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RE: From a sadomasochistic POV - I am looking for gener... - 8/8/2013 7:40:21 AM   
pqui


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quote:

I don't think the op has done any reading of how you feel afterwards and what you need afterwards, which is usually caring as deep as the objectification was.
Speaking for myself, I don't get it, don't want it, particularly it is that I already feel cared for by the torture. Isn't that actually the point of it? Its also not pointed out or described that much anywhere.

Like I said, I have to submit to a woman, I have to worship her or else the masochism is not really meaningful. Like a conventional relationship where you don't like each other but have sex anyway. That doesn't just happen with any woman.

Of course there are safewords, traffic light system, discussing it and what not to make sure its what both want. No need to explain that.

Thank you for your replies so far.

< Message edited by pqui -- 8/8/2013 7:41:00 AM >

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: From a sadomasochistic POV - I am looking for gener... - 8/8/2013 7:48:59 AM   
pqui


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Joined: 8/8/2013
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quote:

I have suggested actually going to clubs and trying out this stuff in a public scene so that he gets better instruction on how things are done, and might be able to begin to understand the huge responsibility of aftercare and support that a bottom/sub/slave/whatever needs after this kind of activity. Hopefully that will help.

Yes, maybe I just need more first hand experience.
About the aftercare, what does it do for you? Maybe I am fundamentally different or just disturbed here, because my association with suffering and torture is actually love and affection and being cared for, also because both enjoy it happening obviously. If you do not make that association however, isn't the whole thing sort of terrible? I really can't imagine how it would be like.

(in reply to pqui)
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RE: From a sadomasochistic POV - I am looking for gener... - 8/8/2013 7:49:51 AM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline 		I really don't get your response at all.

quote:

ORIGINAL: pqui
quote:

I don't think the op has done any reading of how you feel afterwards and what you need afterwards, which is usually caring as deep as the objectification was.

Speaking for myself, I don't get it, don't want it, particularly it is that I already feel cared for by the torture. Isn't that actually the point of it?

Actually, no it isn't. This is the bit you are missing.
Whatever you do for your 'torture', if it harms the body or the mind in any way, it needs to be cared for afterwards so that you can repair yourself for next time.
This is why I said that your mental state rings red flags for me - you don't think of the aftercare.

quote:

ORIGINAL: pqui Like I said, I have to submit to a woman, I have to worship her or else the masochism is not really meaningful. Like a conventional relationship where you don't like each other but have sex anyway.

Really???
Shit... I must be living on a different planet to you.
Short of rape, I can't think of any situation where people have sex when they don't like each other.

quote:

ORIGINAL: pqui
Of course there are safewords, traffic light system, discussing it and what not to make sure its what both want. No need to explain that.

(in reply to pqui)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: From a sadomasochistic POV - I am looking for gener... - 8/8/2013 8:00:36 AM   
theshytype


Posts: 1600
Status: offline 		For the aftercare part, I believes it just depends on the person.
I've seen that mentioned here before. Some need it, some don't.

I've also seen others post regarding people who say they're interested in pain but when it happens, not so much (a "tourist"?).
I can only assume that perhaps they're curious and have never experienced it.
Regardless, people are different and will enjoy pain to varying degrees.

I couldn't get through the entire OP so I'm not entirely sure what your original question was - just guessing here.

(in reply to pqui)
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RE: From a sadomasochistic POV - I am looking for gener... - 8/8/2013 8:06:46 AM   
pqui


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Joined: 8/8/2013
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quote:

Shit... I must be living on a different planet to you.
Short of rape, I can't think of any situation where people have sex when they don't like each other.

