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RE: its a crime to annoy somone in the UK - 8/3/2013 10:06:46 AM

freedomdwarf1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy
We have secret laws now. Have you broke any of them? Are you sure?

According to our local police (and I just checked), we don't have any "secret" laws that you speak of.

Every single law is published in the public domain and can be challenged prior to it becoming actual law.

So no, I haven't broken any "secret" laws either!

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RE: its a crime to annoy somone in the UK - 8/3/2013 10:08:12 AM

pahunkboy

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I think Americans are more rebellious.

Locally there are things for the kids to do- we actually have a pretty good set up on all that. (skate park, ball fields, tennis courts, pool, ymca fishing hiking)

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RE: its a crime to annoy somone in the UK - 8/3/2013 10:08:54 AM

Zonie63

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

Here is an example- all of a sudden it is now illegal to ride your bike along the river. No one quite knows where this law came. We are getting 100 cameras. I will be cited for riding my bike along the river. Even tho when they sold us the improvement plan bikes were to be allowed- now suddenly they are not.

Well, I suppose somebody could wear a mask so they wouldn't be able to identify who it is.

I remember a case like that up in Phoenix. This guy would zoom through all the areas with the speed cameras, but was wearing a gorilla mask, so they couldn't identify him from the photos. Without a picture of the guy's face, they couldn't issue a citation since they couldn't prove he was driving the car. They finally caught him, though. He was caught by a live police officer who unmasked him.

Perhaps there might be a coming market in disguises. In order to thwart surveillance cameras, people could wear disguises to fool the cameras.

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RE: its a crime to annoy somone in the UK - 8/3/2013 10:11:49 AM

pahunkboy

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right now- they are not enforcing the bike thing.

But the point is they could.

There is a climate that you shall not disent from the mayor and it it getting worse.

For now- a jury or peers- I doubt would convict a bike rider....

But then it also matters who you are- a big shot can have broken side walks, the average guy- nope- code guys are on it.

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RE: its a crime to annoy somone in the UK - 8/3/2013 10:11:58 AM

Zonie63

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

Nope. I break laws every day.

That is the reality.

Maybe that's the difference here.
Of all the people that I know personally, I can't think of one person that breaks the law every day.

That's probably why you hate the idea of cameras everywhere - you'll get caught!!

ETA: And I'd be one of those outside the court rooms applauding for your capture and punishment too!

We have secret laws now. Have you broke any of them? Are you sure?

I don't know if I've broken any secret laws, but I sometimes think that we're all on double secret probation.

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RE: its a crime to annoy somone in the UK - 8/3/2013 10:18:14 AM

FelineRanger

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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

If you are a decent law-abiding citizen, you have nothing to fear.

Stupid things that you are throwing up don't normally happen in a free country.
And usually, a law is brought in to save lives or to make it more comfortable for those living where the laws are brought in.

And I can't think of the last time I did anything illegal either.

I tried to come up with a courteous way to dispute this, but I simply can't. Your naiveté is frightening. First off, participation in the lifestyle is highly illegal. You can be charged with a whole host of crimes, including possession of an instrument of crime, simple assault, assault with a deadly weapon, and sexual assault, just to name a few. Even if you attend a play party and don't actively play, you can still be charged as an accessory.

Second, you seem to have forgotten that police officers are people first with all the prejudices and discrimination that entails. Much of police training also very subtly encourages racism by portraying the majority of suspects as black or Spanish. In training exercises, "perps" are rarely white and never Asian. And, yes, I got this admission straight from a uniformed on-duty cop. But skin color isn't the only reason a cop will hound you. There's a cop here where I live that has pulled me over on sight for invented violations and harassed two different supervisors from two different employers. The same cop also stopped me while I was on foot walking to the nearest convenience store claiming that a 911 call was made that someone perfectly matching my description was scoping out houses to rob them. Said call to 911, in fact, never happened.

Yes, the stupid things that pahunkboy threw up do happen in this country. What's really sad is this country really isn't free anymore and it isn't the country I once swore an oath to defend from all enemies foreign and domestic.

