RE: How Do I get my wife to agree????

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LadyPact -> RE: How Do I get my wife to agree???? (8/17/2013 7:55:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: descrite Is it really so hard, therefore, to be honest in relationships, and let your partner seek sexual release externally when you are unable to fulfill that aspect? Ten years of picking up groceries. Twenty years of wiping kids' sniffling noses. Thirty years of getting the oil changed on the the minivan every 3,000 miles. You're telling me that having a piece on the side so dramatically outweighs these things that it tips the apple cart straight into divorce court? You think the dishonesty is a bid deal? Gosh. You sure don't seem to put much value in those other things, then. Would that I had the pulpit, I would teach all American men to reduce the performance level for relationships-- if those things don't buy credit, then we ought cease doing them. If the sole measure of "good SO" is monogamy/honesty, we should just concentrate on that, and stop wasting energy on that other crap. [Pro tip: women, you don't want honesty. You think you do. But you don't. Because, really: yes, you look fat in that dress, okay? Stop bugging us about it. But it's cute that you lie about honesty.] Dude, you are so barking up the wrong tree. (Did you happen to forget that we are poly? Might change things if you're response was to Me personally, rather than in general.) Piece on the side doesn't tip the apple cart. Lying about piece on the side does. (This is just My view, so please don't be misled to thinking that I'm speaking for anyone else.) In My personal case, dishonesty does buy a person a one way ticket out of My life. I'm pretty up front about that. And, let's throw a dose of reality in there. Those years of groceries and oil changes and runny noses....... Guess what? You'd be doing that whether the wife was there or not. They are your groceries, vehicles, and kids, too. It's not like you're doing something out of the goodness of your heart that isn't a part of your own household. You sound like those guys who call it "babysitting" when they are watching their own kid for the afternoon. [8\|]

descrite -> RE: How Do I get my wife to agree???? (8/17/2013 12:09:42 PM)
quote: Why should she be required to be a fucking mind-reader? She's not. She's supposed to put out on a regular basis. And, when unable to do so, to find him a way to get off without her. Either party should (i.e., this is not gender-dependent). quote: You'd be doing that whether the wife was there or not. You have a bizarre notion of how single men live. Seriously, though, point = missed. Again. I will try to restate: regular posters on this site have talked about how sex should not be integral to the relationship, if it becomes inconvenient (?!) for one party, and the other party (parties?) should "wait it out," because sex just isn't that important (?!???!). Supposedly, then, the things that make up the "relationship," from the perspective of these posters, are those nonphysical, asexual elements, the sharing of chores, finances, hardship, etc.; the companionate aspects. Sex is -somehow- just a disposable element. But when sex is experienced outside the "relationship," not it's paramount, and (somehow) a mark of being "dishonest." If sex is not so important that it must be delivered throughout the course of a relationship, then getting it on the side cannot be "dishonest." I think we can agree that there are plenty of bodily functions we don't try to control in our partner. If our partner sneezed in the car on the way to work and didn't tell us, we wouldn't feel cheated. That wouldn't be dishonest. We feel that way about sex, because sex is paramount in a relationship (to most normal people, contrary to what some posters here seem to feel). So if sex is found elsewhere, we see it as betrayal. It can't be both ways. Either it is paramount in relationships (and I think it is; fucking is what distinguishes my relationships from my friendships-- I have lots of friends I don't fuck; they're called "men"), and therefore both partners should constantly be responsible for the sexual fulfillment of their partner(s), or it isn't, and there's no betrayal in doing it with others-- it can't be both.

