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RE: Let's talk internal enslavement - 8/14/2013 8:48:15 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		For me it's called being in love....not lust, not fantasizing about bdsm, not overromanticizing...but love, real love that you feel deep down inside for someone and for me while it has been rare, it's not the first time for me so I think I may have a bit of a different perspective from many others, having been married and widowed to a man I loved as much as I do Master but yet incomparable as all relationships are.


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RE: Let's talk internal enslavement - 8/14/2013 9:22:28 PM   
tsatske


Posts: 2037
Joined: 3/9/2007
From: Louisville, KY
Status: offline 		It's really the only kind of relationships I'm interested in. I have been in M/s relationships that had the beginning of that, but they came to an end. IMO, only time can build this kind of relationship, which takes - uh, a whole bunch of things. Trust is one of them. And non-verbal communication (though verbal communication is super important, too). For me, it takes love - at least from my side, and since I'm not interested in experimenting with one directional love, for me, from both sides. It takes a good match - certain things have to work for me to begin down this road, like matched morals, and I need a kind of 'man's man', I'm not interested in a modern guy so much. Finding a traditional guy who communicates well, expresses his feelings, and is sensitive to my needs can be a challenge, but I believe it's worth it.

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RE: Let's talk internal enslavement - 8/14/2013 9:30:28 PM   
AAkasha


Posts: 4429
Joined: 11/27/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

For me it's called being in love....not lust, not fantasizing about bdsm, not overromanticizing...but love, real love that you feel deep down inside for someone and for me while it has been rare, it's not the first time for me so I think I may have a bit of a different perspective from many others, having been married and widowed to a man I loved as much as I do Master but yet incomparable as all relationships are.




Exactly - but when BDSM folks think that IE or TPE is somehow more binding (no pun intended) than traditional love, that's a bit deluded. And the reality is that people fall out of love. Relationships fail. It can be one person's fault or both. It can be totally out of the control of both people - outside circumstances causing pressure, like family or finances. It can even be mental illness or hormones. Just because in the structure of BDSM it has been called "TPE or "IE" does not make it immune to falling apart if one person says "I am done."

I find it especially narcissistic though for a dominant to claim TPE or IE over a woman when he ultimately cannot control if one day she does suffer a mental break, an epiphany, a life changing moment, a light bulb going off, and say "You know what, this is not what I want anymore." Guess what? IE out the window. Poof. Just like that. She may have been "IE" to the man she THOUGHT she knew. If YOU, the Master "changed" in her eyes, YOU are no longer her IE partner. Maybe you did change. Maybe you had a mental break. People change and relationships fail.

Or are people saying IE is -- I am your slave no matter who you are and who you change into? If you suffer a psychotic break and are put on 5150 I will still obey? Or if I start falling out of love because I am having my own crisis I will serve you despite my unhappiness?

I just question the unreasonableness beyond what a "vanilla" relationship entails. Is it really any different? Can Carol wake up one day and say "I don't want to do this. Stick your IE up your butt." I mean, what is stopping her? There is no legal document. But if she gets fed up, she does. If her partner starts a slow change in his personality do to outside life changes (we have also seen relationships go through this shift and partners drift), one day she may wake up and say "this is not the man I committed to, and I need out."

Just food for thought and no offense meant. As I said in my original post - what two people should do is what works for them. When it gets dangerous is when others try to emulate what is a difficult standard.

Akasha

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RE: Let's talk internal enslavement - 8/14/2013 9:31:38 PM   
dissolvedgirlk


Posts: 1
Joined: 8/12/2013
Status: offline 		I personally would love to be a slave in a relationship, or well really a slave. I would have to completely trust the other person before making such a commitment however.

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RE: Let's talk internal enslavement - 8/14/2013 9:35:00 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tsatske

It's really the only kind of relationships I'm interested in. I have been in M/s relationships that had the beginning of that, but they came to an end. IMO, only time can build this kind of relationship, which takes - uh, a whole bunch of things. Trust is one of them. And non-verbal communication (though verbal communication is super important, too). For me, it takes love - at least from my side, and since I'm not interested in experimenting with one directional love, for me, from both sides. It takes a good match - certain things have to work for me to begin down this road, like matched morals, and I need a kind of 'man's man', I'm not interested in a modern guy so much. Finding a traditional guy who communicates well, expresses his feelings, and is sensitive to my needs can be a challenge, but I believe it's worth it.



