RE: What do *YOU* think about cheaters? And why? (Full Version)

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tj444 -> RE: What do *YOU* think about cheaters? And why? (8/16/2013 3:31:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: wiermen

Lying, cheating, subterfuge etc etc is all part of human nature.
An awful lot of people get their sexual kicks out of living double lives

look dude.. this is not the P & R forum and we aren't talking about politics here, ok??? [:D]




Missokyst -> RE: What do *YOU* think about cheaters? And why? (8/16/2013 4:39:32 PM)

This is it for me, dignity. Cheating does not offer the other party the dignity of making an informed decision.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sheela22
What really hurt me the most was the fact that he lied to me. If he had dignity to to break up with me first I would have left peacefully! hell, if he was at least honest with me, I would have consider it (again ! under right circumstances, not just sleeping with random people). To me the lying part hurt more than the act it self..





Missokyst -> RE: What do *YOU* think about cheaters? And why? (8/16/2013 4:54:00 PM)

heh...
Actually I have considered this aspect and I have narrowed it down to one thing. I am a cutter who no longer cuts. Instead I examine the why's and let them spill blood rather than let them fester as when I was not allowed to feel. Freaks people out, but it has also speaks to people who cannot express. I am fine with it. If I ever wrote down my life entirely it would be gut wrenching. lol but frankly that is more masochism than even I could stand.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

You ask a question, and Missokyst just opens a vein for you.








Aynne88 -> RE: What do *YOU* think about cheaters? And why? (8/16/2013 7:35:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida


quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

I truly think that when you cheat, you're saying that your orgasm is more important than the well being of the person that you've made a vow to.

I'll start by saying I cheated on my abusive ex husband and it had nothing at all to do with an orgasm.

I don't support or condone cheating, but I understand why it happens. Because of the strength and self love I've come to know, as well as my vow to myself to live an honest life, I will not ever cheat again. But I was in a much different emotionally fucked up place back then, and I did.

So to answer the OP, what do I think of cheaters? I think they are trying to mask their unhappiness, and I hope they figure things out and stop hurting others as well as themselves.

Haven't read the thread past this point but that comment stood out to me and I wanted to post to it. My former cheating had nothing to do with orgasms and everything to do with a very poor attempt to fill a very big gap within myself. Consequently, cheating only made that gap bigger.




So perfectly said and I agree. Been there and thank god worked through it with a lot of pain and honest talks, I was the cheater, and now am back with my husband and he is amazingly one of those men that doesn't drag it up non stop and we will celebrate 25 years in October. I was a selfish unaware uncaring fool. I am grateful as hell we made it through this.




Silentrunner26 -> RE: What do *YOU* think about cheaters? And why? (8/16/2013 8:38:41 PM)

I have been cheated on many times . It got to the point with my last wife I just stopped caring and left .
I lost so much over her need to do anyone she met .
If you have to lie about what your doing then you need to leave the one your with and just stay single .




AlluraVogue -> RE: What do *YOU* think about cheaters? And why? (8/16/2013 9:11:09 PM)

Lying is lying, whether you do it with your genitals or not.

Everyone has their "reasons" for lying, but I agree...it's a character conflict where you're not ready to be honest with yourself or others, and thusly should probably reconsider having ANY type of relationship, not just a sexual one, until you're ready to be with someone in an honest fashion.

I've cheated and been cheated on. All I know is it ends miserably for all involved because you can never truly be yourself around anyone and you're always worried about being caught. Sure, part of the thrill is the excitement of "what if I get caught" but I've learned these days I can get my cheap thrills solo.




pissdoll -> RE: What do *YOU* think about cheaters? And why? (8/16/2013 9:21:54 PM)

cloudboy, i have always held you in high esteem...and your post here doesn't change that.

i've learned through experience that life isn't black and white.