OrionTheWolf -> RE: How Do I get my wife to agree???? (8/17/2013 1:27:58 PM)
I see your point and agree with some of them. Physical intimacy is very important and the genders place importance on it differently and in different ways. Physical intimacy is part of a relationship that often will make or break it. This does not mean people are shallow, it means on a more basic level they may require physical intimacy to fuel other aspects. Where the dishonesty comes into play is getting that physical intimacy from someone other than the person you have promised monogamy to, without their consent. If physical intimacy was an agreed upon portion of a relationship, then stopping that intimacy or not working on the issues of not having it, is dishonest as well. Most that have gone into relationships usually have silent understandings and agreements to these, and if one party is breaking the agreements they have just as much responsibility and accountability. Relationships change and the issue comes down to communication when these changes happen. If sex is a form of physical intimacy that is required then those in the relationship should work to reconcile it in whatever way is required. That can be working towards having sex, more sex, accepting that there may not be sex or moving onto to someone else. A person is not bad for feeling they require sex, but they are bad if they handle it in dishonest ways. Reading the OP, I think the actual subject of "How to include your SO in BDSM or kinky sex" would have been better to address than the lynch mob that is seen time and time again. I do not like cheaters but the OP was asking how to bring his SO into it, which means there would have been communication between the two in some way. Harping on the cheating side and not giving suggestions on how to communicate these desires, just places another wedge in that relationship. Now each time someone brings an OP like this up, and a bunch of posters change the OP to "Cheating", then isn't that hijacking and making off topic comments? Now a question I have is: How do you bring a vanilla SO into a more kinky and/or BDSM activities, which may include a younger third as a S type?

LadyPact -> RE: How Do I get my wife to agree???? (8/17/2013 2:46:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: descrite You have a bizarre notion of how single men live. Seriously, though, point = missed. Again. I will try to restate: regular posters on this site have talked about how sex should not be integral to the relationship, if it becomes inconvenient (?!) for one party, and the other party (parties?) should "wait it out," because sex just isn't that important (?!???!). Supposedly, then, the things that make up the "relationship," from the perspective of these posters, are those nonphysical, asexual elements, the sharing of chores, finances, hardship, etc.; the companionate aspects. Sex is -somehow- just a disposable element. But when sex is experienced outside the "relationship," not it's paramount, and (somehow) a mark of being "dishonest." If sex is not so important that it must be delivered throughout the course of a relationship, then getting it on the side cannot be "dishonest." I think we can agree that there are plenty of bodily functions we don't try to control in our partner. If our partner sneezed in the car on the way to work and didn't tell us, we wouldn't feel cheated. That wouldn't be dishonest. We feel that way about sex, because sex is paramount in a relationship (to most normal people, contrary to what some posters here seem to feel). So if sex is found elsewhere, we see it as betrayal. It can't be both ways. Either it is paramount in relationships (and I think it is; fucking is what distinguishes my relationships from my friendships-- I have lots of friends I don't fuck; they're called "men"), and therefore both partners should constantly be responsible for the sexual fulfillment of their partner(s), or it isn't, and there's no betrayal in doing it with others-- it can't be both. You might be correct that I don't know how single men live. Any that I've actually lived with, I didn't consider single. [:-] How about, rather than either/or, we go for option three. Walk your ass up to the person that you live with and say the following: "Our sex life is not frequent enough to be satisfying. My drive is higher than yours. There are options for us to resolve this. Which of those options would be your preference?" That's called "open your mouth" and deal with the other person in your life in an honest way. It completely boggles My mind that people who consider themselves "dominant" can't manage taking charge of the situation and doing that. To be honest, I consider you to be outspoken and I'd have a hard time believing that you couldn't do that. (For the record, yes, I've done it.) We're on page seventeen on this thread and so far, I haven't seen one person put up a reason why honesty isn't an option.

LadyPact -> RE: How Do I get my wife to agree???? (8/17/2013 2:57:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf Now a question I have is: How do you bring a vanilla SO into a more kinky and/or BDSM activities, which may include a younger third as a S type? I don't know if this will fit your question but I wrote an essay on that three or four years ago on the poly board. I called it "How we went from monogamy to poly" and it should be able to be found through the search feature. It's one of the classes that I've given on the national circuit and got a really nice review on Leatheratti.