Thanks for statng so eloquently how I also feel.

Like you, it is ALL that I want to have, and it is ALL I am willing to settle for.
As usual it is not for everyone, and to each their own.

Peace and Blessings

< Message edited by Marini -- 8/14/2013 9:39:43 PM >

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RE: Let's talk internal enslavement - 8/14/2013 9:36:24 PM   
sunshinemiss


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Joined: 11/26/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

quote:

We are very far from agree on what is Total Power Exchanges if a slave all of a sudden decided to stop being a slave, then I will punish her and put her in her cage until she again learned her place as a slave, I see no walking away in a TPE relationship, the terms of slavery is agree before beginning of the slavery, and stays that way.


Errr,no.
Matter of fact, that's the worst possible answer, an epic fail of infinite size.
First, and most importantly, what you are doing is called unlawful detainment and it's a felony. At worst, it's kidnapping and it's a class A drop. Slap her and it's A&B. Beat her with an instrument and it's ADW, and a prosecutor might just slap an attempted with a deadly weapon on ya. And god help you if you have sex, because that's straight up rape.
That's purely the physical consequences. We ain't even discussed the mental/emotional ramifications at all.

Suffice to say that, to my eyes,resorting to such tactics demonstrates failure on his behalf, not hers.
Look, I don't dominate her because I command her (Though I can and do), I dominate her because I'm a man worth serving. The day I have to resort to holding her against her will is the day this stops being fun for me.
She serves because she can't imagine playing any other role in my life. That's where she feels comfort, that's where she feels safe, it gives her a clearly delineated role in life, proper perspective on exactly who and what she is, where she stands in the relationship, it helps define her as a person (Note that I'm segueing into KoM's awesome posts simultaneously).
She doesn't lose identity in serving, she gains it. She isn't lessened, but rather has over the years become more her.More herself, more who and what she was made to be.
Me? I'm just the sculptor chipping away all the loose stone that isn't her essence, freeing her of the blockage that prevents her from being/achieving/110% being/ the awesome person that she is.
That's why she serves.
She serves not out of fear, but out of respect, devotion, fealty, love, loyalty, joy. She serves that the purity of her service may honor me, and in doing so, honor herself.

That's the exchange. She gives all of who and what she is to me, and in turn, I funnel myself back through her via orders, dominion, structure, accountability, love-in other words, i give all of me. When properly done, as KoM has defined, the exchange forms a closed loop, no power is squandered and instead, it grows and feeds upon itself as it does so.
We give of self to the other and in doing so, we both grow.Not just in the relationships, not just within the roles we've defined, but as people, as lovers, as man and woman. The interaction of the TPE has embiggened us.

If I have to hold her against her will, I've already thrown all that stuff away. And I ain't willing to do that.
In fact, the base rule of our relationship is, "The door is always open."
Which is a rule that swings both ways I might add.
She can leave whenever she wants.
(Why would I want her otherwise? WTF am I-That Castro Cleveland cat? I have way too much ego to want to have anything to do with a chick who didn't want to be with me. You're with me cuz u wanna or you ain't there at all. Simple shit)
But then again, so can I.
That's the nuclear bomb in the relationship. I can always jet And I would if I thought it was the right thing to do, no matter how much it hurt. Done it in the past. Am willing to do it in the future (Though really really hope never to have to, as all good partners should). You can bet your bippies she knows it to.

I digress. The point is that good leaders create situations where others want to follow.You don't have to give orders, you have to command, and there's a world of difference between the two.




Damn fine post.


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RE: Let's talk internal enslavement - 8/14/2013 9:50:13 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline
quote:

1) Are you in or do you desire to be in an IE dynamic?

I have had two IE dynamic relationships in my life, it is the only type of serious relationship that I want.

2) What separates an IE dynamic from other authority dynamics?

It's hard to explain, but the strongest bonds are often internal bonds.
I think most would agree it often involves a spiritual level of connectedness.

Thanks for starting this thread Jeff.
You rock.

< Message edited by Marini -- 8/14/2013 9:54:37 PM >

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"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
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RE: Let's talk internal enslavement - 8/14/2013 10:13:58 PM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline 		This is what's at the heart of ie, to me:


quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

For me it's called being in love....not lust, not fantasizing about bdsm, not overromanticizing...but love, real love that you feel deep down inside for someone . . .




