Strange that this never hit the forum....

Strange that this never hit the forum.... (Full Version)

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jlf1961 -> Strange that this never hit the forum.... (8/24/2013 3:11:46 PM)
I waited a few days to see if anyone considered it worthy of discussion. So here is the story. A WWII decorated vet was waiting for his girlfriend in his car. Two teenagers came along and beat him to a pulp and robbed him. He died in the hospital. quote: Delbert Belton, WWII Vet, Beaten To Death By Teens A WWII veteran who fought at the Battle of Okinawa, where he took a bullet to the leg and continued fighting, was beaten to death by two teens Wednesday night. Delbert Belton, 88, from Spokane, Wash., was pronounced dead Thursday morning, KHQ reported. Two male teens pummeled Belton outside a pool hall in what police describe a random attack. "There was no indication that he would have known these people prior to the assault," Spokane Police Major Crimes Detective Lieutenant Mark Griffiths said. Belton, who friends affectionally called "Shorty," enjoyed playing pool and working on cars. Source Death penalty definitely. Having them die the same way would be better, and televised or in the civic center with every fucking teen thug with a conviction for assault forced to watch so they know what will happen to them.

dcnovice -> RE: Strange that this never hit the forum.... (8/24/2013 3:23:51 PM)
This was discussed quite a bit in the Bored in Oklahoma thread.

jlf1961 -> RE: Strange that this never hit the forum.... (8/24/2013 3:40:45 PM)
I felt it needed its own thread. Bored in Oklahoma deals with teens who decided to kill someone out of boredom, these guys picked this vet and targeted him for being old.

BamaD -> RE: Strange that this never hit the forum.... (8/24/2013 8:57:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 I felt it needed its own thread. Bored in Oklahoma deals with teens who decided to kill someone out of boredom, these guys picked this vet and targeted him for being old. Kirata came up with the term feral teenagers to describe these animals.

tazzygirl -> RE: Strange that this never hit the forum.... (8/24/2013 10:01:03 PM)
Hardly a new term http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1214549/Feral-youths-How-generation-violent-illiterate-young-men-living-outside-boundaries-civilised-society.html

SerWhiteTiger -> RE: Strange that this never hit the forum.... (8/24/2013 10:46:27 PM)
I'm going to assume that the point of the death penalty here is as a deterrent to others rather than as random vengeance? Why not kill their parents instead? That would be a much better deterrent, to be honest. Teenagers aren't really able to understand consequences well enough for the death penalty to be a valid deterrent, but parents are much more capable of understanding consequences and being motivated to do a better job of parenting. You know, assuming this whole motivation through fear of bloody consequences actually works on anyone.

BamaD -> RE: Strange that this never hit the forum.... (8/24/2013 10:49:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Hardly a new term http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1214549/Feral-youths-How-generation-violent-illiterate-young-men-living-outside-boundaries-civilised-society.html ok but I like it

TheHeretic -> RE: Strange that this never hit the forum.... (8/24/2013 11:56:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SerWhiteTiger You know, assuming this whole motivation through fear of bloody consequences actually works on anyone. The death penalty is not proven to be a deterrent against random crimes of violence, and while I believe an experiment in it for white collar and public corruption crimes might yield interesting results, it isn't an argument I make. The death penalty IS however, a foolproof method of preventing recidivism, and, for some crimes, is the only appropriate punishment. I'm not sure if that is the case here, but I suspect it's what the other poster was suggesting.

SerWhiteTiger -> RE: Strange that this never hit the forum.... (8/25/2013 12:41:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic quote: ORIGINAL: SerWhiteTiger You know, assuming this whole motivation through fear of bloody consequences actually works on anyone. The death penalty is not proven to be a deterrent against random crimes of violence, and while I believe an experiment in it for white collar and public corruption crimes might yield interesting results, it isn't an argument I make. The death penalty IS however, a foolproof method of preventing recidivism, and, for some crimes, is the only appropriate punishment. I'm not sure if that is the case here, but I suspect it's what the other poster was suggesting. I can't believe anyone would honestly suggest that children are so hopelessly gone that they must be extinguished. Also, he said to televise it to other children so that they learn from it.

