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RE: Why discourage others? - 8/4/2013 3:48:04 PM   
theshytype


Posts: 1600
Status: offline 		My mistake.  When you said this:

quote:

that is how a disproportionately large percentage of Americans would see things


and then said this:

quote:

compared to my experiences in Europe... not saying Europeans don't do it, just that the portion of the population seems to be much larger here


it's entirely my mistake for assuming you were placing a generalization based on your personal observation.

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RE: Why discourage others? - 8/4/2013 3:57:15 PM   
JeffBC


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quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar
Great how you managed to take a statement of comparison, and twist it around to turn it into a value judgement, because it illustrates exactly the difference in the way both cultures approach things that I was talking about.

very illuminating as an example...still not what I was talking about but now I see what you were talking about. I would certainly agree that most americans are quick to turn any comparison into a value judgement. The idea that things can just be *different* seems complicated. The idea that you can't really look at better or worse until there's some sort of context to apply the differences too also seems difficult.

Are munches good? That depends. Who are you? What are you hoping to achieve? How are you in social situations? Do you even care about offline BDSM? Do you already have a partner?

I could probably go on with a long list. I just rubber-stamp a munch recommendation because my general assessment is that lots of people have read too much castle realm and I think SOME sort of interaction with real genuine human beings... preferably actually functioning couples... is worth more than 10 billion pages of text. Certainly my first munch was instructive to me. It didn't teach me anything about BDSM but it told me kinksters were just people with a hobby.

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RE: Why discourage others? - 8/4/2013 3:59:46 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		Instead of telling them to go to munches, why not just tell them to get out and meet people in general? If they can't even do that then imo, they shouldn't go to a munch or anything else for that matter...just keep themselves locked up in their mom's basement.


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RE: Why discourage others? - 8/4/2013 4:06:23 PM   
JeffBC


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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder
Instead of telling them to go to munches, why not just tell them to get out and meet people in general? If they can't even do that then imo, they shouldn't go to a munch or anything else for that matter...just keep themselves locked up in their mom's basement.

Maybe it's just my lack of knowledge? But if I wanted to meet BDSM people I'd want to go somewhere that they hung out visibly. I'd want to do that in an emotionally safe environment. "munch" is the general word I have to mean that.


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RE: Why discourage others? - 8/4/2013 4:10:57 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		I guess that's where I don't get it because I've never hunted people out because they are into bdsm or any other thing for that matter. I simply meet people and if we click, we click as people, not an interest.


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RE: Why discourage others? - 8/4/2013 5:20:53 PM   
ARIES83


Posts: 3648
Status: offline 		Ishtar, JeffBC, Pam, TheShyType,
I don't think you can really remove a foundational human ability... This type of thing is evidenced in the earliest social interactions we have.

A kid in preschool asking another kid if they like chocolate milk or something similar is a basic example of a toddler realising on some level that what they experience isn't the same as what others experience.

If they haven't already discovered that by the time they start preschool from home, they should definitely find out when interacting with heaps of different kids.
Some like strawberry milk some like chocolate, some like vanilla...
If you ask what the next person likes and it's the same as the one you like, then you have something in common, these things are among the most basic social skills.

Actually sometimes when I'm driving it's a bit humbling, I take a lot of pride in being able to drive as good as I do, probably because it took me so long to learn... Learning on a manual didn't help... But anyhow, seeing countless people driving around kinda brings home to me just how much common ability everyone else has.
It's good to be able to find realisations like that on a regular basis, otherwise my opinion of myself inflates out a lot.

But anyway I find the posts against these ideas confusing...

< Message edited by ARIES83 -- 8/4/2013 5:23:51 PM >

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RE: Why discourage others? - 8/4/2013 7:24:44 PM   
metamorfosis


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ARIES83
I don't think you can really remove a foundational human ability... This type of thing is evidenced in the earliest social interactions we have.

A kid in preschool asking another kid if they like chocolate milk or something similar is a basic example of a toddler realising on some level that what they experience isn't the same as what others experience.


I was exaggerating. I do believe many people understand that others may think differently than themselves. I just think that most of us don't bother to fully explore the dissenting opinion before expressing our own, or take the trouble to specifically state that there are other valid opinions, before stating our own. And that is as it should be.

In other words, when asked about munches, it is only natural for the person who likes them to say, "Yes, they're great! You should totally go," and the person who hates them to say "No, they're lame. You should totally pass," because we very naturally give our own opinions and experiences more weight than we give somebody else's.