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RE: Let's talk internal enslavement - 8/14/2013 10:21:09 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

For me it's called being in love....not lust, not fantasizing about bdsm, not overromanticizing...but love, real love that you feel deep down inside for someone and for me while it has been rare, it's not the first time for me so I think I may have a bit of a different perspective from many others, having been married and widowed to a man I loved as much as I do Master but yet incomparable as all relationships are.


I get this. It's just how I love. I know I hold back a little because of fears, but eventually I let go of all that and just love.

It's funny because as he & I are now finally making solid plans to combine households, certain fears come of that I am faced with and have to deal with. And yet, deep inside I know it's all going to be just fine, because if I look past all the bullshit and see just how much we love each other, I have no doubt that because of my love for him I'm going to do whatever he wants, and because of his love for me he's going to make damn sure we stay in a good place.

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RE: Let's talk internal enslavement - 8/15/2013 7:51:55 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida


.......It's just how I love. ........



Yes... This really does say it all for me and my family. It's just how we love.

I have found that those that don't really get it. Will never get it and that is ok. It took me a long time to realize that just because the way we do it for us is so fucking fantastic doesn't mean for others it works. There are some and few on this board that get it. It's because the way they love is so very similar. I read the words of a few d types and can't help but yeah. Yeah! Speaks so much of the same thing I think and feel. Yeah there is differences. But differences in different shades of red not different colours of the rainbow.

Another lesson I learned. Just because I feel so perfect and so powerful in this dynamic does make it the best way to do it. It is best for me. My parents did it differently and it was best for them. My brother and his wife does it differently and it's best for them. Completely different colours frankly and most are very different colours. But that doesn't mean that there trust or love of commitment etc etc is less in anyway at all because its different. It might be less but not because of a different way of doing it or structure etc. It is only less because the people them selves lack the skills and/or the character that is needed to make the most of their relationship,


Yeah... It's just how we love........

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RE: Let's talk internal enslavement - 8/15/2013 9:34:31 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha
Exactly - but when BDSM folks think that IE or TPE is somehow more binding (no pun intended) than traditional love, that's a bit deluded. And the reality is that people fall out of love. Relationships fail. It can be one person's fault or both. It can be totally out of the control of both people - outside circumstances causing pressure, like family or finances. It can even be mental illness or hormones. Just because in the structure of BDSM it has been called "TPE or "IE" does not make it immune to falling apart if one person says "I am done."

I agree. Here's two "quirks" to that thought. For Carol and I, IE IS more binding in the sense that it would take longer for Carol to reach the point of "I'm done" starting from the place we are now. It would take her much, much longer if I were an asshat and actively resisted that. But really all that's doing is dragging out the pain not changing the root problem. It is also more binding for Carol and I because that is exactly the purpose I turn my authority to... not sexual hijinks... not weird emotional games. I'm a love and intimacy guy so I use my authority and control to enhance those things. Last I checked, love and intimacy are pretty binding for most people.k

I find it especially narcissistic though for a dominant to claim TPE or IE over a woman when he ultimately cannot control if one day she does suffer a mental break, an epiphany, a life changing moment, [or a zillion other things]
This is exactly where Carol and I are at this moment. Accordingly, she doesn't wear the collar. A pile of life stresses coupled with some fuck ups on my part have left the IE part non-existent. Accordingly, I do not call her "mine" and the collar sits in a drawer. I had to check what happened pretty carefully. She never disobeyed so the path back is open. But I agree with you.. I prefer to call a spade a spade. She is not internally enslaved in this moment... not by my definitions anyway. It goes without saying she still obeys... still asks for permission for things... all the simple stuff. I'm currently trying to decide what's best for us... do I walk back down the IE path or is there some other path that is now better for us.

Or are people saying IE is -- I am your slave no matter who you are and who you change into? If you suffer a psychotic break and are put on 5150 I will still obey? Or if I start falling out of love because I am having my own crisis I will serve you despite my unhappiness?
This is the land of BDSM stuff... roles, definitions, agreements, theories, rules.... pretty much everything except for reality. Not my cup o' tea. I think dynamics are dynamic... as are humans :)

I just question the unreasonableness beyond what a "vanilla" relationship entails. Is it really any different? Can Carol wake up one day and say "I don't want to do this. Stick your IE up your butt."
Sure could... with a caveat. That isn't going to happen "one day" it's going to be "one day after a long series of neglectful days on my part"... kind of exactly as happened.

