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RE: Good submissives - 8/7/2013 10:22:00 PM

metamorfosis

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I know, I was talking about newbies in general.

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RE: Good submissives - 8/7/2013 10:30:42 PM

NuevaVida

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Sorry, I'm having trouble understanding your question. I've reread it a few times.

You asked if it's unfair that we expect a new person to know that branding, beating, etc is ok but the things listed in the OP (turning their relationship into something she didn't sign up for) is not ok. I don't see unfairness there, Pam, other than expecting anything from someone we don't know.

"Hey newbie - as long as you willingly signed up for a BDSM relationship - explore this shit to your heart's content! Yep, beating, etc., is OK, if that's what you want for yourself."

"Hey newbie - if you didn't want a BDSM relationship and he's doing this shit to you (beating, etc.) and now you're all kinds of confused about it, that is not OK!"

Do you agree with those statements? Disagree?

As for the chastising comment, I don't chastise newbies.

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RE: Good submissives - 8/7/2013 10:33:44 PM

Sheela22

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quote:

ORIGINAL: metamorfosis

Good submissive are crazy in love with their dominants, and defend them no matter what.

Good submissives know without question that their dominants love them, no matter how unhappy the dominant makes them.

Good submissives find themselves incapable of breaking up.

Good submissives know they don't get a say. Expressing an opinion at all is frowned upon, and they sure as hell don't complain or nag. A good rule of thumb is that if they're speaking at all, they probably need to apologize for it.

Good submissives never ask their dominants questions, because they understand it's presumptuous to attempt to understand their betters. They also understand that asking questions might hurt the dominant's feelings.

Good submissives are powerless to change their dominants, but that's okay because they would never, ever want them to change anyway.

Good submissives don't know how to talk to their dominants about a problem, but they know that that's okay because their feelings don't matter anyway. Good submissives know that the best solution to a crisis is to buy the dominant's favorite beer and cook their favorite meal.

Good submissives let their dominant make all the decisions, including where to live, where to work, who to talk to, who to be friends with, whether to go to school, etc.

Good submissive like getting fucked in the ass in their sleep without lube.

Good submissives frequently feel helpless and overwhelmed by life.

Good submissives devote themselves completely to their dominant and refuse to indulge in selfish interests like friends, family, or a social life.

Good submissives have implicit faith that their dominant knows what he/she is doing.

Good submissives know that any play is for the benefit of the dominant, and the submissive isn't supposed to enjoy themselves.

Good submissives know that any problems in the relationship are their own fault.

Good submisisves are afraid of wasting other people's time.

I'm pretty sure this about me and making fun of my post. If it is ,its okay ..I never claimed I'm a good sub anyways..:)

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RE: Good submissives - 8/7/2013 10:41:13 PM

metamorfosis

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I'm saying, why do we expect them to know things like not having the right to express an opinion, having their social lives controlled, not being allowed to ask questions, not being expected to enjoy kinky sex or play, are abusive while tying someone up and beating them isn't?

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RE: Good submissives - 8/7/2013 10:43:10 PM

NuevaVida

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I don't expect that. All those things you listed are just fine, in the right context. In the wrong context, it's not fine.

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RE: Good submissives - 8/7/2013 10:46:18 PM

metamorfosis

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sheela22
I'm pretty sure this about me and making fun of my post. If it is ,its okay ..I never claimed I'm a good sub anyways..:)

It is. Sorry. I'm an asshole. I do apologize for making fun of you. It has turned into a real discussion though, if you're interested.

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RE: Good submissives - 8/7/2013 10:50:25 PM

Sheela22

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no hard feelings :) i blame my mom for ruining me lol

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RE: Good submissives - 8/7/2013 10:51:57 PM

metamorfosis

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida
I don't expect that. All those things you listed are just fine, in the right context. In the wrong context, it's not fine.

What makes it the right context? The fact that something was pre-negotiated?

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RE: Good submissives - 8/7/2013 10:53:02 PM

metamorfosis

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sheela22
no hard feelings :) i blame my mom for ruining me lol

Ha. Me too.

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RE: Good submissives - 8/7/2013 10:56:04 PM

NuevaVida

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quote:

ORIGINAL: metamorfosis

What makes it the right context? The fact that something was pre-negotiated?

I already explained it. Willingly entering a BDSM relationship versus being in a non-BDSM relationship and having your partner turn the tables on you and turning it into one, without you agreeing to it.

Or healthy for you versus harmful to you - physically, mentally, or emotionally.

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RE: Good submissives - 8/7/2013 11:34:28 PM

Sheela22

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quote:

ORIGINAL: metamorfosis

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sheela22
no hard feelings :) i blame my mom for ruining me lol

Ha. Me too.