Um, never heard of marriage or relationships that went on for too long? People have sex just because they have sex drives. Really, people tell me to go out more, but this is just naive.

quote:

Whatever you do for your 'torture', if it harms the body or the mind in any way, it needs to be cared for afterwards so that you can repair yourself for next time.
This is why I said that your mental state rings red flags for me - you don't think of the aftercare.
Well first, I don't consider torture 'damage' to the mind (and wouldn't even want to do it if it were) but to the body and the body automatically repairs itself without any interventions. If it doesn't it must have been really extreme stuff you are talking about here, like breaking all layers of skin on a large surface or dislocating joints or whatever. Maybe breaking skin that much can happen, of course you need to care for that. But I am not really into that extreme and wasn't talking about it. Though maybe that is appealing fantasy-wise to be tortured and then stitched back together just to be tortured again (but not really realistic, you can only do that so often before it will cripple you). What I don't really understand is emotional aftercare, or how you would even need it, given that you don't cause real psychological trauma (=actual mental damage). What you are talking about really sounds like some extreme shit to me that involves permanent damage.

< Message edited by pqui -- 8/8/2013 8:20:37 AM >

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: From a sadomasochistic POV - I am looking for gener... - 8/8/2013 8:22:15 AM   
kalikshama


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quote:

Sorry, but its really primitive to paste the text in an editor and add arbitrary newlines to the text. The average long paragraph length in books is about 350 words, which is about the average paragraph length of my post. Maybe you are used to less from chatrooms, blogs and other low-content online media


We're online, where the standard IS to add new lines for readability. I'm a voracious reader, and had a really hard time reading your wall of text.

To answer your question - different strokes for different folks.

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RE: From a sadomasochistic POV - I am looking for gener... - 8/8/2013 8:29:33 AM   
myotherself


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From: The cold bit of the UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pqui

Well first, I don't consider torture 'damage' to the mind (and wouldn't even want to do it if it were) but to the body and the body automatically repairs itself without any interventions. If it doesn't it must have been really extreme stuff you are talking about here, like breaking all layers of skin on a large surface or dislocating joints or whatever. Maybe breaking skin that much can happen, of course you need to care for that. But I am not really into that extreme and wasn't talking about it. Though maybe that is appealing fantasy-wise to be tortured and then stitched back together just to be tortured again (but not really realistic, you can only do that so often before it will cripple you). What I don't really understand is emotional aftercare, or how you would even need it, given that you don't cause real psychological trauma (=actual mental damage). What you are talking about really sounds like some extreme shit to me that involves permanent damage.


This is why mentioning your ASD is so important. Sorry to bang on about it, but I totally understand why you don't 'get' emotional aftercare, and it's all to do with your ASD.

For you, torture is torture. It's a means to an end. It is what it is, and no more.

For many more people there's a strong emotional connection between pain play and how you feel afterwards. Personally, I don't play with people that I don't love. Not any more, anyway. That's because I need to know that afterwards there is someone who cares enough about me to give me a cuddle, feed me water and stay with me while I 'come down' emotionally from the adrenaline rush of the scene. My need for pain is all entwined with my need for a strong man to guide my life and give me pain.

Now, not everyone needs or wants that, but there are many who do. The harder I play, the more I need someone to be with me, hold me, giggle with me, care about me. It might only take 10 minutes, it might take a couple of hours, but I do need it.

It's not about being walloped, stitched back up and walloped again. It's a much more primal, emotional need that I really can't articulate any better than I have.

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RE: From a sadomasochistic POV - I am looking for gener... - 8/8/2013 8:40:53 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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Joined: 10/23/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pqui
quote:

Shit... I must be living on a different planet to you.
Short of rape, I can't think of any situation where people have sex when they don't like each other.

Um, never heard of marriage or relationships that went on for too long? People have sex just because they have sex drives. Really, people tell me to go out more, but this is just naive.

Actually, not from my many years of real-life experience.
The only people that have sex when they don't like each other is for rape or in porn films.
It just doesn't happen like that in real life. Really... it just doesn't.

And no, they don't have sex just because they have a sex drive.
That would be an extremely naive thing to be thinking.
If they did, it wouldn't be with the person they don't like - they would find someone else, not shag the person they have no feelings for any more.