BamaD -> RE: Strange that this never hit the forum.... (8/25/2013 12:55:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SerWhiteTiger quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic quote: ORIGINAL: SerWhiteTiger You know, assuming this whole motivation through fear of bloody consequences actually works on anyone. The death penalty is not proven to be a deterrent against random crimes of violence, and while I believe an experiment in it for white collar and public corruption crimes might yield interesting results, it isn't an argument I make. The death penalty IS however, a foolproof method of preventing recidivism, and, for some crimes, is the only appropriate punishment. I'm not sure if that is the case here, but I suspect it's what the other poster was suggesting. I can't believe anyone would honestly suggest that children are so hopelessly gone that they must be extinguished. Also, he said to televise it to other children so that they learn from it. While what you say has merit something must be done to instill values. Not through criminal punishment so much as a restoration of values in society. When I was their age they would have been considered monsters now we hear how they are basically good kids who were turning their lives around. Parents need to be parents again. Schools need to discipline students. Society needs to highlight people who do things right, as it is the best way to get attention is to do something terrible. Killing an old man is "cool" Thrill killings are ok because other people don't matter. This will require more work than passing a couple of laws.

kdsub -> RE: Strange that this never hit the forum.... (8/25/2013 5:03:56 AM)
quote: I'm going to assume that the point of the death penalty here is as a deterrent to others I do understand the point of your post but the above statement is used over and over by anti-death penalty advocates as a reason against it. To me it is not a deterrent...and deterrent is not the reason for the death penalty. It is to remove from this earth a killer that could kill again. If they are dead no one will have to worry about them again. Butch

jlf1961 -> RE: Strange that this never hit the forum.... (8/25/2013 9:02:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SerWhiteTiger I can't believe anyone would honestly suggest that children are so hopelessly gone that they must be extinguished. Also, he said to televise it to other children so that they learn from it. Look, I worked in law enforcement, and I will say this, the penal system does nothing but warehouse the little bastards. It does not "teach them a lesson" nor does it rehabilitate. The percentage of violent youthful offenders that actually get their act together and change is almost negligible. And yes, I said televise it, or have every punk with a history of violence witness it in person. I am not saying it will cause them to repent, but it will show them what the fuck they have to look forward to. I am sick to death of people saying that these teenagers are just "misunderstood," or any other excuse. Besides, the death penalty is supported in the bible, for those christians against the death penalty. quote: Ecclesiastes 8:11 Because the sentence against an evil deed is not executed speedily, the heart of the children of man is fully set to do evil. Exodus 21:12 “Whoever strikes a man so that he dies shall be put to death. These gang bangers and street thugs are beyond redemption. You aint going to turn them around and set them on the road to being good, law abiding individuals. They are little more than animals, preying on the weak, sick and elderly. In other words they are predators, and predators of this sort do not change, they get worse. Solution is simple, eliminate the threat. And forget the cruel and unusual punishment crap, execute these animals in the most painful, torturous way possible.

TheHeretic -> RE: Strange that this never hit the forum.... (8/25/2013 11:01:29 AM)
Well, you are heading down paths I won't follow now, Jeff. Yes, they are predators, but we must never dehumanize them with the "animals" label. Yes, the process of the death penalty needs to be a ritual, and it should happen in way that can be seen, and understood for what it is, but there is no need for their removal from this life to be anything but quick and clean.

BamaD -> RE: Strange that this never hit the forum.... (8/25/2013 11:13:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic Well, you are heading down paths I won't follow now, Jeff. Yes, they are predators, but we must never dehumanize them with the "animals" label. Yes, the process of the death penalty needs to be a ritual, and it should happen in way that can be seen, and understood for what it is, but there is no need for their removal from this life to be anything but quick and clean. Un fortunately they have earned the label of animals, unless you prefer what I consider the more accurate term of monsters.