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RE: its a crime to annoy somone in the UK - 8/3/2013 10:18:52 AM

Wendel27

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It's not just about obtaining evidence for prosecution though Zonie. One of the best uses of surveillance cameras is that they can monitor areas without the need for a constant police prescence. C.C.T.V., particuarly in urban areas, is brilliant at identifying trouble and directing scant resources there. It's more about prevention and mitigation than solving and conviction.

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Post #: 47

RE: its a crime to annoy somone in the UK - 8/3/2013 10:19:12 AM

tj444

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63
Perhaps there might be a coming market in disguises. In order to thwart surveillance cameras, people could wear disguises to fool the cameras.

you can do that now and they are good enough & realistic to fool people that dont know its a mask...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2010/11/04/bc-elderly-man-disguise-air-canada.html

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RE: its a crime to annoy somone in the UK - 8/3/2013 10:19:36 AM

freedomdwarf1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

right now- they are not enforcing the bike thing.

But the point is they could.

There is a climate that you shall not disent from the mayor and it it getting worse.

For now- a jury or peers- I doubt would convict a bike rider....

But then it also matters who you are- a big shot can have broken side walks, the average guy- nope- code guys are on it.

To take your bike example, that would be a local by-law, not a country-wide ban.
And it would have been put in place because of an abnormal number of drownings.
So in that case, it would be for safety reasons rather than anything 'big brother' that you might come up with.
And if you got caught breaking a law, you deserve everything you get IMHO.

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RE: its a crime to annoy somone in the UK - 8/3/2013 10:21:04 AM

Wendel27

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Particiaption in this lifestyle is not a crime in the U.K. which is where Freedom Dwarf is typing from Feline.

''Second, you seem to have forgotten that police officers are people first with all the prejudices and discrimination that entails. Much of police training also very subtly encourages racism by portraying the majority of suspects as black or Spanish. In training exercises, "perps" are rarely white and never Asian. And, yes, I got this admission straight from a uniformed on-duty cop.''

and that simply isn't true in U.K. training.

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RE: its a crime to annoy somone in the UK - 8/3/2013 10:23:17 AM

tj444

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wendel27

It's not just about obtaining evidence for prosecution though Zonie. One of the best uses of surveillance cameras is that they can monitor areas without the need for a constant police prescence. C.C.T.V., particuarly in urban areas, is brilliant at identifying trouble and directing scant resources there. It's more about prevention and mitigation than solving and conviction.

so then since everyone will know where the cameras are.. crime will just move to areas where there are no cameras..

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RE: its a crime to annoy somone in the UK - 8/3/2013 10:26:18 AM

Wendel27

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And presumably the pubs, bars, nightclubs and late night food vendors and taxi ranks will walk off with them into the shadows? No one measure will stop crime. Individual measures combined however can make a dent and C.C.T.V. is a very effective way of efficently policing large urban areas.

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RE: its a crime to annoy somone in the UK - 8/3/2013 10:30:25 AM

pahunkboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

right now- they are not enforcing the bike thing.

But the point is they could.

There is a climate that you shall not disent from the mayor and it it getting worse.

For now- a jury or peers- I doubt would convict a bike rider....

But then it also matters who you are- a big shot can have broken side walks, the average guy- nope- code guys are on it.

To take your bike example, that would be a local by-law, not a country-wide ban.
And it would have been put in place because of an abnormal number of drownings.
So in that case, it would be for safety reasons rather than anything 'big brother' that you might come up with.
And if you got caught breaking a law, you deserve everything you get IMHO.

My house is along the river. I should be able to ride my bike to get groceries. FCKK the government. I OWN my house, which is part of this town.

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RE: its a crime to annoy somone in the UK - 8/3/2013 10:33:03 AM

Wendel27

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But what's that got to do with the effectiveness or not of cameras Pahunk. Your problem, if legitimately presented, is as i;'ve said before with the nature of the law being passed not the method it is being upheld with.

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RE: its a crime to annoy somone in the UK - 8/3/2013 10:46:06 AM

tj444

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wendel27

And presumably the pubs, bars, nightclubs and late night food vendors and taxi ranks will walk off with them into the shadows? No one measure will stop crime. Individual measures combined however can make a dent and C.C.T.V. is a very effective way of efficently policing large urban areas.

depends on the type of crime.. an unemployed junkie that needs a fix is gonna commit crime cuz he needs the money from theft/breaking into homes, etc and cameras wont deter him, he is gonna break into homes, regardless.. and he will likely move to areas where its easier to do and get away with it..