I mean, what is stopping her? There is no legal document.
This is the only thing I disagree with in your whole post. Legal documents? I'm talking about dominance and submission here and no contracts are required... nor are any agreements. Yeah, I could stop her at least for a while... a few years... maybe her whole life... assuming I had a complete ethics-ectomy first. I could've stopped what's going on this time also. But I am just as stuck being "me" as she is being "her" so such things are not really on the table.

Overall though, thank you for bringing up "reality" here. Yes, dynamics are dynamic. Real life doesn't exist in pristine definitions and totalities. Humans are not roles. Life is change. Anything which was built can be undone again.

< Message edited by JeffBC -- 8/15/2013 9:35:09 AM >

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RE: Let's talk internal enslavement - 8/15/2013 9:43:33 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
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From: Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida
I get this. It's just how I love. I know I hold back a little because of fears, but eventually I let go of all that and just love.

This is certainly true of Carol and I also and I find it a uniquely succinct way to describe us. Nice statement.

In my mind though, there are always "fears". There is always a new horizon of control at the edge of my sight. I doubt she will ever let go of her fears entirely. To do so would be something other than human. Fear as an important and valuable part of the human brain. It exists for a reason and it can't be wished away.

I suppose I could make the fear irrelevant by finding a comfy spot and stopping the growth of our dynamic but that's not my style. As long as I am actively seeking to enhance, strengthen, and expand our dynamic then she will experience fear. It's just the fear is overwhelmed by trust so it's manageable... and I do such things in bite-sized measures ... at least when I'm doing the job right.

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RE: Let's talk internal enslavement - 8/15/2013 11:22:56 AM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

1) Are you in or do you desire to be in an IE dynamic?


Yes, for a few years now I have used IE techniques with my girl.

quote:


2) What separates an IE dynamic from other authority dynamics?



I would say they are just mainly labels to express different levels or intensity.


Internal Enslavement is just a phrase to describe that someone has psychological and emotional bonds that has removed or almost removed defiance to commands. It takes knowing the person very well and then establishing a technique and routine to use emotional and psychological factors to create the bond. It is something that must have active dominance on the part of the dominant personality. Extremes such as things that could harm a person physically or emotionally will eventually erode the enslavement. These things are best done with the submissive personality knowing in the beginning what the process will be and the outcome.

Most nefarious personalities will use techniques that erode the ego, causing issues with self esteem, an ultimately a broken psyche. The erosion of ego type techniques can be taken to extremes so that the person loses almost all identity of self.

The first method is not meant to remove sense of self, but the dominant personalities desires and commands to become priority over almost all other things. The actions of the submissive personality become ingrained and automatic, rather than active choice and consent happening. That is the whole purpose of IE techniques, and that is to make obedience as automatic as possible without the need to actively make a choice to do or not. One of my phrases taken from a movie is "There is my way and there is no highway." While there is always the chance that my girl will disobey and use the door, I do not put that out there as a choice.

Hope this helps.



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RE: Let's talk internal enslavement - 8/15/2013 12:47:43 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf
Hope this helps.

Very much so Orion and I was hoping you'd get to this thread. Thanks for taking the time.

Your view makes total sense to me... largely I think I've just chosen to focus on a few specifics because the initial bar was too easy to achieve.


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I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
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RE: Let's talk internal enslavement - 8/15/2013 2:55:39 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline 		Jeff on the topic of fears I would agree, but also add that in my case it can still, at rare times, be preventative. Meaning I'm either not ready, or that I actually do know what's best. There was one and only one time when that happened, because to comply would not have been healthy for me, and after much discussion, he understood and agreed. His push to go forward was due to his own apprehension about the subject, which had to do with a family issue.

We are a team. Him at the lead with my input. This is why I am not sure I can say true IE will ever be the case with us, and we're ok with that.

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RE: Let's talk internal enslavement - 8/16/2013 3:18:04 PM   
Kana


Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
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quote:

I find it especially narcissistic though for a dominant to claim TPE or IE over a woman when he ultimately cannot control if one day she does suffer a mental break, an epiphany, a life changing moment, [or a zillion other things]
This is exactly where Carol and I are at this moment. Accordingly, she doesn't wear the collar. A pile of life stresses coupled with some fuck ups on my part have left the IE part non-existent. Accordingly, I do not call her "mine" and the collar sits in a drawer. I had to check what happened pretty carefully. She never disobeyed so the path back is open. But I agree with you.. I prefer to call a spade a spade. She is not internally enslaved in this moment... not by my definitions anyway. It goes without saying she still obeys... still asks for permission for things... all the simple stuff. I'm currently trying to decide what's best for us... do I walk back down the IE path or is there some other path that is now better for us.