I wouldn't expect a person recommending a munch to first insert the disclaimer that they understand that there are people who do not, before giving their opinion. I reserve the same right, because I expect people to work out on their own that the fact that I don't like munches doesn't imply anything for the rest of the world. The fact that this is being taken for "discouragement"... sort of proves my point about how many people have difficulty understanding this idea.

< Message edited by metamorfosis -- 8/4/2013 8:23:31 PM >

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RE: Why discourage others? - 8/4/2013 7:57:55 PM   
ThundersCry54


Posts: 71
Joined: 5/6/2013
Status: offline

This is probably where the OP comes into play; go out into the community to meet people in person if the online odds are lousy. Lots of us for a variety of reasons aren't going to do that; I'm probably not the only woman not inclined to attend public kink events alone. That's why the demise of collarme is so frustrating, as I thought I might be able to continue to meet people here. And the stories of members who have met their partners here just fuels that fantasy.

~~~~~~~~~~~~
I don`t think you should be to discouraged here, yet...
Munches, public events etc are not for everyone and thats very understandable for manyyyyy reasons...
Your a smart lady...besides read your tag line...-g-

Hang in there...

Oh, if THIS place does not frustrate you at times, somethings wrong!!

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RE: Why discourage others? - 8/5/2013 5:31:53 PM   
ARIES83


Posts: 3648
Status: offline
quote:

Pam:
because I expect people to work out on their own that the fact that I don't like munches doesn't imply anything for the rest of the world. The fact that this is being taken for "discouragement"... sort of proves my point about how many people have difficulty understanding this idea.


This was the reason I said I would have liked to seen what specifically motivated this thread... I personally haven't seen any discouragement in regards to munches since I've been here. I'm beginning to develop suspicions that what others class as discouragement may really just be the dissenting opinions you talk about, either not being expressed or received properly.

LadyPact,
I've noticed that you tend to take a lot of things to heart, do you think you could be overreacting to other peoples opinions and preferences on this topic? It seems like because you feel so strongly about munches being good and genuinely want other people to go so they can experience the same level of appreciation for them as you do, that your looking at these counter opinions in a bad light... Rather than respecting them.

People come to this forum to benifit from the combined opinions of all of those who participate here, within that community response there is also a debate amongst the community on the merits of those opinions, which everyone benifits from... However this thread seems to want to stomp on the counter opinions by casting them in a bad light, when really what they are, arw peoples personal prefrences that don't happen to match your own or compliment your goals.
I say 'goals' because I believe that munches are reasonably close to your heart and promoting them is something that you really feel is the right thing to do and the right advice to give. So by persuading people to go out and try them, you are fulfilling a goal of sorts, even if that goal is just to be a good person in yourown eyes.



< Message edited by ARIES83 -- 8/5/2013 5:51:17 PM >

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RE: Why discourage others? - 8/12/2013 4:59:49 PM   
submgreenbay


Posts: 69
Joined: 6/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha



I think some submissive men, especially, seek online relationships first because they suffer from social anxiety on top of debilitating shyness and inexperience in groups. Whether or not their curiosity in femdom relationships came before the social anxiety or after it, or because of it, or whatever, is up for discussion - who knows and it does not matter.

Some of these men are lovely and sweet as ever, with so much to give and huge hearts, but they are inexperienced and some are afraid to even leave their house and the idea of going to a place full of kinky people and just "mingle" is not going to fly. They have to stick online. They aren't going to go to a vanilla mixer let alone a kinky one.

I think there is a very high correlation between subs who are either shy (crippling levels), introverted, have social anxiety, don't have friends they can go with, and don't want people to know they are kinky. This is why they don't want to go to munches.

Akasha

Well all I can say is this is very self enlightening thread.

I have never had an interest in the play parties or munches. I have thought about it (as I do realize that is probably the best way to meet like minded people.) Just call me a monogamist then. I really feel strongly that it is for me a private thing, serious commitment at that between myself and only one other person.

That said, sites like fetlife turn me off in a major way, as it seems it's just a bunch of people looking for sex. So I guess I assume that is what munches are. Bunch of people prowling for whatever they can get.

Then there is Akasha's message above, which I also identify with. I have social anxiety, and work better in smaller groups or one on one.

So yes, it's a mixed bunch out there, and for someone like me it's takes extreme patience to separate the weed from the chaff on a site like this. And then I totally understand (yet it sucks) when the person your are contacting is also as frustrated, and they much like myself setup a bunch of preconceived communication standards, that prematurely kill off the chance to get to know each other to avoid potential time wasters.

Ya know like, the required three page intro, and other hoops. And my, if they don't share anything about themselves outside the lifestyle early on, they must be bulls*it, so move on.

But on the positive side (if there is one), on the 10 years I have been here, I did cross paths with at least one, extraordinary person.

< Message edited by submgreenbay -- 8/12/2013 5:22:42 PM >