about five years ago, a female friend of mine tried to use me as an alibi for her affair (without even the courtesy of telling me first). she had four sons under 10 years old. she HAD to keep trying for girls despite living in a one bedroom apartment as a stay-at-home mom while her husband with no college degree worked his ass off. we all warned her that she needed to slow down on the baby making, but no one could tell her anything. suddenly, having four boys at home all day was more than she bargained for and she started running around town. the neighborhood gossip was that she even left the four year old and one year old home alone one day and the four year old called 911. so one day when her husband asked me how our dinner was the night before, and i told him honestly that i hadn't spoken to her in over a week and that he should figure out what was really going on.

three years ago i worked with a woman who was a real sad sack. she had three kids with her husband who was obese and rarely showered. i actually threw up in my mouth a couple times when he was close to me at office parties because the stench was unbearable. he refused to work even though she didn't make enough to scrape by. they lived in an apartment owned by her parents. he was a jerk to her and the kids. her parents totally enabled him (i'll never understand why) and her mother even told her that if she left him, they'd move him into the apartment next to her. she was trapped and saw no way out. she was depressed beyond belief and went through periods of being suicidal. self-esteem was non-existent. all of a sudden, she started talking to a guy she knew from high school on facebook. i actually saw her smile. she began to dress nicely, style her hair, attempt to look nice. she met him and they had sex once. yeah...what she did was wrong. yeah yeah yeah. blah blah blah. she got one little sliver of happiness in an otherwise dreary, horrible life and i don't blame her one single bit.

i also won't blame one of my best friends if he finally gets around to cheating on his wife. she's a major alcoholic and a coke addict. the coke he didn't know about until they married. the alcoholism was in recovery while they dated and were engaged. her addictions, along with chronic marijuana use and the 50 lbs she has gained since the wedding (from overeating, not babies) have KILLED her sex drive. she's bluntly told him he's not going to get laid. EVER. he goes to al-anon and has "detached with love." he still loves her with all his heart and holds out hope that she will once again seek recovery. he refuses to leave her while she's down, but it's heartbreaking how lonely he is. she makes him feel like he is the least important person in her life. she's a nice lady when she's sober, and i have a lot of sympathy for the really bad stuff that has gone down since her childhood, but the second she gets loaded (every day, almost), she's selfish and unloving.




njlauren -> RE: What do *YOU* think about cheaters? And why? (8/16/2013 10:02:43 PM)

One of the problems with condemning cheating broad based is it doesn't take into account context, about what was going on and so forth. For the record, I totally agree that cheating on a spouse is not a desirable thing, and when it is something like a husband or wife who thrills in cheating itself, who gets on a high for cheating and getting away with it, who is out for the sheer lust of it, I find it pretty hard to swallow.

But there also are extenuating circumstances, where it is very easy to judge but you don't know all the details. My spouse was severely sexually abused as a child, and it had a big impact on our sex life, we have known each other since college (now 30 years or so), and we never had much of a sex life, and the abuse (which was unknown, she literally had buried it) got in the way....I didn't cheat, but in a sense I did, I lived in my head, fantasized, etc.......because it wasn't there. I loved my spouse then and still do, maybe even more so, but what about those cases? I didn't go all the way in large part because I knew it would come between us, that one of the things I know with cheating is the cheater puts up walls, out of guilt and also trying to keep from letting the cat out of the bag, and it makes it worse....but I also can understand that.

I have known women who loved their husbands, but because of stress or other things he was emotionally distant, and the affair was more about emotional interaction then sex.

Then, too, what about when you have something like a spouse becomes ill and is bedridden, or with a degenerative disease like MS? The pianist/conductor Daniel Barenboim was married to the cellist Jacqueline Du Pre, who got MS in her late 20's, and went downhill rapidly (she died in her early 40's)...for the last years of her life she was basically a total invalid, and he had found another woman; he remained married to Jacqueline and took care of her, was with her, but he found what he obviously couldn't do at home, and he was faced with watching his wife die horribly...I know many would judge it, but I could not sit there and categorize him with the jerk off traders I know who have the wife and kids at home and are banging everything on the island of manhattan, not giving a crap (the really sad part is many of them are married to women whom I hate, they are beautiful and intelligent and really nice people,and did I say beautiful?)...I also have known people who struggled with their identity, who really loved their spouses but also found themselves wrestling with their sexuality or gender, and sex with others could be part of that, it is agonizing, and while it is very easy to say they should tell their spouse and break up, it may not be that easy.

