or bars, he adds, along with concerns that the IDHS is trying to shut down small business with outdated laws.

John Erickson, IDHS spokesman, said it was up to the state to enforce the law.

But Don Marquardt, president of the Indiana Licensed Beverage Association, said the enforcement was just the latest in a series of government action against the food and beverage industry that has been hard hit by taxes, smoking bans and competition by other business.

The entertainment permit law is archaic and outdated, Marquardt said, used to regulate night clubs and dance halls which are not bars and restaurants. The ILBA tried to get the law rewritten a few years ago, asking former lawmaker and now Mayor Dennis Tyler to help. The Legislature never addressed the issue.

Marquardt mentioned another affront to bars and restaurants with excise police enforcing old local health code violations and issuing infractions against owners.

Martin plans to have his day before a judge in August, hoping to stop more expense to local bars and restaurants.

http://www.munciefreepress.com/node/29089

Now, this is an Indiana law....

http://www.in.gov/dhs/2795.htm

And its a state level DHS.

The Indiana Department of Homeland Security will provide statewide leadership, exemplary customer service, and subject matter expertise for the enhancement of public and private partnerships and the assurance of local, state and federal collaboration to continually develop Indiana’s public safety capabilities for the wellbeing and protection of our citizens, property and economy.

http://www.in.gov/dhs/2358.htm

This is hardly a new law... 2006. And its done through the division of fire safety.

http://www.in.gov/dhs/files/AE_application_42235.pdf

Taking this a bit further....

Indiana Code 22-12-1-23. "Regulated place of amusement or entertainment"

C 22-12-1-23
"Regulated place of amusement or entertainment"
Sec. 23. "Regulated place of amusement or entertainment" refers to the following:
(1) A theater, opera house, movie theater, dance hall, night club with a stage or floor show, or another place that offers an amusement or entertainment to the public for consideration or promotional purposes.
(2) A place where a boxing, sparring, or unarmed combat match or exhibition is conducted under the supervision of the state athletic commission.
(3) A hall, gymnasium, or place of assembly where a school, college, university, social or fraternal organization, lodge, farmers organization, society, labor union, trade association, or church holds any type of amusement.
(4) A public or private place where a regulated amusement device is operated.
As added by P.L.245-1987, SEC.1. Amended by P.L.160-2009, SEC.3.

http://www.lawserver.com/law/state/indiana/in-code/indiana_code_22-12-1-23

As you can clearly see, this is a state law, not a federal one. Making your OP of....

quote:

The Department of Homeland Security says it is illegal to freely play music in The United States.


Completely false.



but they were not using any regulated amusement devices. LOL


IC 22-12-1-19.1
"Regulated amusement device"
Sec. 19.1. (a) "Regulated amusement device" means a device designed to carry or convey one (1) or more persons in one (1) or more planes or degrees of motion for the purpose of amusement, recreation, or entertainment.
(b) The term includes the following:
(1) An amusement ride.
(2) A ski lift.
(3) A passenger tramway.
(4) An aerial tramway or lift.
(5) A surface lift or tow.
(6) A bull ride simulator.
(7) A bungee jump facility.
(c) The term does not include a passenger operated device or an inflatable amusement chamber.






_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: The Department of Homeland Security says it is ille... - 7/26/2013 6:14:38 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

LOL, no, just no. Its tinfoil.



good, then do tell what special privilege is being granted by the state that one would or should be required to obtain a license.

From what I could gleen it was non-commercial



_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: The Department of Homeland Security says it is ille... - 7/26/2013 6:25:40 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

but they were not using any regulated amusement devices. LOL


And?

Do you think that is the only part of that code that counts?



_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: The Department of Homeland Security says it is ille... - 7/26/2013 6:34:46 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline 		you seem to think the part you quoted is the only part that counts, now you gotta show what danger exists to the public or exactly how the public would have an interest?

Take your best shot

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: The Department of Homeland Security says it is ille... - 7/26/2013 6:42:04 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		No need, they were in violation.

Indiana Code 22-12-1-23. "Regulated place of amusement or entertainment"

C 22-12-1-23
"Regulated place of amusement or entertainment"
Sec. 23. "Regulated place of amusement or entertainment" refers to the following:
(1) A theater, opera house, movie theater, dance hall, night club with a stage or floor show, or another place that offers an amusement or entertainment to the public for consideration or promotional purposes.
(2) A place where a boxing, sparring, or unarmed combat match or exhibition is conducted under the supervision of the state athletic commission.
(3) A hall, gymnasium, or place of assembly where a school, college, university, social or fraternal organization, lodge, farmers organization, society, labor union, trade association, or church holds any type of amusement.
(4) A public or private place where a regulated amusement device is operated.
As added by P.L.245-1987, SEC.1. Amended by P.L.160-2009, SEC.3.

http://www.lawserver.com/law/state/indiana/in-code/indiana_code_22-12-1-23




_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: The Department of Homeland Security says it is ille... - 7/26/2013 6:57:40 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline 		They cant simply write shit out and come in for any damn reason they want and start ordering you around.

How about you tell us what the intent is start by telling us why is under the fire department or board of health whichever.

(I know they do and get away with it not wsithstanding.)

< Message edited by Real0ne -- 7/26/2013 6:59:38 PM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 20
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