As far as pubs, bars, food joints, gas stations, etc, they will tend to have their own cameras.. in many cases to keep their own employees honest.. not just passers-by, patrons, etc..

The US is a huge country, huge cities.. trying to put cameras in costs a small fortune.. and those cameras the govt use are not cheap either.. each one can cost several thousands of dollars.. And another problem is that the people watching the cameras need to stay awake & attentive! which is easier said than done in that kinda job.. zzzzzzzzzz

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RE: its a crime to annoy somone in the UK - 8/3/2013 10:53:09 AM

Wendel27

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I'm not suggesting C.C.T.V. cameras will have an impact on all crime. Clearly spousal rape and such like is going to be beyond it's purview. What it is excellent for is monitoring large urban areas where there's lots of crime, particuarly that accossiated with the nighttime economy. A job that would oterwise tie up police resources on static duty...or would simply not be monitored or at best intermittently.

As for having their own C.C.T.V. that's the whole point. All cameras in, say, Oxford where I live are linked up to a control room by the council. These are monitored by police and civilian staff and facilitate the policing of the city.

I'm not saying that cameras are the be all and end all of crime fighting. I'm just pointing out that they certainly have a place within it and from my experince a very effective [both in terms of cost and results] one. One that far outweighs their drawbacks.

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RE: its a crime to annoy somone in the UK - 8/3/2013 10:56:45 AM

Real0ne

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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy
We have secret laws now. Have you broke any of them? Are you sure?

According to our local police (and I just checked), we don't have any "secret" laws that you speak of.
Every single law is published in the public domain and can be challenged prior to it becoming actual law.

So no, I haven't broken any "secret" laws either!

according to your local police?

Since when can a lien be filed against you or your property siezed BEFORE a determination by a court? You know in the land of free he he he?

Therefore a creditor can have a vessel arrested by the police without any proof that the debt exists and without filing the lien. This is called an "in rem" action, in which the vessel or its cargo is seized without any proof. The creditor does not have to prove that the debt is owed unless someone files a counterclaim in a court. Thus a Notice of Lien can be sent to an alleged debtor without any proof or any filing. The courts have termed this a "secret lien" because it is not filed anywhere.

The UNITED STATES is the only government that enforces admiralty law inland. This law was initiated during the Civil War to confiscate property owned by enemies of the UNITED STATES government. The UNITED STATES is also the only government that has codified maritime liens into statutes, which is Title 46, Chapter 313. The secret lien is codified in 46 USC 31342. Maritime liens have a higher priority than all other liens. Their priority over statutory liens is stated in 46 USC 31307. Priority over common law liens is stated in 46 USC 31326. There are lists of lien priorities in the documents below, but we do not know the source of those lists. However, mortgage liens, IRS tax liens and other government liens are listed at the lowest priority.
Recorded maritime liens take priority over unrecorded liens and are called preferred maritime liens. The responsibility to record maritime liens is delegated to the UNITED STATES COAST GUARD. They have forms and instructions on their web site. But since there are no requirements for filing a maritime lien, and no proof required, one can provide the public a Notice of Claim of Maritime Lien by recording it with the county or with the Secretary of State or recording it on a UCC1.

Like a cop would know shit

Think this is bullshit? You can go to any courthouse and find shit loads of IRS filed liens that people were never notified of their existence.

They have so bastardized the original intent of literally every form of redress the people had available we have no substantial or reasonable remedy.

< Message edited by Real0ne -- 8/3/2013 11:00:35 AM >

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RE: its a crime to annoy somone in the UK - 8/3/2013 11:11:58 AM

freedomdwarf1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
Since when can a lien be filed against you or your property siezed BEFORE a determination by a court? You know in the land of free he he he?

What you quote may be true of the US - but not here in the UK.
You cannot file lien or have goods siezed without a court warrant.

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RE: its a crime to annoy somone in the UK - 8/3/2013 11:13:35 AM

pahunkboy

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^ who do you think invented maritime law?

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Post #: 59

RE: its a crime to annoy somone in the UK - 8/3/2013 11:18:34 AM