It isn't so much that I condone cheating, it is that I understand the reasons are complex and that the 'simple' solution often isn't. That said, I am the first person when someone talks about possibly cheating, to point out to them the consequences, the kind of harm it will do, that if their relationship is rocky it will make it worse, and that if they are cheating to make up for something lacking, to work with their spouse to see what can be done to address it. People think they get away with it, but they don't, it ends up richocheting back and there is real harm.




metamorfosis -> RE: What do *YOU* think about cheaters? And why? (8/16/2013 10:39:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt
I'm defining a cheater as someone who has agreed to be in a monogamous relationship and who lies to his/her spouse or partner or girl/boyfriend about who they have sex with. I am also including those who go behind the person's back and though they don't tell outright lies, they lie by omission.


By that definition I've never cheated, but I once had an affair with a married man. He lived with his wife and two kids. He and his wife were estranged and didn't sleep together or even speak to each other. He knew she had boyfriends, although they didn't talk about it. He wanted to get a divorce but his kids didn't want him to, and I don't think the wife could have supported herself very well on her own. Neither of them spoke English. I was the first person he'd had sex with in a long time.

I felt okay having the affair because I didn't consider theirs to be a real marriage. But I wouldn't do it now. Firstly, because as I get older I'm less inclined put that kind of faith in what other people tell me. Although the guy was probably telling the truth, I can't absolutely know it. Secondly, because it's too much like enabling. It really is better for all involved if they clear the air rather than going behind each others backs. Just rip the bandaid off, it hurts less than dragging things out.

I think this is a message board, and people are entitled to feel strongly about this and other issues. They are entitled to express themselves strongly, especially when their opinions (however strong) don't violate TOS and are related to the subject of a thread. I think to post at all is to expose your ideas to the judgement and censure of others, and that this is true for everyone who posts on a thread. Not just the OP, nor just the people contending with the OP, nor just the people in sympathy with the OP, but everyone who posts an opinion at all should be prepared to have their opinion judged and disagreed with.

I also think that however strongly a person feels, they should still be willing to consider a question from their opponent's point of view, and to examine why they've made any assumptions that they themselves did. Very often, there is more than one valid point of view. Frequently, posters make questionable assumptions. Lastly, anyone who has an extreme emotional reaction to something that happens here ought to be as willing to examine the internal reason for their response as to condemn another person for inspiring it. And, yes, that includes me.




metamorfosis -> RE: What do *YOU* think about cheaters? And why? (8/17/2013 2:08:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
Other topics we might consider:

What do you think about burglars? You know, people who break into others' homes, not their own, to steal stuff?

What do you think about illegal aliens, you know, people who cross the border and enter the USA without permission, or who overstay their visas and don't leave when they're supposed to?

What do you think about arsonists? You know, guys who set shit on fire either for kicks or to collect the insurance money?

What do you think about trolls, budd-in-skys, liars, squatters, vulture capitalists, busy-bodies, terrorists, scam-artists, prostitutes, gold-diggers, absentee fathers who fail to pay child support, or drivers who blast their music too loud? Should we add findom's to this list, or would that be unfairly bigoted?

Yes, while we're at it, let's talk about something I am doing right and other people are doing wrong so I can feel even better about myself, all under the guise of defending honor, love, truth, fidelity, and the poor innocent victims of love gone menacingly and unfairly astray.

God, it's a shame we can't talk about general ethics on the BDSM board....

While we're at it, let's burn a Don Draper doll in effigy to salute the cause of real love, family values, marriage, and the wholesome, true American way.


I marvel that you can think you're guilty of anything less than that yourself, here. Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with a little good old fashioned self righteousness. It keeps the doctor away. But for god's sake own up to your own. It's ludicrous to decry other posters' self righteous one-true-wayism while making a post like this.