MOS has some good answers for you.

(in reply to pqui)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: From a sadomasochistic POV - I am looking for gener... - 8/8/2013 8:42:14 AM   
pqui


Posts: 31
Joined: 8/8/2013
Status: offline 		@myotherself:

Hm, my cat is really sensitive emotionally and when I have to cut her claws I really have to fixate her and she will scream and what not, but there is no other way to keep them from growing in her paws. I try to distract her afterwards quickly with positive rewards, like playing with her, giving her tuna fish and petting her, for the purpose of canceling the negative experience. And it works well. Is that kind of care similar? Would you prefer to be treated like a pet or rather a human being?

< Message edited by pqui -- 8/8/2013 8:43:42 AM >

(in reply to myotherself)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: From a sadomasochistic POV - I am looking for gener... - 8/8/2013 8:51:07 AM   
pqui


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quote:

Actually, not from my many years of real-life experience.
The only people that have sex when they don't like each other is for rape or in porn films.
It just doesn't happen like that in real life. Really... it just doesn't.

And no, they don't have sex just because they have a sex drive.
That would be an extremely naive thing to be thinking.
If they did, it wouldn't be with the person they don't like - they would find someone else, not shag the person they have no feelings for any more.

MOS has some good answers for you.


I don't know what to say to that. If you deny that there are people in marriage or relationships who dislike each other but just have sex because they have a craving for it, if you deny that you can hate each other in a relationship but still are driven towards sex because of sex drive, if you deny that there are hookers and swinger or whatever sex clubs where sex happens for the purpose of sex and/or money in disregard of feelings to each other, if you even seem to deny that sex drive and affection are two separate phenomena .. I don't know what to say to that.

< Message edited by pqui -- 8/8/2013 8:53:50 AM >

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
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RE: From a sadomasochistic POV - I am looking for gener... - 8/8/2013 8:53:16 AM   
kalikshama


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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: pqui
quote:

Shit... I must be living on a different planet to you.
Short of rape, I can't think of any situation where people have sex when they don't like each other.

Um, never heard of marriage or relationships that went on for too long? People have sex just because they have sex drives. Really, people tell me to go out more, but this is just naive.

Actually, not from my many years of real-life experience.
The only people that have sex when they don't like each other is for rape or in porn films.
It just doesn't happen like that in real life. Really... it just doesn't.

And no, they don't have sex just because they have a sex drive.
That would be an extremely naive thing to be thinking.
If they did, it wouldn't be with the person they don't like - they would find someone else, not shag the person they have no feelings for any more.

MOS has some good answers for you.


I've certainly had sex just because I have a sex drive, with people I didn't know, and with people I no longer loved.


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(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: From a sadomasochistic POV - I am looking for gener... - 8/8/2013 8:53:25 AM   
myotherself


Posts: 7157
Joined: 3/9/2006
From: The cold bit of the UK
Status: offline 		OK, you're getting the analogy

Everyone's need (or lack of need) for aftercare is different and that's why you need to talk about it beforehand and even during the aftercare, at least the first few times until you get to know what they want/need.

For myself, I get very giggly and silly, a bit like being a bit drunk. I just need to feel someone touching me, talking to me and maybe even talking about what just happened. Sometimes I get a bit tearful, and in that case I just need to be held and cuddled until I calm down, and then the chatting and giggling thing usually starts. It's not like being a pet - think about it like the cuddling and talking you would do after making love to someone. It's that sort of thing.

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: From a sadomasochistic POV - I am looking for gener... - 8/8/2013 8:55:57 AM   
pqui


Posts: 31
Joined: 8/8/2013
Status: offline 		Thank you. I will keep that in mind.

(in reply to myotherself)
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RE: From a sadomasochistic POV - I am looking for gener... - 8/8/2013 8:59:13 AM   
OsideGirl


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From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pqui

Hello,

I don't have in person experience with BDSM, but I am very attracted to many BDSM elements such as dominance and submission and especially sadomasochism.


