RE: Let's see if we can keep this one civilized...

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WarMachine904 -> RE: Let's see if we can keep this one civilized... (8/17/2013 10:06:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact quote: ORIGINAL: WarMachine904 Personally, I object to the idea of a male sub or a female dominant. I can't understand how either can exist. To me it is like a parallel universe. Greetings. My name is Lady Pact. It is a pleasure to formally meet you. What we are about to do here is often called a lesson in learning. We shall discuss furthering your education so that ignorance can be left aside. My dear, ask yourself this question. What about you makes you Dominant? Is it that little thing between your legs? That, literal six to nine inches that God bestowed upon you? Dude, sexual Dominance is weak. Any idiot can do that. Dominance isn't about sex. Thinking that it is would be small. If it were all about that, I wouldn't even bother wasting My time. Yeah, tell Me that I'm not Dominant because I don't have a penis. LadyPact, I am pleased to make your acquaintance as well. No it isn't my penis that makes me Dominant. It is my need for control. I become more aroused by the assertion of control than by the physical acts themselves. It is not merely in the bedroom either. In all aspects of life, this shows as well. I enjoy not only asserting the control but understanding why others allow me to control. For me being Dominant covers a whole lot of areas: physical, mental, emotional, and sexual. But back to your reply...What I believe or don't believe doesn't affect you, your dynamic, or your playspace. You are not going to change my view anymore than I am going to change yours. The point I was making was making in the post, was that despite my beliefs I will not actively take up arms against female dominants, hunt them down, and burn them at the stake! I don't care what they do. I am not offended by their beliefs. I just agree to disagree. So you see, my dear, I am perfectly happy to have intelligent conversation about it, but if you think you are going to "school" me into your way of thinking...don't waste your time.

LadyPact -> RE: Let's see if we can keep this one civilized... (8/17/2013 10:27:03 AM)
No. What you believe doesn't affect Me one bit. It won't change a damn thing. I don't come to forums to help Me understand My Dominance, or to question those of others. I have no reason to "school" you. If you were to open up your world enough to see outside or yourself, others would do that for you. Such debates are silly and foolish. Sooner or later, you WILL find yourself dealing with a Dominant woman and the crow on your plate will not suit your taste. It may be ten days or ten years from now, but I assure you that it will happen. To steal the line from the movie, it is hard to fill a cup that is already full. You just haven't realized yet that your cup is empty.

ChatteParfaitt -> RE: Let's see if we can keep this one civilized... (8/17/2013 10:39:46 AM)
quote: No it isn't my penis that makes me Dominant. It is my need for control. You and I have a very different definition of dominance. Subs 'need' dominance, doms exert it. The best ones make it look transparent.

WarMachine904 -> RE: Let's see if we can keep this one civilized... (8/17/2013 10:50:58 AM)
Jeff, Yeah, I'm sure this is about to get really heated now, but what the hell, you always have some great perspectives! For me being dominant is not simply a sexual title. As it relates to BDSM, I would say that someone who experinces increased arousal from the assertion of control over another would be defined as dominant. Whereas those who experience increased arousal from having control asserted over them would be submissive. Likewise those who experience increased arousal during either dynamic would be a switch. But for me that is a very limited way of answering the question. My dynamic at home exists and flourishes because we both fill a need for one another. I am a natural leader, and she is a natural follower. That is the authority structure that you refer to quite often. A group needs an authority structure in order to efficiently achieve its goals. You cannot have all leaders and no followers anymore than you can have all followers and no leaders. So I lead, and she defers, as you say. Sexually, she gains gratification from submitting. The more control that I assert over her, phyically or mentally, the more arroused she becomes. Likewise, the more control I assert over her, the more arroused I become. But it goes deeper than that as well. I assert control in all aspects of my life, because that is who I am. Sometimes the control is in a physical sense, sometimes it is mental, but my natural instinct is to establish and maintain control. The only reason that I brought up my personal opinion at all was to demonstrate that despite my own beliefs, I can accept that others do not share my views. I am perfectly fine with that. I do not wish to convert anyone to my way of thinking. Why would any female dominant care what I think? If LadyPact were to say that she doesn't accept the idea of male dominants, I would simply agree to disagree. I could participate in intelligent discussion, if prompted, but at the end of the day, she is entitled to her opinion. And that was the REAL point that I was making.

WarMachine904 -> RE: Let's see if we can keep this one civilized... (8/17/2013 10:56:30 AM)
ChatteParfaitt, Yes I was in the military, but no I never had any female superior officers. I served in a combat arms MOS, and until just recently women were prohibited from serving in these positions.

WarMachine904 -> RE: Let's see if we can keep this one civilized... (8/17/2013 11:01:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt quote: No it isn't my penis that makes me Dominant. It is my need for control. You and I have a very different definition of dominance. Subs 'need' dominance, doms exert it. The best ones make it look transparent. If you take that a step further, the definition is the same. You say doms exert it. Yes, but why? Because they have nothing else to do? Why do you think that doms exert control?