Or are people saying IE is -- I am your slave no matter who you are and who you change into? If you suffer a psychotic break and are put on 5150 I will still obey? Or if I start falling out of love because I am having my own crisis I will serve you despite my unhappiness?
This is the land of BDSM stuff... roles, definitions, agreements, theories, rules.... pretty much everything except for reality. Not my cup o' tea. I think dynamics are dynamic... as are humans :)

I just question the unreasonableness beyond what a "vanilla" relationship entails. Is it really any different? Can Carol wake up one day and say "I don't want to do this. Stick your IE up your butt."
Sure could... with a caveat. That isn't going to happen "one day" it's going to be "one day after a long series of neglectful days on my part"... kind of exactly as happened.

I mean, what is stopping her? There is no legal document.
This is the only thing I disagree with in your whole post. Legal documents? I'm talking about dominance and submission here and no contracts are required... nor are any agreements. Yeah, I could stop her at least for a while... a few years... maybe her whole life... assuming I had a complete ethics-ectomy first. I could've stopped what's going on this time also. But I am just as stuck being "me" as she is being "her" so such things are not really on the table.

Overall though, thank you for bringing up "reality" here. Yes, dynamics are dynamic. Real life doesn't exist in pristine definitions and totalities. Humans are not roles. Life is change. Anything which was built can be undone again.


Jeff,I wanna touch on a couple of points here so if you don't mind I'm gonna go by paragraph. The first one I'm answering you, but the remainder I'm mostly answering the color coded quotes:

1-Maybe this is different for us than it is for you, I suspect mostly because you started as a couple and then wandered into BDSM/IE whereas the mouse and I met with a bound relationship in mind, or at least hope. The center of our relationship is the TPE, it's the sun around which everything else orbits. And it provides the gravitational pull that locks everything else into place. Thus, no matter whether I am in the process of actively exercising my command or not, it's always present.
Sometimes the leash is loose.Sometimes it's tight. Once in a while I drop it and see where she meanders off too, not as a test, more for shits and giggles.
But that leash-she's always there.
For me to say I'm not taking that role would be to change the basis of our entire interaction.

In essence, it would most likely mean that I am no longer the man she committed to, or vice versa.In either case,it would almost certainly nullify our arrangement.
Why? Because I'm not dominant and she slave because those are the roles we chose, they are who and what we are as people. Dropping the lash would mean I am a fundamental has happened to me on an internal level, that I quite literally am a different man than the one she gave over to, and should she choose a pattern of willful disobedience the same would hold true.
Not to mention that for her to not be in IE is essentially saying she is no longer in love with me.
Which is a death knell for any relationship,bound or not.

I rarely, as in maybe once a year give advice on the forums. I'm gonna now. Pick up the leash my man.It doesn't have to be tight, and it doesn't have to be brutal,but take up that authority you promised to give her so many years ago when you began this journey.
You owe her that.You owe you that.But most of all, you owe the both of you that.

Grins.Course, as is my wont, I'm probably completely off base and giving the worlds worst advice, but that's my thoughts.

If life is kicking your ass, face it as a united we, bound together. And if you made some mistakes, well shit, they ain't the first you've made and they sure as hell ain't the last.
The key thing is that you move through it together, let that Total Power enhancement KoM so wonderfully coined (Man, I wanna patent that) be the vehicle which sees you two to safe harbor.

2-Moving on from Jeff, Nope.I think I answered that pretty clearly in the above comment.But as I mentioned earlier, one of the key terms of our relationship is that the door is always open. Either party can leave at any time, for any reason. But we won't.If either were the sort of person who acted in such ways, we wouldn't be a we.
There's no singularities here. We are both in it because we 100% want to be. And if one day I went loopy, she'd be entirely within her rights to exit stage right pronto.

True this-Twice in our years, things have gone down and she felt that she could not meet my needs/wants and tried to quit the relationship.Both times I refused. Sat down, talked it through, hashed shit out cold. And both times the nature of our interaction shifted. In response to a medical condition, we once shifted from a whole lot of hard pain to a more subtle mental layer of sadism. Things changed. The way we played.The way we interacted.
But we stayed and grew.Together.Which was/is the key.Both of us want to be in this a whole helluva lot more than we would even consider being out (As in, at least on my side, speaking only for moi, 100%: 0%) and that only makes all the difference in the world.
We've had some hard times.Been poor, underemployed, kid problems, serious illnesses, and we've always faced them together.