You can add to the list

1- a good sub has waken up by his Dom's warm cum all over her face once because her Dom thinks its hilarious to jerk off on his sub's face :P

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RE: Good submissives - 8/7/2013 11:45:29 PM

metamorfosis

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida
I already explained it. Willingly entering a BDSM relationship versus being in a non-BDSM relationship and having your partner turn the tables on you and turning it into one, without you agreeing to it.

What about the people who do absolutely agree? Are you saying that there is no such thing as abuse within a consensual BDSM relationship?

Besides, I would argue that Sheela did, in fact, agree. By not saying no, by not leaving, by defending him, she agreed. So the question again becomes: what, if anything, constitutes abuse within a consensual BDSM relationship?

quote:

Or healthy for you versus harmful to you - physically, mentally, or emotionally.

Harmful according to whom?
What if both parties in a consensual relationship decide that what goes on is not harmful, but outsiders disagree? Is that abuse?
What if the dominant wants to do something that the sub thinks is harmful (but is not a pre-negotiated limit?) Is that abuse?
What if the sub wants something done that the dominant thinks is harmful (but is not a pre-negotiated limit?) Is it reasonable for a dominant to decide for a submissive what is and isn't harmful for them?
What do they do if negotiation itself is a limit, and then one of them does something the other thinks is harmful? Can it be "abusive" if they never discussed it?
Much of what is done in BDSM is unquestionably physically harmful. Physical harm seems like an vague standard for abuse.
Humiliation involves things that are mentally and emotionally harmful. Mental and Emotional harm seem like vague standards for abuse.

I guess my point is the issue of what constitutes "abuse" is complicated, and perhaps we ought to be more careful judging newbies for their seeming lack of "common sense" about the lifestyle. It's not as obvious as all that.

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RE: Good submissives - 8/7/2013 11:58:32 PM

metamorfosis

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sheela22
You can add to the list

1- a good sub has waken up by his Dom's warm cum all over her face once because her Dom thinks its hilarious to jerk off on his sub's face :P

Good submissives lap it up.

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RE: Good submissives - 8/8/2013 12:37:44 AM

Sirslittleslut75

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Off point but this sub would love to please her daddy by waking with his cum on my face. I would have already succeeded at being a good sub for the first part of the day. As long as you consented, and you're truly submissive, making your D/M happy should make you happy and wet

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RE: Good submissives - 8/8/2013 12:56:48 AM

Bstardsbitch1

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Not everything I do for Himself makes me happy or wet.
Does that make me a bad submissive?

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RE: Good submissives - 8/8/2013 2:37:03 AM

Sirslittleslut75

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I don't think it makes you a "bad submissive" only you know your relationship. For me, being a good submissive means putting his needs and pleasure first above my own and for me, this is incredibly arousing and fulfilling.

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RE: Good submissives - 8/8/2013 3:46:44 AM

Sheela22

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sirslittleslut75

I don't think it makes you a "bad submissive" only you know your relationship. For me, being a good submissive means putting his needs and pleasure first above my own and for me, this is incredibly arousing and fulfilling.

Same as me. I hate swallowing cum but I do it all the time with a big smile afterward because I know he wants me to. Cumming on my face is not my fav but he loves it and calls it marking his territory . So I just smile because I can please him

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RE: Good submissives - 8/8/2013 6:38:55 AM

NuevaVida

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quote:

ORIGINAL: metamorfosis

I guess my point is the issue of what constitutes "abuse" is complicated, and perhaps we ought to be more careful judging newbies for their seeming lack of "common sense" about the lifestyle. It's not as obvious as all that.

Exactly. It's not obvious. I don't think you'll ever see me on the list of folks who give newbies a hard time. It's not my thing.

As for what constitutes abuse in BDSM, we've had a gazillion discussions on that topic on these boards. A search will bring up all sorts of theories.

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RE: Good submissives - 8/8/2013 10:39:20 AM

Hillwilliam

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sheela22

no hard feelings :) i blame my mom for ruining me lol

She has a good sense of humor and a willingness to learn. I vote we keep her.

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RE: Good submissives - 8/8/2013 11:17:06 AM

DesFIP

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I'm doing laundry right now, in a couple of hours I'm making him meatloaf and mashed potatoes. I can assure you this does not make me happy and/or wet. Nor should it, imo.

But I don't believe the line between healthy and unhealthy is that fuzzy.
Do you feel better about yourself for being with him or do you feel less?
Are you afraid to talk to him or do you have open communication without fear of punishment for expressing negative emotions?
Do you walk on eggshells, worrying about upsetting him?
Has he separated you from those who support you leaving you totally dependent on his view of you? And is his expressed view of you generally positive or negative?
Does he put you down or build you up?
Are you with him because you want to be or you have to be?

< Message edited by DesFIP -- 8/8/2013 11:22:22 AM >

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