Politesub53 -> RE: What do *YOU* think about cheaters? And why? (8/17/2013 4:15:04 AM)

Some people cheat because they are unhappy with their partner, for whatever reason. If they stay married because of the children I dont consider that cowardly. It takes guts to stay in an unhappy relationship so the kids have two parents. (I am not speaking of cases where there is constant rows or any violence, just where the parents are no longer happy with each other.

I guess I am saying no one knows why anyone behaves as they do, unless one has walked in their shoes.





chatterbox24 -> RE: What do *YOU* think about cheaters? And why? (8/17/2013 4:41:31 AM)

Since I lived in that very unhappy place for a long time, I have compassion for the cheater. I do know some are just heartless people, who just basically enjoy getting some on the side, and may have a good husband or wife at home, and truly don't have an excuse at all. The place I was at, the lack was enormous, the emotional pain, the mental pain, even physical pain, the chaotic mess of living with an alcoholic was almost to much to bear. The wounds were deep, and I was looking for a life line. It wasn't the right thing to do but desperate lonely lost people do desperate lonely lost things. I would never recommend it, but it did save my marriage, if you can believe that craziness. It was a huge wake up call, not only for me but for him.




needlesandpins -> RE: What do *YOU* think about cheaters? And why? (8/17/2013 4:50:56 AM)

I tell you what, every cheater should walk a mile in the shoes of the person the hurt too. Staying together for the kids is all well and good so long as money that should be in the family isn't being spent on the piece on the side. if money is being spent elsewhere what the hell is the point of staying in the home. how do you explain to the kids as to why you don't share a bed with the other parent anymore, because I sure as hell wouldn't be letting my ex within my room let alone my bed.

staying in a relationship for the kids is a cop out. kids know when things aren't right, so have the guts to split and go your separate ways. having been a child in a family where there were affairs I can tell you that it's shit never knowing when it's all finally coming to a head and they split. people do their kids a huge disservice by assuming that they are stupid enough to not know when things aren't right.

I get that sex is just sex, so if one partner isn't wanting sex for whatever reason you should still talk it over with that person to see if it's alright for you to fuck someone else. if not have a want same as everyone else. for me it wasn't that he has sex with someone else because as swingers we had both done that. it's the emotional attachment given to that other person, the time, the effort that he wasn't making with me as well as the lies and the deceit. I didn't do anything to deserve what he put me through. he was a spineless twat that wanted everything while I had nothing

if you are so miserable in a relationship that you need to cheat then leave. grow a set and leave first.

needles




jlf1961 -> RE: What do *YOU* think about cheaters? And why? (8/17/2013 5:27:58 AM)

Well I have long thought that the old adultery laws (class two felony) should be enforced.

Here is my reason why.

Daughter from my first marriage and my son and his soon to be ex from the same marriage.

My son inherited his mother's fair skin and red hair. My daughter inherited her biological father's Hispanic traits.

And I call her my daughter because I was more of a father to her than her actual father.

[mod edit to remove picture of child]

[image]local://upfiles/622970/89DFE90399BC44F2A1FB3B484F4B0CEF.jpg[/image]




chatterbox24 -> RE: What do *YOU* think about cheaters? And why? (8/17/2013 5:28:44 AM)

I am sure in some situations, staying for the kids is a cop out. Every situation is different and if the marriage can be saved and be healthy again, then it is absolutely not a cop out. Is damage done during the rough patch? Unfortunately yes, but if the couple can work it out, the children benefit from it, keeping both their parents and everyone striving toward improvement and health.
Do you understand there are circumstances where speaking to a partner is very poor judgment? The individual is trying to escape from chaos temporarily, not create more whether right or wrong? Neither person is healthy or in a good place?
My husband forgave me, I forgave him, and we strive toward health restoration in the home for our kids. We rode the storm out and survived.
The majority of people having affairs are in pain, and desire gentle understanding, which is quite difficult to find. Tough love does not work. If makes angry dissatisfied people more angry and dissatisfied. My position is not to make others feel bad, but to truly try to understand and help them through their crisis. The cheater, and the cheated on.




