RE: Real BDSM (Full Version)

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crouchingtigress -> RE: Real BDSM (6/29/2006 8:34:17 AM)

 
Zenofeller,
You are deep thinker, and that is one of your great strengths but like all great strengths it has a shadow side...in this situation it is to keep you from feeling....and "real" bdsm is not about analyzing, it is about feeling.[;)]





KnightofMists -> RE: Real BDSM (6/29/2006 8:38:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

I have no idea why you are being so crass, insulting and rude by attempting to tell people how to respond when in many cases their enecdotes are based on experience and situations they have encountered, which for most is a perfectlt excelent in which to gather information.


It could be he can't relate to actual experience and therefore feels inferior and unable to contribute to the conversation.  If it's kept abstract, he can feel confident to sit at the table and contribute his thoughts and ideas of a given topic. 

Personally, abstract is great until you actually attempt put theory into practice.  It's then that practical experience truly causes one to evolve one's abstract theory.  Nothing like practical experience to show the limitation of one's theories.




zenofeller -> RE: Real BDSM (6/29/2006 8:41:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress
Zenofeller,
You are deep thinker, and that is one of your great strengths but like all great strengths it has a shadow side...in this situation it is to keep you from feeling....and "real" bdsm is not about analyzing, it is about feeling.[;)]


right, but then since boards are about words which are (hopefully) clothes for thoughts, what can one do but think ? i suppose untill the day they invent the Emonet, everybody with deep feeling will be at a bit of a disadvantage.




zenofeller -> RE: Real BDSM (6/29/2006 8:45:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists
It could be he can't relate to actual experience and therefore feels inferior and unable to contribute to the conversation.  If it's kept abstract, he can feel confident to sit at the table and contribute his thoughts and ideas of a given topic. 

just as long as you understand that conversely, your aversion of the abstract paints the equivalent :

It could be you can't relate to actual thinking and therefore you feel inferior and unable to contribute to the conversation.  If it's kept practical, you can feel confident to sit at the table and contribute his facts and experiences on a given topic. 

quote:


Personally, abstract is great until you actually attempt put theory into practice.  It's then that practical experience truly causes one to evolve one's abstract theory.  Nothing like practical experience to show the limitation of one's theories.


On the other hand, you will never have enough experience that you may be allowed to discuss such vast topics on experience alone. Abstract has it's place, and that place is where we try to discuss things bigger than any single one of us. If you can conceive something like that.




IronBear -> RE: Real BDSM (6/29/2006 8:45:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

It could be he can't relate to actual experience and therefore feels inferior and unable to contribute to the conversation.  If it's kept abstract, he can feel confident to sit at the table and contribute his thoughts and ideas of a given topic. 

Personally, abstract is great until you actually attempt put theory into practice.  It's then that practical experience truly causes one to evolve one's abstract theory.  Nothing like practical experience to show the limitation of one's theories.


I don't disagree with you KoM. This is why in a later post I suggested that had the original question been couched in terms like "I would prefer you to reply in abstract terms and not posy anecdotal thoughts" I couild have agree easily. I simply get my back up when some one tells me how to post. This is rude and insulting, at least in the company I keep...




kittensmailbox -> RE: Real BDSM (6/29/2006 8:45:48 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: zenofeller

As you'd expect, I give you the latest in controversial topics. What you find below is theory, nothing more. Bear that in mind. If you post something, would you kindly make it NOT an anecdotal event ? With all respect due to your personal experience, there's five million threads asking for it. This one would appreciate your abstract thinking instead.

There's two ways to play poker. The way everyone does it, you put the money in the middle, fiddle with the cards, split the money accordingly and when you've had enough, walk out. The way some might be doing it, not that I would ever play with them, would be as above except at the end the money is re-split so everyone leaves with what they came. All the fun, none of the downside.

Now let's take an example. If someone enjoys being tied up and left alone, the word of advice is "you must always have a way to untie yourself". Why ? Well, because you might need to. Certainly. But maybe the entire point of the exercise is to not be able to untie yourself ?