OrionTheWolf -> RE: How Do I get my wife to agree???? (8/17/2013 6:51:01 PM)
Well I hope those that are interested will search and read it. I primarily asked the question because that is what I saw as the "meat" of the OP. quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf Now a question I have is: How do you bring a vanilla SO into a more kinky and/or BDSM activities, which may include a younger third as a S type? I don't know if this will fit your question but I wrote an essay on that three or four years ago on the poly board. I called it "How we went from monogamy to poly" and it should be able to be found through the search feature. It's one of the classes that I've given on the national circuit and got a really nice review on Leatheratti.

littlewonder -> RE: How Do I get my wife to agree???? (8/17/2013 7:03:20 PM)
quote: Jesus, 'talk about a victimless crime. If the guy was being taken care of at home, he wouldn't be there. Or here. Aint nobody at the go-go bar who has a hottie like Little Wonder in the wings. And for most of 'em, fearless life changing and searing self-examination aint gonna offer one up -ever. You couldn't be more wrong on this. My husband loved to go to titty bars. He got more sex at home than he could ever want. He didn't go to them because he was missing out on it at home. He just liked to go and see the hot women. He also liked porn. But here's the difference. He had my permission. Had he gone and lied to me then yes I would have seen it as cheating. It's dishonest and hidden behind my back. If you have to hide ANYTHING from me when in a relationship, you are cheating...period.

kalikshama -> RE: How Do I get my wife to agree???? (8/17/2013 7:41:15 PM)
quote: How about, rather than either/or, we go for option three. Walk your ass up to the person that you live with and say the following: "Our sex life is not frequent enough to be satisfying. My drive is higher than yours. There are options for us to resolve this. Which of those options would be your preference?" That's called "open your mouth" and deal with the other person in your life in an honest way. It completely boggles My mind that people who consider themselves "dominant" can't manage taking charge of the situation and doing that. To be honest, I consider you to be outspoken and I'd have a hard time believing that you couldn't do that. (For the record, yes, I've done it.) We're on page seventeen on this thread and so far, I haven't seen one person put up a reason why honesty isn't an option. Yes, this would indeed be the ethical thing to do. This is pretty much the convo I vowed to have if needed when I resolved to not cheat in future relationships. Being a submissive, I would say it more diplomatically [:)] The Ethical Slut opened my eyes to many possibilities other than cheating. I had the Guide to Infinite Sexual Possibilities edition; it's now taglined A Practical Guide to Polyamory, Open Relationships & Other Adventures.

kalikshama -> RE: How Do I get my wife to agree???? (8/17/2013 7:43:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf Well I hope those that are interested will search and read it. I primarily asked the question because that is what I saw as the "meat" of the OP. quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf Now a question I have is: How do you bring a vanilla SO into a more kinky and/or BDSM activities, which may include a younger third as a S type? I don't know if this will fit your question but I wrote an essay on that three or four years ago on the poly board. I called it "How we went from monogamy to poly" and it should be able to be found through the search feature. It's one of the classes that I've given on the national circuit and got a really nice review on Leatheratti. Here it is: How We Transitioned From Monogamy To Poly

cloudboy -> RE: How Do I get my wife to agree???? (8/17/2013 8:01:56 PM)
quote: I have to add another observation. Well, here's the flipside, in this thread: many regular posters state that they would ditch a partner, even a partner of over a decade, a partner who (contrary otherwise unstated) has presumably been there for them, through financial hardship and family problems and bringing up children and living life and building a home and all the other things partners do for each other, if they determined that the partner had had "just sex" with someone else. So-- it's just sex. Except when it isn't. Spiffy. I can't really tell what position you've taken in this thread, but didn't you recommend the OP get divorced based on a CMMB thread? That struck me as whacked, and it also doesn't comport with what you said above.