WarMachine904 -> RE: Let's see if we can keep this one civilized... (8/17/2013 11:41:16 AM)
Jeff, Further reflection on your question caused me to realize that my beliefs on what is or isn't dominant stems from my own beliefs on the natural order of things, religion, my own experiences, and the manner in which I was raised. That is not to say that I believe a man is superior to a woman. I just believe they are two different pieces to a puzzle, that together make a complete picture. When you start switching the pieces around, they no longer fit together to make the same picture. Again, these are my own beliefs and not intended to ruffle the feathers of anyone who may or may not have a different set of beliefs.

WarMachine904 -> RE: Let's see if we can keep this one civilized... (8/17/2013 11:47:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact No. What you believe doesn't affect Me one bit. It won't change a damn thing. I don't come to forums to help Me understand My Dominance, or to question those of others. I have no reason to "school" you. If you were to open up your world enough to see outside or yourself, others would do that for you. Such debates are silly and foolish. Sooner or later, you WILL find yourself dealing with a Dominant woman and the crow on your plate will not suit your taste. It may be ten days or ten years from now, but I assure you that it will happen. To steal the line from the movie, it is hard to fill a cup that is already full. You just haven't realized yet that your cup is empty. Excellent point. So tell me then. What causes you to identify yourself as a dominant?

LadyPact -> RE: Let's see if we can keep this one civilized... (8/17/2013 1:51:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WarMachine904 Excellent point. So tell me then. What causes you to identify yourself as a dominant? Believe it or not, I like power, authority, and control. Just like you.

WarMachine904 -> RE: Let's see if we can keep this one civilized... (8/17/2013 2:11:35 PM)
Exactly. It's not that I don't comprehend the qualities that makes one dominant, I just find them to be masculine qualities. Just as I see submission as a feminine quality. I was not suggesting by any stretch, that you are not legitimately a female dominant. You can be whatever you choose to be, or more importantly whatever you truly are. But what everyone seems to continue to miss is the fact that the ONLY reason I stated my belief was to demonstrate that it is possible to have intelligent discourse with someone who has beliefs that are completely contradictory to my own, without resorting to the kindergarten antics that go on here. And honestly I think that the posters that insist that their position is absolute, and must be mandated on others, are really insecure in their own beliefs. I find all this "You're not a true (insert whatever you like)" mentality is laughable. I do however find intelligent discussion to be stimulating and insightful.

evesgrden -> RE: Let's see if we can keep this one civilized... (8/17/2013 2:54:57 PM)
quote: Personally, I object to the idea of a male sub or a female dominant. I can't understand how either can exist. To me it is like a parallel universe. Well that's really odd coming from a military man. If you want to see serious submission in action, check out the military. They have it down to a science. You became a male sub the second you signed up. No way I'd join the military. Be told what to do all the time? When to eat when to sleep? When to talk, if I'm at liberty to talk? No friggin way. Would I be a civilian who provides service to the military? Sure. Would I give my life for my country? Yes. If you're in the military, you're submissive. I don't get off on the power and control (well in play etc I do) but outside the bedroom, I just am in control. I make good decisions. It's not that i'm brilliant by a long shot. I'm just pretty objective with respect to what I know, what I don't know and how to weigh out pros and cons, cost of errors and look at the bigger picture. Power is handed to me and I'll delegate it back or elsewhere if there's someone who can make an equal or better decision. So it's who I just find I am. Perhaps as you mature and broaden your horizons you will be able to understand how this exists without being in a parallel universe.

DesFIP -> RE: Let's see if we can keep this one civilized... (8/17/2013 2:59:15 PM)
@WM; I'll bite. When was the last time you ordered your mother around? If she asks you for something, do you hasten to do it or do you tell her no way, because you don't submit to women? Because if you do what she says, even to changing a high light bulb, then you submit to her.

Lucylastic -> RE: Let's see if we can keep this one civilized... (8/17/2013 3:10:58 PM)
Anyone that cant comprehend that females enjoy dominance and control, then they dont comprehend dominance and control. Maybe physically but certainly not mentally. Just my two cents in an effort to keep it civilised

LadyPact -> RE: Let's see if we can keep this one civilized... (8/17/2013 3:14:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WarMachine904 Exactly. It's not that I don't comprehend the qualities that makes one dominant, I just find them to be masculine qualities. Just as I see submission as a feminine quality. I was not suggesting by any stretch, that you are not legitimately a female dominant. You can be whatever you choose to be, or more importantly whatever you truly are. But what everyone seems to continue to miss is the fact that the ONLY reason I stated my belief was to demonstrate that it is possible to have intelligent discourse with someone who has beliefs that are completely contradictory to my own, without resorting to the kindergarten antics that go on here. And honestly I think that the posters that insist that their position is absolute, and must be mandated on others, are really insecure in their own beliefs. I find all this "You're not a true (insert whatever you like)" mentality is laughable. I do however find intelligent discussion to be stimulating and insightful. Well, we're not insecure. See, a bunch of us have been where you are and we remember how silly we were then, so that makes us laugh when we see it again. Hey, back in the day, I was an asshole. I'm a leather chick from way back and I spouted stupid shit from time to time. I grew up. You will, too.