We distinguish between sex and masturbation roughly on the lines that while sex is interaction with another, masturbation is the pretense of interaction with another, using some sort of imagery. But, importantly, that imagery holds no sway over the masturbator other than what he conceedes at every moment. Jena Jamesson will never fart loudly when you're half way through. A real woman might. A .JPG never will.

Consequently, I choose to distinguish between real BDSM and pseudo BDSM.

Now, there's nothing wrong with masturbation, the same way there's nothing wrong with sex, as a choice of personal expression. What may be dangerous to a person, maybe, is if they fail to make the difference between the two.

However, in the case of BDSM, there exists a historical catch. Power comes with numbers, and in a repressive society like the united states enjoy, where a majority is at liberty to impose behaviours on any minority, the choice is simple. Power or extinction.

It was then observed that by including the pseudo-BDSM, numbers would swell and social acceptance might be easier attained, since in general the debate is not decided at the social level by whether people have a right to do something, but whether does anyone know someone doing it, and do they like that someone.

This is fine, and perfectly logical as a political choice, but then there's a problem. Wearing a choker does not BDSM make. Being tied up and left in the woods with an easy way to get out of it is not being tied up and left in the woods. Scripting a session is different from living a session.

Yet, the tempting political stand is to say, everything is equally BDSM, as everyone choses to practice it. This is correct from an ethical stand, no one practice is wrong and no one practice is correct. But it is false from a logical stand. Drawing ropes on your body does not constitute bondage.

The inability to clearly see this difference, often enough voluntary, due to the catfighting reflexively prompted by any suggestion that this or that is or is not "real BDSM", where "real" is of course seen as an ethical distinction, put the community in a very strange position, and in my oppinion generate most of the drama.

And since you are restricted from posting your own anecdotes, i'll share my own, to tantalize. Talking to a longtime friend, she said she could never be interested in "the scene" because every single move seems fake and scripted, and she'd much rather have the genuine article.



I do not mean any disrespect toward You Sir, however, why must You be so long~winded... i have to be honest, i lost interest in the begining...




zenofeller -> RE: Real BDSM (6/29/2006 8:48:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear
I simply get my back up when some one tells me how to post. This is rude and insulting, at least in the company I keep...


sorry to break it to you, but as long as you keep coming here, it's not rude and insulting in the company you keep. something i will remedy for you right now.




mnottertail -> RE: Real BDSM (6/29/2006 8:48:08 AM)

LOL---

deep as a birdbath, but not so broad.




IronBear -> RE: Real BDSM (6/29/2006 9:10:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: zenofeller

quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear
I simply get my back up when some one tells me how to post. This is rude and insulting, at least in the company I keep...


sorry to break it to you, but as long as you keep coming here, it's not rude and insulting in the company you keep. something i will remedy for you right now.



I was refering to the company I keep in real life but of course I should have stated that... Remedy that? Good perhaps your do me the favour of permanantly blocking me so you cant read what I say in any forum, of course if you a Mod you could bann me from the site too .. That would be no biggie....  Seems like you can't stand being told you are a rude and insulting fellow.




bignipples2share -> RE: Real BDSM (6/29/2006 9:18:25 AM)

Not everything on an open forum is going to be exactly what you want to hear, when you want to hear it, or how you want to hear it.
Putting people on ignore seems to defeat the whole purpose of an open forum, regardless of if we want to hear it or not, or on or off topic. Doesn't that just create tunnel vision?

~Big




Caretakr -> RE: Real BDSM (6/29/2006 9:24:31 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

quote:

ORIGINAL: zenofeller

quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear
I simply get my back up when some one tells me how to post. This is rude and insulting, at least in the company I keep...


sorry to break it to you, but as long as you keep coming here, it's not rude and insulting in the company you keep. something i will remedy for you right now.



I was refering to the company I keep in real life but of course I should have stated that... Remedy that? Good perhaps your do me the favour of permanantly blocking me so you cant read what I say in any forum, of course if you a Mod you could bann me from the site too .. That would be no biggie....  Seems like you can't stand being told you are a rude and insulting fellow.