LadyPact -> RE: How Do I get my wife to agree???? (8/17/2013 8:07:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kalikshama Here it is: How We Transitioned From Monogamy To Poly Thank you very much for your assistance. Always appreciated.

sexyred1 -> RE: How Do I get my wife to agree???? (8/17/2013 8:25:09 PM)
When these threads take on a life of their own it is always telling to read the replies. I for one, am thrilled to be reading what men really think about cheating, etc. A few things stand out for me: - Men seem to have an overwhelming experience of their women "not putting out" or stopping having sex, for reasons other than illness or stress. Interesting since I know a lot of women and none of them, including me, ever used sex as a weapon and stopped "putting out". In fact, I would venture to say that every woman I know, including myself have a super high sex drive and the only way we would stop having sex is if were really ill, or we were being lied and cheating on. The only way a woman stops having sex with you is if you stop pleasing her, sorry guys. In fact, women that I know don't care about cheating from a sexual point of view, it is always about being lied to and trust broken. Especially when the sex at home is awesome. - Which brings me to point two: men seem to be saying that men cheat if they are not getting what they want at home. That is not true in most cases. I know men who have gorgeous wives/girlfriends who cheat with ugly women and they say its not because their wife/girlfriend is not giving them what they want, they just like some new "strange" (their words, not mine). Honestly you could have porn style monkey sex and some guys still need to stick it somewhere else, because.....they are guys. Women who are pleased do not usually need to have more than one guy. - There seems to be a huge contingent of men here who are really up in arms about not judging or condemning a cheater because we are in a kinky lifestyle. As LadyP keeps saying, ad nauseum, it is never about where you ram your dick, it is all about lying. If you have an issue, tell the woman. - Another thing, some men are the ones who stop having sex with women. Is it ok for her to go out to a club and pick up guys too? - Finally, the whole discussion of who does what from a financial/homemaking/parenting perspective is ridiculous. Both partnerr should be equal contributors to whatever is going on while in a relationship.

descrite -> RE: How Do I get my wife to agree???? (8/18/2013 2:56:17 AM)
quote: "Our sex life is not frequent enough to be satisfying. My drive is higher than yours. There are options for us to resolve this. Which of those options would be your preference?" Totally agree. But, again-- not my point. I was highlighting the dichotomy of opinions based on case that many of the regular posters here seem to have. I don't think these things should be case-dependent: I think they should be consistent. I like things neat and repeatable. I am a dom and believer in science. quote: The only way a woman stops having sex with you is if you stop pleasing her, sorry guys. Okay. Then she should do the honest and honorable thing and tell her man this. And, if she continues to be displeased, to the degree she decides not to put out, she ought allow him another sexual outlet, or leave. See? This is consistent with what I said about men who are not being pleased by their partners: find another outlet or leave. cloudboy, take note; when a concept is uniform regardless of state, we call that "consistent." In the old days, we said, "What's good for the goose..." Especially apt here. Freezing out a partner can be done by either party-- I was not placing a gender value on it. I have seen it more in married women, but I know of it in married men. I would venture to say that men are less inclined to be upset if they discover their partner is viewing porn and/or masturbating (as if there is anyone, anywhere, who is NOT viewing porn and/or masturbating). Post #321's discussion of relationships and sex in relationships doesn't even include gender (except in so far as mentioning which gender I have sex -and relationships- with); that wasn't the point of the post. The point, one more time, is that members of CollarMe have said that sex is not important in a relationship and have also said that extra-relation sex is cause for termination...both. That is...inherently inconsistent.

ChatteParfaitt -> RE: How Do I get my wife to agree???? (8/18/2013 4:12:09 AM)
quote: The point, one more time, is that members of CollarMe have said that sex is not important in a relationship and have also said that extra-relation sex is cause for termination...both. That is...inherently inconsistent. That's only inconsistent if it's the same person saying both. This forum has a long history of having members with inconsistent views. quote: The only way a woman stops having sex with you is if you stop pleasing her, sorry guys. Okay. Then she should do the honest and honorable thing and tell her man this. And, if she continues to be displeased, to the degree she decides not to put out, she ought allow him another sexual outlet, or leave. I agree with descrite on this one (write it down on the calendar). Very often people have a lousy sex life b/c the male is a lousy lay. But it's often not his fault. Most men are lousy lays, b/c they've never had a female take the time to teach him what to do. I've had sex with both males and females, and though both sex vary in their responses, females vary far more than males. It's my strong opinion that the female has to show the male how to get it right. This doesn't have to be a full course lecture, often making the right (or wrong) noises are the appropriate time can work wonders. I've never known a dom male that was good in bed who didn't have the benefit of a generous lady who taught him some skills. Having got all that out of the way, having a great sex life should be important to both, and if it's not happening, yes, it's time for a serious talk and an agreement to work on it until it gets better. It's a shame more females can't communicate when they are unhappy. I see it as a dom's responsibility to get their s-type to open up about this sort of thing.