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RE: Why discourage others? - 8/12/2013 9:17:43 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline 		FR. I will admit that I have occasionally discouraged someone from going to munches/play parties etc. instead of staying locked in their mom's basement.

Why you ask?

Well, some people are just turds that SHOULD be locked in a basement,

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RE: Why discourage others? - 8/12/2013 9:47:43 PM   
Spiritedsub2


Posts: 3316
Joined: 7/18/2012
Status: offline 		I had a guy message me and invite me to a local munch. I read his profile, and it contained almost nothing except how his next sub would spend her days and nights servicing his anus.
I wish you could have kept him locked in his mom's basement. Avoided that munch like the plague too

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RE: Why discourage others? - 8/13/2013 7:17:45 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ARIES83
This was the reason I said I would have liked to seen what specifically motivated this thread... I personally haven't seen any discouragement in regards to munches since I've been here. I'm beginning to develop suspicions that what others class as discouragement may really just be the dissenting opinions you talk about, either not being expressed or received properly.

LadyPact,
I've noticed that you tend to take a lot of things to heart, do you think you could be overreacting to other peoples opinions and preferences on this topic? It seems like because you feel so strongly about munches being good and genuinely want other people to go so they can experience the same level of appreciation for them as you do, that your looking at these counter opinions in a bad light... Rather than respecting them.

People come to this forum to benifit from the combined opinions of all of those who participate here, within that community response there is also a debate amongst the community on the merits of those opinions, which everyone benifits from... However this thread seems to want to stomp on the counter opinions by casting them in a bad light, when really what they are, arw peoples personal prefrences that don't happen to match your own or compliment your goals.
I say 'goals' because I believe that munches are reasonably close to your heart and promoting them is something that you really feel is the right thing to do and the right advice to give. So by persuading people to go out and try them, you are fulfilling a goal of sorts, even if that goal is just to be a good person in yourown eyes.

I didn't put specific examples on the thread because I had concerns about it being pulled. Some of those comments have been mentioned by other contributors on this thread. If you would care to read the first couple of pages, you would find them. Frankly, some of them were very rude and I don't even feel good repeating them.



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Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

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Profile   Post #: 93
RE: Why discourage others? - 8/13/2013 10:12:24 AM   
metamorfosis


Posts: 1132
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist
Thanks for adding that the real leather community protects its membership where online anonymity can't. I left out the 3 paragraphs about anti community spirited curmudgeon cave dwelling asshats that couldn't get a date in real life so they had to resort to jerking off in cyber land in a cyber life and ended up with hookers that couldn't get clients in real life so they became online FinDoms . . .

Just sayin'


Does either LadyPact or ResidentSadist consider this pro-munch statement at all rude? I don't. I merely see it as a candid expression of personal opinion, which is exactly how I see even the strongest phrased anti-munch statements on this thread.

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RE: Why discourage others? - 8/13/2013 10:32:50 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
I didn't put specific examples on the thread because I had concerns about it being pulled. Some of those comments have been mentioned by other contributors on this thread. If you would care to read the first couple of pages, you would find them. Frankly, some of them were very rude and I don't even feel good repeating them.

heh... I read the first few pages again... didn't see the rudeness. Maybe I didn't read far enough?

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: Why discourage others? - 8/13/2013 10:40:49 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		On post #7 of this thread, another poster referenced one of the exact comments (from other threads) that inspired the topic.

quote:

What pisses me off when people (here) say they do not go, is that they turn up their snooty noses and call those that do, smelly, ignorant, or any other negative to indicate they are above that sort of thing. GRRRR.


Does that help clear up what kind of negative comments I was talking about?


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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RE: Why discourage others? - 8/13/2013 11:15:35 AM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
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quote:

I have never had an interest in the play parties or munches. I have thought about it (as I do realize that is probably the best way to meet like minded people.) Just call me a monogamist then. I really feel strongly that it is for me a private thing, serious commitment at that between myself and only one other person.

That said, sites like fetlife turn me off in a major way, as it seems it's just a bunch of people looking for sex. So I guess I assume that is what munches are. Bunch of people prowling for whatever they can get.

Then there is Akasha's message above, which I also identify with. I have social anxiety, and work better in smaller groups or one on one.


Munches are just people who happen to be kinky having lunch or dinner in a vanilla setting. I've been approached more aggressively at supermarkets. Being monogamous excludes you from neither play parties nor munches. It's your social anxiety that is limiting you. You can ameliorate this by contacting the group organizer and telling them you are a little shy or whatever. All the organizers I've met have been very friendly.

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