Not to be rude or insulting myself here..........

But why do you let these people push your buttons so easily, and often?




midniterider7 -> RE: Real BDSM (6/29/2006 9:27:10 AM)

See the glory of the royal scam............




midniterider7 -> RE: Real BDSM (6/29/2006 9:30:26 AM)

"Deep Thoughts " by Zenofeller......Got to admit zeno gets you thinking.




IronBear -> RE: Real BDSM (6/29/2006 9:33:02 AM)

'Tis but a game Caretakr. Naught but a game. Usually I wouldn't bother with this thread but as I said in an earlier post, it does keep me awake (02.30 Friday, June 30) untill I come off Call Out Duty.... I very few things in threads like this or when I'm being flamed. It's easy after to log off if that were the case.. 




KnightofMists -> RE: Real BDSM (6/29/2006 12:13:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: zenofeller

just as long as you understand that conversely, your aversion of the abstract paints the equivalent :

It could be you can't relate to actual thinking and therefore you feel inferior and unable to contribute to the conversation.  If it's kept practical, you can feel confident to sit at the table and contribute his facts and experiences on a given topic. 


*chuckles*  of course that would be only correct if your assumption of me having an aversion to abstract thought was accurate.

But, unfortunate for you, I am confident to sit at the table of abstract or practical.  I am just wise enough to appreciate that both are avenues are neccessary to have an improved appreciate of a given subject and don't foolishly limit myself.

quote:



On the other hand, you will never have enough experience that you may be allowed to discuss such vast topics on experience alone. Abstract has it's place, and that place is where we try to discuss things bigger than any single one of us. If you can conceive something like that.


You correct that abstract does have it's place for no person will indeed have the experience to cover all particular perspectives of a given situation or topic.  However, it's the wise person that understands that thou their personal perspective is of an abstract nature, they are open to listening to those with practical experience to improve their own abstract understanding.  With such improved knowledge, one will be better to maximize their enjoyment of a practical experience that was once only an abstract thought.  As a person that has much more practical experience in BDSM and D/s lifestyle than most, I can attest that no amount of practical experience is ever going to be enough and that abstract thought and the perspectives of others are indeed important keys to growing and gaining more experience with constructive and positive results.






KnightofMists -> RE: Real BDSM (6/29/2006 12:17:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

I don't disagree with you KoM. This is why in a later post I suggested that had the original question been couched in terms like "I would prefer you to reply in abstract terms and not posy anecdotal thoughts" I couild have agree easily. I simply get my back up when some one tells me how to post. This is rude and insulting, at least in the company I keep...



Nods... It appears that Manners and Civilty is still an abstract thought for him and has yet to master it's theory to be able to demonstrate it from a Practical perspective.




Sub03 -> RE: Real BDSM (6/29/2006 1:03:21 PM)

I just read this whole thread and got absolutely nothing from it but confusion. That is time i will never get back.




caitlyn -> RE: Real BDSM (6/29/2006 1:14:44 PM)

Speaking in the abstract, who in their right mind would want "real" BDSM?
 
Certainly not anyone that has ever had it ... speaking in the abstract of course. [;)]




SusanofO -> RE: Real BDSM (6/29/2006 1:25:45 PM)

No, I thought it was a great reply,nipples2share. - Susan




Caretakr -> RE: Real BDSM (6/29/2006 1:31:56 PM)

From the perspective of the op, I will again reply here.

There ARE people who like an inexorable feeling of reality in thier lives, and bdsm is a very intense part of that.

It explains people like consensual Masters and slaves,who do everything in thier power to duplicate the instituion of slavery-as realistically as possible.

Masochists who suffer agonizing tortures, just to feel more alive..a huge spectrum that I think scc people cannot grasp, in any realistic sense.

So I understand the outrage of one group-and the annoyance of the other at it.

But in the end of it all I UNDERSTAND- rather than trying to make them "me"




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