WarMachine904 -> RE: Let's see if we can keep this one civilized... (8/17/2013 3:39:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: evesgrden quote: Personally, I object to the idea of a male sub or a female dominant. I can't understand how either can exist. To me it is like a parallel universe. Well that's really odd coming from a military man. If you want to see serious submission in action, check out the military. They have it down to a science. You became a male sub the second you signed up. No way I'd join the military. Be told what to do all the time? When to eat when to sleep? When to talk, if I'm at liberty to talk? No friggin way. Would I be a civilian who provides service to the military? Sure. Would I give my life for my country? Yes. If you're in the military, you're submissive. I don't get off on the power and control (well in play etc I do) but outside the bedroom, I just am in control. I make good decisions. It's not that i'm brilliant by a long shot. I'm just pretty objective with respect to what I know, what I don't know and how to weigh out pros and cons, cost of errors and look at the bigger picture. Power is handed to me and I'll delegate it back or elsewhere if there's someone who can make an equal or better decision. So it's who I just find I am. Perhaps as you mature and broaden your horizons you will be able to understand how this exists without being in a parallel universe. Using your logic and example, EVERYONE is a sub including you. Do you adhere to any rules or laws whatsoever? Of course you do. Otherwise you would wind up in prison. Then you submit to the authority of the government just as everyone does. Nice try, but the argument isn't really applicable.

evesgrden -> RE: Let's see if we can keep this one civilized... (8/17/2013 3:48:12 PM)
quote: Using your logic and example, EVERYONE is a sub including you. Nope. You sought out the military. Doesn't make you bad. Doesn't make you weak. It merely makes it clear that men can easily be submissive. You couldn't get your head around the concept, yet you yourself actively pursued submissioin. This doesn't mean you're not a dominant in your personal intimate relationship. It just means you really can consider men being submissive; all you have to do is look in the mirror and recall how many times the words "Yes Sir" came out of your mouth. Submission is not about weakness and Dominance is not about the pursuit of pleasure. It's a hierarchy. Nothing mystical or magical or gender based abut it.

Toysinbabeland -> RE: Let's see if we can keep this one civilized... (8/17/2013 3:49:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt quote: No it isn't my penis that makes me Dominant. It is my need for control. You and I have a very different definition of dominance. Subs 'need' dominance, doms exert it. The best ones make it look transparent. Well put Chatte

WarMachine904 -> RE: Let's see if we can keep this one civilized... (8/17/2013 3:50:03 PM)
And furthermore I didn't say that it did not exist. I said that I don't comprehend it. I repeatedly explained why that is. Call it old fashioned upbringing or whatever. But it is what it is.

WarMachine904 -> RE: Let's see if we can keep this one civilized... (8/17/2013 3:57:29 PM)
Evesgrden, I will respectfully agree to disagree with your analogy. That's like saying that once you realized that there were laws in this country, and you chose to keep living here, you chose to be submissive. But I do appreciate your input and perspective.

njlauren -> RE: Let's see if we can keep this one civilized... (8/17/2013 4:05:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WarMachine904 Although I see your point, it isn't entirely true. Personally, I object to the idea of a male sub or a female dominant. I can't understand how either can exist. To me it is like a parallel universe. HOWEVER, I was also raised with enough class, and have enough life experience to accept that not everyone share's my view, and I am perfectly fine with that. I will not tell a female Domme that she is not a "true" dominant, or tell a male sub that he should not allow a woman to control him. Why? Because everyone is entitled to live as they wish, call themselves whatever they choose, and exercise their right to free speech regardless of what I think. The exception being that by exercising those freedoms you infringe upon another's ability to exercise their freedoms. If asked my opinion, I will give it. If I believe that I have a relevant thought to share in a discussion, I will share it. When you reply, and tell me that although you can appreciate my view, but that you don't agree, I will accept it. Not try to convert you to my way of thinking. It's really about respect and tolerance for others at the end of the day. What right do you have to object to a male sub or a female dominant, or a switch or whatever? Who put you in that position to object? You as a male dominant may not be able to see or understand it, but object to it? That is taking a right onto yourself you don't have. This is exactly what ypu decried in others, the idea of being right and proper and telling others what they should do. Societally for years what you are saying has been the norm, but that is a cultural artifact, not reality. Being dominant or submissive is who someone is, or how they id, and you, or anyone else, has no right to object to that, because it is you deciding what is real for them, and that is horse shit.

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