chatterbox24 -> RE: How Do I get my wife to agree???? (8/18/2013 5:12:22 AM)
Sex is the one unique thing we do with our partner/partners, whether monogamous, or poly. I would comment it is very important in our relationships. Not always is the lack, or slow down an indicator of relationship problems but many times it is (health problems, self worry, ones own internal problems can play just as much into it). Just as said earlier, women generally have a decline of want of sex, when their needs are not being met in other areas, which are not sexual in the least. Generally, they tell the man/partner too, I am not happy about.....................but one has to be listening to catch the cues. The person has to care to want to please their partner. Sometimes unfortunately when the thrill and excitement wears off in a relationship, so does the level of caring. Usually its a very good indicator whether one married/partnered for the right reasons. If you truly loved that person, or if it was about meeting ones own self gratification. Was the union about many areas of compatibility which has a better chance of lasting, or was it about the sex? Lets not forget to add, that lusting after different partners may have nothing to do with lack in the relationship too. It may have everything to do with ones need to feel attractive, to feed insecurities and weaknesses, trying to use sex or others opinions of our sexiness to fill a bottomless void.

ChatteParfaitt -> RE: How Do I get my wife to agree???? (8/18/2013 5:26:40 AM)
Most excellent post. I have known those who cheat from a place of low self-esteem. They tend to be emotional vampires who are like a black hole -- they can't be emotionally validated. I would submit that being in that place is painful, but it appears it's so painful they have to bury it so deeply they don't seem to recognize the pain. This reminds me of RS's post about those 'doms' who feel being a 'true dom' means you get to have sex with whomever you want, and of course you don't clue the sub in, since most won't agree to that. Most especially since very often in these relationships, what's goes for the gander is forbidden for the goose.

angelikaJ -> RE: How Do I get my wife to agree???? (8/18/2013 5:41:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sexyred1 When these threads take on a life of their own it is always telling to read the replies. I for one, am thrilled to be reading what men really think about cheating, etc. A few things stand out for me: - Men seem to have an overwhelming experience of their women "not putting out" or stopping having sex, for reasons other than illness or stress. Interesting since I know a lot of women and none of them, including me, ever used sex as a weapon and stopped "putting out". In fact, I would venture to say that every woman I know, including myself have a super high sex drive and the only way we would stop having sex is if were really ill, or we were being lied and cheating on. The only way a woman stops having sex with you is if you stop pleasing her, sorry guys. In fact, women that I know don't care about cheating from a sexual point of view, it is always about being lied to and trust broken. Especially when the sex at home is awesome. - Which brings me to point two: men seem to be saying that men cheat if they are not getting what they want at home. That is not true in most cases. I know men who have gorgeous wives/girlfriends who cheat with ugly women and they say its not because their wife/girlfriend is not giving them what they want, they just like some new "strange" (their words, not mine). Honestly you could have porn style monkey sex and some guys still need to stick it somewhere else, because.....they are guys. Women who are pleased do not usually need to have more than one guy. - There seems to be a huge contingent of men here who are really up in arms about not judging or condemning a cheater because we are in a kinky lifestyle. As LadyP keeps saying, ad nauseum, it is never about where you ram your dick, it is all about lying. If you have an issue, tell the woman. - Another thing, some men are the ones who stop having sex with women. Is it ok for her to go out to a club and pick up guys too? - Finally, the whole discussion of who does what from a financial/homemaking/parenting perspective is ridiculous. Both partnerr should be equal contributors to whatever is going on while in a relationship. I don't think it is a matter of using sex (or the lack of it) as a weapon. I think this part of the post got it right: quote: ORIGINAL: CynthiaWVirginia I've known many women over the years who have shut down sexually within their marriage, and each time the same reasons came up. It wasn't health, nor boredom; it was...feeling a lack of emotional intimacy and a lack of...trust. Sure there are some women who have less of an emotional connection between sex and the health of their relationships, but for most women in a committed relationship, sex is solely not about sex. Sex is about emotional and physical intimacy and if there are issues with the relationship that affect emotional intimacy, in turn it affects the physical aspect. While it is true that people can be in a bad relationship and have amazing sex, it is rarely true that people in a healthy relationship don't want to enjoy sex with their partners. That is not to invalidate that when a woman loses interest in sex it comes across as rejection of her mate, which is very painful.