DsBound -> RE: Strange that this never hit the forum.... (8/25/2013 11:19:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 I waited a few days to see if anyone considered it worthy of discussion. So here is the story. A WWII decorated vet was waiting for his girlfriend in his car. Two teenagers came along and beat him to a pulp and robbed him. He died in the hospital. quote: Delbert Belton, WWII Vet, Beaten To Death By Teens A WWII veteran who fought at the Battle of Okinawa, where he took a bullet to the leg and continued fighting, was beaten to death by two teens Wednesday night. Delbert Belton, 88, from Spokane, Wash., was pronounced dead Thursday morning, KHQ reported. Two male teens pummeled Belton outside a pool hall in what police describe a random attack. "There was no indication that he would have known these people prior to the assault," Spokane Police Major Crimes Detective Lieutenant Mark Griffiths said. Belton, who friends affectionally called "Shorty," enjoyed playing pool and working on cars. Source Death penalty definitely. Having them die the same way would be better, and televised or in the civic center with every fucking teen thug with a conviction for assault forced to watch so they know what will happen to them. We live very close to Spokane and of course, it's all over locally as they searched for the 2nd teen. With that said, it was on the front page of Drudge report, which we check in with daily. That surprised me... however I was thankful to see it was getting attention. My heart goes out to Delberts family... so very sad.

dcnovice -> RE: Strange that this never hit the forum.... (8/25/2013 1:08:59 PM)
quote: it was on the front page of Drudge report, which we check in with daily. Always handy to know a new poster's info sources.

kdsub -> RE: Strange that this never hit the forum.... (8/25/2013 1:10:39 PM)
I’ve no sympathy for any killer…but I think mankind has evolved to where the social behavior that promotes survival has become hardwired in our brains. Much the same way as migrating animals can navigate...Otherwise the thought "murder" is naturally wrong, is in most every normal human from the time they can understand what it is. I think the time will come where science will be able to pinpoint a damaged area of the brain that short circuits this naturally acquired survival behavior. This short circuit, either physical or environmental, allows the anti-social lack of conscience that criminals of all types display to one degree or another. So they are damaged…but un-repairable goods that must be disposed of for the safety of innocents. Butch

DsBound -> RE: Strange that this never hit the forum.... (8/25/2013 1:37:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice quote: it was on the front page of Drudge report, which we check in with daily. Always handy to know a new poster's info sources. One of many sources, DC... :)

DsBound -> RE: Strange that this never hit the forum.... (8/25/2013 1:39:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub I’ve no sympathy for any killer…but I think mankind has evolved to where the social behavior that promotes survival has become hardwired in our brains. Much the same way as migrating animals can navigate...Otherwise the thought "murder" is naturally wrong is in most every normal human from the time they can understand what it is. I think the time will come where science will be able to pinpoint a damaged area of the brain that short circuits this naturally acquired survival behavior. This short circuit, either physical or environmental, allows the anti-social lack of conscience that criminals of all types display to one degree or another. So they are damaged…but un-repairable goods that must be disposed of for the safety of innocents. Butch That may be Butch... I'd like to believe that people are inherently good but some days it's difficult at best.

WebWanderer -> RE: Strange that this never hit the forum.... (8/25/2013 1:51:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub I’ve no sympathy for any killer…but I think mankind has evolved to where the social behavior that promotes survival has become hardwired in our brains. Citation needed. Unless everyone suddenly up and evolved overnight, X-Men style, and I didn't get the memo, I can cite more than a few examples to the contrary from recent history. quote: I think the time will come where science will be able to pinpoint a damaged area of the brain that short circuits this naturally acquired survival behavior. Assuming that humans have already evolved into fuzzy peace-loving creatures and assuming that cruelty is a bug and not a feature and assuming that such a bug could be found and assuming it could be fixed, let's say that happens about 150 years from now. Kudos to the creepy brain-tweaking people of the future. What do we do here and now, though?

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