ChatteParfaitt -> RE: What do *YOU* think about cheaters? And why? (8/17/2013 6:08:36 AM)

Thank you for another magnificent post, lauren.




ChatteParfaitt -> RE: What do *YOU* think about cheaters? And why? (8/17/2013 6:16:58 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24


The majority of people having affairs are in pain, and desire gentle understanding, which is quite difficult to find. Tough love does not work. If makes angry dissatisfied people more angry and dissatisfied. My position is not to make others feel bad, but to truly try to understand and help them through their crisis. The cheater, and the cheated on.


Although I do understand some might benefit from a gentler, kinder approach, isn't that as enabling? At least on some level?

I'll admit that cheating pushes a bad button in me. It's incredibly dishonest, causes a great deal of pain for all involved, and so rarely works out well for anyone. (Though this thread did cite some examples where it was helpful.)

For me, when you add cheating and poly it pushes that bad button down all the way and puts it on hold. I've heard the 'but I'm poly' excuse from far too many people caught cheating.

This thread is helping me to re-shape my knee-jerk response to cheaters.





Apocalypso -> RE: What do *YOU* think about cheaters? And why? (8/17/2013 6:19:19 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt
Doesn't it become your business if it effects you?


For me, that's what makes the difference. If I'm directly involved, obviously I care, simply because it is of relevance to my life. If it's a friend, I'll side with my friend, regardless of whether they're being cheated on or cheating.

But, in general, the situation on here is "person I don't know is cheating on someone I don't know with someone I don't know". That just doesn't matter to me enough for me to take a position on it.

This isn't so much "none of my business" as "I don't care enough". I find people interesting, but in a detached way. The vast majority of the human race aren't of concern to me, because I don't know them. I'm fully aware that I'm not someone who has a lot of empathy in most situations.




chatterbox24 -> RE: What do *YOU* think about cheaters? And why? (8/17/2013 6:33:04 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt


quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24


The majority of people having affairs are in pain, and desire gentle understanding, which is quite difficult to find. Tough love does not work. If makes angry dissatisfied people more angry and dissatisfied. My position is not to make others feel bad, but to truly try to understand and help them through their crisis. The cheater, and the cheated on.


Although I do understand some might benefit from a gentler, kinder approach, isn't that as enabling? At least on some level?

I'll admit that cheating pushes a bad button in me. It's incredibly dishonest, causes a great deal of pain for all involved, and so rarely works out well for anyone. (Though this thread did cite some examples where it was helpful.)

For me, when you add cheating and poly it pushes that bad button down all the way and puts it on hold. I've heard the 'but I'm poly' excuse from far too many people caught cheating.

This thread is helping me to re-shape my knee-jerk response to cheaters.




It is incredibly dishonesty and most people want to slap the person right up side the head. Right? lol. But with patience, love and compassion, even when these people are the last ones you want to give it too, they grow into having integrity and find it themselves. Usually we ask for advice, but keep doing what we do anyway, but love seems to heal pain, and through time if shown love, we will make the right decisions.
I understand this is a forum, and people will respond anyway they want and its their right too. I have went through a healing process, that has empowered in me to care for others suffering through love whether in person, or on the internet, etc. But it doesn't mean not giving them the full impact of what can happen if their journey remains the same.




ChatteParfaitt -> RE: What do *YOU* think about cheaters? And why? (8/17/2013 6:34:29 AM)

I agree with your position. Yes, I consider cheating to be an expression of major dishonesty. But there are myriads of ways humans express major dishonesty in their lives. And there are far too many of us for peoples' dishonesty to be anything other than a small blip on the personal radar.

Also, just to make it clear, I could care less who people have sex with. If you spent last weekend rolling around in a 30 person orgy, more power to you, as long as you practiced safe sex and were honest with your partners.

I would venture to guess that here in the US, where sex is still considered a dirty nasty secret by many, that we have more dishonest cheaters. It's hard to be honest about your sexuality when the cultural view is so biased.











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