I didn't read the whole wall of text, but I decided to give you some information on your very first sentence.

BDSM isn't about D/s. It frequently gets included into a D/s relationship, but they are not the same thing.

BDSM is Bondage/Discipline/Sado-Masochism, ie: the kinky sex. You can engage in BDSM and never engage in D/s. Kinky sex is not an indicator of Dominance or submission, but merely indicative of whether you're the Top or bottom within that moment. I will also add that a specific act does not define whether one is Dom or sub.

D/s is Dominance and submission. ie: it's the power dynamic. It's about what happens outside of sex. You can engage in D/s and never engage in BDSM.

So, I would start by understanding where each fits in, rather than squishing them in together.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: From a sadomasochistic POV - I am looking for gener... - 8/8/2013 9:00:09 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama
I've certainly had sex just because I have a sex drive, with people I didn't know, and with people I no longer loved.

As have I - that's what you do as a "swinger".
And I have with people that I no longer loved too - but I wasn't living with them in a marriage or a relationship.

Op seems to think it's the norm, "just because" when in most cases, it just isn't.

(in reply to kalikshama)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: From a sadomasochistic POV - I am looking for gener... - 8/8/2013 9:10:57 AM   
pqui


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quote:

Op seems to think it's the norm, "just because" when in most cases, it just isn't.

I would tend to say no to that, but then I can't really read that sentence.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: From a sadomasochistic POV - I am looking for gener... - 8/8/2013 9:11:40 AM   
JeffBC


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From: Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pqui
So please, someone explain to me, what does it do for you.

In a sense Carol and I are what you describe. The only element we do is what you referred to as "power play" and what I refer to as "social dominance and submission". Between us it is hardly play. It is the way our two personalities work. That is the only driver... I'm a natural leader and she likes to be a great assistant. We're just an obvious fit to some sort of authority structure in our marriage.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to pqui)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: From a sadomasochistic POV - I am looking for gener... - 8/8/2013 9:20:24 AM   
pqui


Posts: 31
Joined: 8/8/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: pqui
So please, someone explain to me, what does it do for you.

In a sense Carol and I are what you describe. The only element we do is what you referred to as "power play" and what I refer to as "social dominance and submission". Between us it is hardly play. It is the way our two personalities work. That is the only driver... I'm a natural leader and she likes to be a great assistant. We're just an obvious fit to some sort of authority structure in our marriage.

But isn't that just like relationships in the 50s? To put it more sexist: where men were still men and it worked out naturally? At some point in history, it was even ok to beat women. I really see that more as a sort of vintage style relationship than BDSM. Or I don't get what you mean.

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: From a sadomasochistic POV - I am looking for gener... - 8/8/2013 9:23:39 AM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pqui
I really see that more as a sort of vintage style relationship than BDSM. Or I don't get what you mean.

Again, you're confusing BDSM and D/s. They are not the same thing.

So, yes....a 1950's relationship is a D/s power dynamic.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: From a sadomasochistic POV - I am looking for gener... - 8/8/2013 9:25:02 AM   
JeffBC


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From: Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pqui
But isn't that just like relationships in the 50s? To put it more sexist: where men were still men and it worked out naturally? At some point in history, it was even ok to beat women. I really see that more as a sort of vintage style relationship than BDSM. Or I don't get what you mean.

Very much so... if you kind of took the authority thing and expanded it A LOT.

I agree with you that we are not "BDSM". But still, you asked what someone got out of things like pure "power-play" and so I tried to answer. But you might see Carol and I at a play party. We have interests in common with BDSM people and we have BDSM friends etc. etc. So if you saw me standing around in such a place holding her leash you'd be presented with your question. In our case we would not be playing at anything most especially not "power". We'd be "out with friends having fun."

< Message edited by JeffBC -- 8/8/2013 9:27:37 AM >

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to pqui)
Profile   Post #: 40
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