3-See above.

4-Nah, there is no legal document. But then again, what is that document but a commitment in the eyes of the law that's already long ago been made in the heart. Besides, it ain't like married folk ain't getting divorced in droves either, right.
The thing that keeps her is love.
But there's more than that. We know each other as people.To the bone.
And the two of us, when it comes to relationships, we're stickers.I haven't been casual about em in ages and most of my relationships are real long term. Same with her.
See, the bet we make isn't on something as fragile as love, we bet on who we are as people, and both of us are loyal, honest, people of integrity.It just ain't in our nature to up and split. Because neither of us is in the emotionally hurting others business, especially those we love and who love us.

< Message edited by Kana -- 8/16/2013 3:28:16 PM >

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"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die. "
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(in reply to NuevaVida)
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RE: Let's talk internal enslavement - 8/16/2013 7:14:03 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida
Jeff on the topic of fears I would agree, but also add that in my case it can still, at rare times, be preventative.

I totally agree.

Honestly, anyone who thinks emotions aren't real has no business owning a human. THey should own a sewing machine. Whether or not those fears are well grounded they are a part of the landscape which must be navigated and navigated safely... emotionally and every other way.


_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 117
RE: Let's talk internal enslavement - 8/16/2013 7:53:32 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana
1-Maybe this is different for us than it is for you...

Reading your post carefully I don't think so (although you know how text is... who knows, right?)

I think a part of it is that I discount levels of D/s that most folks would call M/s simply because it is "just us". So your advice of "pick up the leash even if it's loose" would be "vanilla" to us... and it isn't that loose by pretty much any standard but ours. As I write this the woman is 2000 miles away at my command. She returns when I tell her to. She is enacting my will while there. She has put off various work commitments to do so. She calls daily to seek my advice on how to proceed and occasionally get permission as needed. I am the one balancing her career as a portrait painter vs. her commitments to her own family. All of that is just vanilla to us. In the way you meant loose leash -- "don't abdicate my role which she needs me to fill", that was never even possible.

Nothing in your post seemed particularly alien to me. Other than your freaky sadism crap yours and LW's posts always have that ring of "sounds like us." I just think my idea of a "dynamic in tatters" is a bit different than most. Your general advice of "pick up a shovel and start digging as a team" is always sound advice for what ails a relationship :)

What I don't have the chips for right now is the direct editing type commands like, "Do <insert something bad here> and like it." I could have her do it. But I could not enforce the second part of that right now. So we're working to bridge that gap. When I say the "IE part is nonexistent" that's what I'm referring to.

edited to laugh about the fact that...
as I was pondering this I realized that now of all times I COULD enforce the second part of that. Carol is pretty determined to get things fixed and I suspect such a command would receive even more attention from her than normal. That's a flimsy support though and I'd prefer to wait until proper levels of trust & respect are back in place.



< Message edited by JeffBC -- 8/16/2013 8:02:05 PM >

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to Kana)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: Let's talk internal enslavement - 8/16/2013 8:21:10 PM   
Kana


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Joined: 10/24/2006
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quote:

as I was pondering this I realized that now of all times I COULD enforce the second part of that. Carol is pretty determined to get things fixed and I suspect such a command would receive even more attention from her than normal. That's a flimsy support though and I'd prefer to wait until proper levels of trust & respect are back in place.

Of course. She's existed within a TPE for an extended period of time.Having it removed it going to leave her in an alien uncomfortable place. Hence my feedback.
You can enforce the second part. That's your option. Right now you are opting not to.
Which, IMHE (In my humble experience) is the exact opposite of what need be done. The proper levels of trust and respect will return when you return to your accustomed roles, whereas the other is not necessarily true.
I'm not saying things will return to the status quo, that will change because you two are altered, but the dynamic will survive and thrive.

Just sayin...



_____________________________

"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die. "
HST

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: Let's talk internal enslavement - 8/16/2013 9:04:49 PM   
AlluraVogue


Posts: 41
Joined: 6/6/2013
Status: offline 		I've read a bit and I'm seeing a lot of contrast between IE and TPE but....I still have no clue what "IE" stands for. Enlighten me, please?

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 120
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