cloudboy -> RE: How Do I get my wife to agree???? (8/18/2013 7:26:00 AM)
But for many women, the cause of their sexual malaise appears to be monogamy itself. It is women much more than men who have H.S.D.D., who don’t feel heat for their steady partners. But desire resists comprehension. Whether it is mainly a raw drive or a complex emotion is a question that has bedeviled psychiatry for decades. And the fading of desire can seem impossibly intricate. Is it a result of a lack of intimacy or its cause? -------- Hypoactive sexual desire disorder (HSDD) is considered a sexual dysfunction and is characterized as a lack or absence of sexual fantasies and desire for sexual activity, as judged by a clinician.

DarkSteven -> RE: How Do I get my wife to agree???? (8/18/2013 7:32:37 AM)
All right. The OP is headed on a course of self destruction. 1. He's got a bad marriage. While usually this is due to both partners, I don't see the effort on his part to get the marriage back on track. 2. Blaming the poor sex on "her asthma, plus other things" is disingenuous. He's deliberately underplaying his own role in the problem. 3. The idea of thinking that the marriage is good except for the sex, so he can go outside the marriage to provide the missing element, indicates a poor understanding of how much time and effort an additional relationship will take. It also hints that he's not aware that his own relationship needs more time than he's been putting into it. 4. Making a sock was huge. The fact that he felt he needed to create one, shows the same pattern as his marriage - the thread wasn't going well for him, so he created someone new to say the things he didn't want to say as himself. He cheated on us just like he tried to cheat on his wife. OP, you're not cut out for deception. Your sock was a dominant male, almost the same age as yourself. He never made any posts, except for this thread, and seemed passionately invested in your situation. His profile was pretty much blank. He was created and instantly jumped into this thread. It was pretty easy to see he was a sock. So... try again to make it work with your wife. Try starting with little things you say. My favorites are I;m glad I have you. I'm glad you're here. Is something wrong? How can I help? How about going on a walk with me tonight? I've been doing XX a lot lately. I'd like it if you would do it alongside me. Check out Chapman's site about the five languages of love. Ask yourself what your wife's major languages are, and think how to meet them. Ask yourself what your languages are, and ask your wife to meet them. Your marriage is better than you think. Go work on it, feed it, and let it feed you. Best of luck.

cloudboy -> RE: How Do I get my wife to agree???? (8/18/2013 7:42:42 AM)
I really feel you are putting your own ideas and philosophies into action here, instead of taking the OP at his word and giving him more credit for understanding his own marital situation. It was not clear to me that he had a "bad marriage." On a scale of 1-10 it seemed to me his marriage was at least 5 b/c his complaints were really rather limited in scope. How do you know he created a sock? The anonymous male poster describing his own sexless marriage could have been someone else. Besides, that guy has solved his problem. (Assuming I understand your reference.) Of course at this point, we are all just talking to ourselves b/c the OP has flown the coop.

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